Pride

[Pigalo]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne;
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside.

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside.

[Bloggsworth]

Shown?

[Pigalo]

Right. Good catch.

[heslopian]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known I love the phrase "memory's dawn"; it conveys so much in such a subtle way.
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell "Guile of joy" is another neat phrase, though I'd question how something abstract like "guile" can be "shone". I'm sure that's just me nit-picking though.
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne; The word "throne" feels like it was added to force an awkward rhyme with "alone". The metaphor in this line doesn't feel natural.
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. The rhyme of "sighed" and "inside" IS natural, I think, and it sounds very good.

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside. This is an excellent last verse, not least because the rhythm and rhymes are absolutely perfectly constructed.

My one big problem with the poem is that the narrator seems a little bit self-absorbed and narcissistic; that could be rectified by talking more about his relationships to the world and people around him, even if they are marked by awkwardness and isolation. Though, as this poem is called Pride, maybe the narcissism was intentional. All critique is JMHO, and thank you for the read

[billy]

hi pigalo....great nic

i see you left feedback elsewhere, great start
a constant meter may help with the flow of the poem and the end rhymes to work better. but on the whole it's got a fair bit of good in it.

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone shown?
The guile of joy; but I could not quell why not a period?
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne; i like how this reinforces the line above, without making it redundant.
While others danced, I watched and sighed; struggling to see what this line has to do with pride, feels more like jealousy
And all I loved I loved inside.

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside. if you use a line as a refrain, or a style of line as a refrain it usually works better if you have it in each stanza; loved/loved, fought/fought. a similar line would have added continuity throughout the poem. ( i did like the broken refrains, you have at play)

[Pigalo]

Heslopian, thanks for comments. I note your take on "throne" -- perhaps not right. I also appreciate the kind words, and your overall assessment--moments felt narcissistic to me, also, and I tried to tone it down, but I value that comment.

billy, not clear on "period": as in mean replacing semicolon? Thanks for other feedback as well. Yes, stanza 2, line 3 not about pride.

Thanks all for great insights. Great forum!

[billy]

yes that's what i mean.

[tectak]

PRIDE
Hi pigalo,
Hmmm. Pride. I will take care here!
From memory's dawn I have known [ This is a busted metaphor. The trouble is it sounds good ( is that enough?)but then something starts to niggle. It is the niggle that busts the metaphor because a metaphor should clarify. Got it. If "memories dawn" is the "start" of memory then you have no recall from before that point...yes? What you are trying to say is " For as long as I can remember" in a less cliched and more poetic way. Commendable in intent and probably good enough but chronologically confusing. I offer no alternative so you must be close
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone no comment required on spelling
The guile of joy; but I could not quellnested colons and semi colons are enigmatic. Drop the line capitalising because it makes you look as if you do not know when to capitalise and when not.
These passions far too strong to tell. Dreadful line. The force is with you.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne; Colonic evacuation. Lucky you were on your throne. Again, forced...laxative was needed.
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. This sounds like a refrain came from somewhere and caught you by surprise...but you liked it and you will use it again...what a shame the refrain came late.

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside. I could not fail to disagree with you less here. I cannot untangle it...but I do not think you can, either. Shit happens. When refrains are a pain...refrain.

[b] Not solid. You are relying too much on you belief in your abilty to carry you through a piece from beginning to end, without planning. This only rarely works. If you write whilst pissed you may think you have written a masterpiece...then you sober up. IAM NOT SAYING YOU WERE PISSED WHEN YOU WROTE THIS....just that this is how I write when I am pissed
The best way I can describe your thinking is burgeoning. You seem to have way too much to say and want it all to come out quickly. Some nice thoughts ill-expressed. The "throne" rhyme was hysterical and lamentable at once. Just a re-read might do it....preferably as prose to hear the bell toll. Keep going.
Best,
tectak

[Pigalo]

What you are trying to say is " For as long as I can remember" in a less cliched and more poetic way. EXACTLY. COMPLAINT?

Dreadful line. CURIOUS WHY. COMPLAINT?

Colonic evacuation. Lucky you were on your throne. SADLY, A GOOD POINT! NEVER THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY.

For all I fought I fought inside. I could not fail to disagree with you less here. IF YOUR COMPLAINT EXTENDS TO MORE THAN THE REFRAIN, EXPLAIN?

The best way I can describe your thinking is burgeoning. I COULD NOT FAIL TO DISAGREE WITH YOU LESS. PLANNING AND STRUCTURE LONG LABORED OVER. JUST PREFER BREVITY. BUT ALSO I THINK MY PURPOSE MAY BE TOO UNCLEAR TO WARRANT YOUR RESPONSE.

YOUR FEEDBACK WAS MOST DIFFICULT AND MOST HELPFUL. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME.

[tectak]

What you are trying to say is " For as long as I can remember" in a less cliched and more poetic way. EXACTLY. COMPLAINT?It didn't work. It created a cliche were one did not need to be.

Dreadful line. CURIOUS WHY. COMPLAINT? forced rhyme...you wanna fight about it? It's hit-the-crit time

Colonic evacuation. Lucky you were on your throne. SADLY, A GOOD POINT! NEVER THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY.

For all I fought I fought inside. I could not fail to disagree with you less here. IF YOUR COMPLAINT EXTENDS TO MORE THAN THE REFRAIN, EXPLAIN? Christ, this is like the bloody inquisition. I cannot explain it...that is the problem.

The best way I can describe your thinking is burgeoning. I COULD NOT FAIL TO DISAGREE WITH YOU LESS. PLANNING AND STRUCTURE LONG LABORED OVER. JUST PREFER BREVITY. BUT ALSO I THINK MY PURPOSE MAY BE TOO UNCLEAR TO WARRANT YOUR RESPONSE. It's crit-the-crit time...sheesh! I was only trying to help. ...but I do agree about your purpose...I think....or not.

YOUR FEEDBACK WAS MOST DIFFICULT AND MOST HELPFUL. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME.

....well, I try at all times not to be too easy and too unhelpful but you have me confused with someone else. ...so don't shout at me.
Best,
tectak[/b]

[Ganman]

You've got a ways to go, I think. Use your poetic license a little more loosely- if we're being honest, some of this sounds really archaic. Learn to focus less on yourself and more on your subject, if you're looking for serious critique. If you want to just file these away, then that's fine, but when you bring something like this to a critical perspective, you want to remove the subject from the self, or at least to capture the self in an intriguing way.

Experiment with imagery a little more, not in this poem, but in general. I'd suggest putting this one away for now. Work on capturing objects rather than your own emotions. Read as much poetry as you can. The goal here is to be able to capture the self in an interesting and innovative manner.

Also, use artistic license a little less until you "really" know what you're doing with it. Here, you've used it, and the result sounds faux-Shakespearean, cliched.

Just practice, practice, practice. Take a few classes if you can. Refine your skill.

[Leanne]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell
These passions far too strong to tell. -- this stanza is a perfect example of forcing rhyme and mangling the language because of it. The way you intend this to read, I presume, is that the passions are too strong to talk about (or tell of). As it actually reads, it sounds as though the passions are keeping a stoic demeanour and not giving anything away.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne;
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. -- inside what? Inside self, or inside the house? This is unclear, but what is obvious is that the word choice is driven purely by rhyme. If a rhyme doesn't work perfectly, without sacrificing sense and meaning, find another rhyme.

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside. -- for a refrain to work, it really needs to be repeated in a regular manner. If you want to use this, that's fine, but it should appear at the end of every stanza or in some other discernible pattern

This poem would really benefit from regular meter and some greater thought into the rhymes. When rhyme is the most obvious thing about a poem, it's not working properly.

[tectak]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne;
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. AND FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS ALMOST PLAGIARISING OF E.A. POE FROM "ALONE",but not quite

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside.

[milo]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne;
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. AND FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS ALMOST PLAGIARISING OF E.A. POE FROM "ALONE",but not quite

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside.

It should be pointed out that referring or even directly copying a line from a famous poem is never considered plagiarism, but allusion. (Think "The Wastelands". For further research I suggest writing a Glosa or two.

milo

[Volaticus]

A lot in this poem reminds me of "Alone". Many of the words are the same, and some combinations of the words are very similar. I kind of like this idea. But I think many of the rhymes felt weak and forced.

[tectak]

PRIDE

From memory's dawn I have known
Feelings to be ploys; I was shone
The guile of joy; but I could not quell
These passions far too strong to tell.

In childhood I endured alone;
My counsel came from my own throne;
While others danced, I watched and sighed;
And all I loved I loved inside. AND FOR THE RECORD, THIS IS ALMOST PLAGIARISING OF E.A. POE FROM "ALONE",but not quite

When veterans returned with pride
I marked with shame how I denied
The wars I fought, the scars I hide--
For all I fought I fought inside.

It should be pointed out that referring or even directly copying a line from a famous poem is never considered plagiarism, but allusion. (Think "The Wastelands". For further research I suggest writing a Glosa or two.
milo

[b] Hence, almost Pedantic Polly.
Best,
tectak

[milo]

yah, I just want to reassure the peasants, not you.