Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish

[Card]

you attacked a member because you didn't like his feedback. keep your bullshit for those who'd believe you didn't. stop doing it and stop trolling peoples threads. it's not nice. i don't care if you stay or go, at present that's out of my control but do not attack another member in the poetry forums.

apart from that, by replying as you did you made yourself to look like a bully. i've had 4 mails form four separate people complaining of how brutish you were. this isn't open for discussion play nice or fuck off

and feel free to show this pm in public if you feel it will help any misplaced cause you think you have/admin

First of all, I did not attack anyone. If you were offended, I am sincerely sorry. It was not at all my intention. I am not here to troll, I am here because I love English.
I'll be honest, this seems really brutish to me, and I am actually hurt very much by this. I do bleed, you know.
But if he is backed up by other members that I have accidentally offended, then that gives him the right to treat me as strictly as he is. And I suppose some, if not most or all, of you think I did mean to attack someone.

That, as well as this now, is a result of me getting comfortable here. I thought I could share my opinion. Where I'm from, we're honest with others. I suppose I that is not appreciated here in the same way.

I was really glad I found this site earlier, but now I wish I hadn't. Few things have actually made me cry. This experience was one of those things.

I guess I'm writing this as a goodbye, since I owe it to you guys. I did have fun, and liked talking to y'all. But if being me both offended four (at least) people to the point of telling the site owner, and provoked this response from the owner, I have no right to stay here.

I do feel like this is an attack, to the point where I couldn't stay here if I wanted to. Billy said in the thread that even the owner cannot be as "brutish" as I was. If what I did seems worse to others than his seems to me, then I cannot possibly apologize enough, but I'll keep doing so. I am really sorry if I offended anyone, it was in no way my attention.

So, if there are any of you who still like me, I hope you'll at least tell me goodbye in spirit. To those who don't like me, I am so, so sorry if I've offended you, it was never my intention. I can't see it in my posts, but I can compare it to this response.
So before I leave I will take down the post. I only wish I could have stopped myself from... I don't know. From getting too comfortable, I guess. From misunderstanding people. If I can ever stop doing that.

So... Goodbye. Too bad we never go to do that religion thread, huh? But I guess I shouldn't have been the one in charge of making it, huh?

And I am eternally sorry for causing such offense. I honestly had no idea until I was able to measure it against Billy's response. I do wish you had told me though, so that I could have apologized for hurting anyone.

[brandontoh]

Just want to say that misunderstandings are rife, and I did clear mine with Card. I think it's as he said, he got too comfortable, and well, personally it's a problem of his tone in my case. From our PM exchanges, I did learn that he's just someone who's very fervent about the English language, but he may lack tact under certain circumstances. Although why he prefers adding "The" in front of his name, I don't know. Seems rather pompous, but maybe it's just me.

Card, I hope you don't mind me posting one of the PMs you sent me a few minutes ago. Really hope I can clear the air for you. You did offend me slightly, but we managed to clear it up. So it can be done. You seem dead set on leaving, and well, you're not a bad guy. Being willing to apologise makes you a man if anything. I just don't want anyone to villanise you over misunderstandings unfairly.

No, I cannot take pride in that.

Nor do I appreciate your sentiment that I am having an off day. I thought I could share my views there, but apparently I am wrong.

And it is that "Show, Don't Tell" rule that was pounded into my brain as well. And then I realized metaphors aren't really all that necessary, or helpful. Imagery is not as useful as we get told. It's just a thing writers can use to fill up pages.

I know imagining scenes helps the reader to, well, read the book. But they don't need to be constantly bombarded with descriptions. There is no more power in descriptive words. Painting flames on a car does not help it go faster, it just makes it more interesting.

Descriptions in verse are the same way. They might look rad, but they could be little more than distractions.
I see no reason for adding all these decals if someone just wants to see the car, you know what I mean?

What bugs me is when people see English as being a form, like a Mad-Libs sheet, or as something that comes with instructions.

English is not formulaic, it may be patterned, but it does amazing things we don't always expect. And, what I said I stand behind. I see English differently, and I feel strongly about it. It is not just a brush or canvas. It's not marble, with a sculpture inside. It's fluid, it's clay. Sure, it has some rules, like obeying gravity, but it can be shaped so easily! Yet it is even more: Language is art like no other! Isn't that so wonderful?

And I am sorry if my views offend you because it goes against what school taught you to write. I'm not attacking you guys. But I have contrary views, and this is legitimately how I feel.

[Yelleryella123]

Please take a breather - we are all adults here (I think)
Write a poem about how this makes you feel and then post it.

I don't like the site being flooded with negativity. Unless it is poetry.

[billy]

no one saying you should leave and no one holds grudges here

what i said to you, goes for everyone here including me. we are not the only people on the site. so yeah, take the breather yeller advises.

[Todd]

Yeah actually (we: mods, other admins, members) have come down on billy pretty hard from time to time. So, believe me no one is exempt. We try to be as light as possible, but step in when we feel we have to. People are passionate about things. Sometimes it gets personal and we misstep. All of us do it. We apologize, move on, and try to do better. I've read some of your opinions Card in parts I agree in parts I disagree. Might make for some good discussions in the proper forum. But I'm kind of with Yeller on this one: Breathe...

Everything will settle down if you let it. If this is goodbye than goodbye...nice meeting you. Hopefully, we can get beyond this point. I did a lot of acting after a performance we would get notes on what we messed up on, and I would suggest that you just take the note of correction as emotionlessly as you can and put it behind you.

[Leanne]

Bloody hell, if I left a forum every time someone took offense to something I'd said or disagreed with my opinion, I'd never be able to turn on the internet

Every time I argue with someone, I learn something. Sometimes that thing is just that the other person's a dick, but more often it's that there are many different viewpoints in this world and more than one can be right. I missed all the brouhaha but I doubt it was terminal. We don't hold grudges and we're not particularly noble, so if we can manage it so can others.

[Todd]

Bloody hell, if I left a forum every time someone took offense to something I'd said or disagreed with my opinion, I'd never be able to turn on the internet

Leanne: Facebook how am I doing today? Screw you Facebook you intrusive twit

Every time I argue with someone, I learn something. Sometimes that thing is just that the other person's a dick,

Why do I keep learning that lesson all the time? I'm ready for new lessons.

[Leanne]

I'm going to put that on my facebook status tomorrow

[Todd]

hahaha

[Card]

The problem isn't how harsh Billy is or isn't. The problem is that he's sort of right. I am the problem. Some of it is because who I am is that comment that offended people. I really like you people, so I don't want to upset anyone again, even if it is unintentional.

Second reason is because I am really passionate about English. This means I see it very differently than you guys do. For instance, I didn't realize you guys couldn't see poems the way I do, with individual personalities. To me, writings have a piece of themselves, a kind of mock soul. They don't feel, obviously, but they have different shapes, forms, even things like gender and race. All the labels we can put on people, I put on writing. I don't like it when it gets grouped together, variety is ignored.
And I cannot stand it when people attempt to create a "master race of poems." They don't realize it, but they aren't allowing those other poems to be there, to be unique.

When that went over Billy's head in the critique forum, that was when I started to realize I couldn't really explain it. I can't make you think the same way I do, and vice verse. Better that I don't just stir up more trouble. Because sure as snow stops in spring and summer, I'll try to help in the same way. And, of course, that'll offend once again.

So if I stay, I will stay out of critique and discussion. I might post in the "For Fun" board, or the "Misc" board though. Which includes input on those poems.
Better for everyone I just stay out of the workshop though.
I am still able to answer any grammar questions though, if anyone has a specific one to ask me.


And yeah, I took your advice, Yell. Wrote a really long rhyming poem. Feel better now.

[tectak]

The problem isn't how harsh Billy is or isn't. The problem is that he's sort of right. I am the problem. Some of it is because who I am is that comment that offended people. I really like you people, so I don't want to upset anyone again, even if it is unintentional.

Second reason is because I am really passionate about English. This means I see it very differently than you guys do. For instance, I didn't realize you guys couldn't see poems the way I do, with individual personalities. To me, writings have a piece of themselves, a kind of mock soul. They don't feel, obviously, but they have different shapes, forms, even things like gender and race. All the labels we can put on people, I put on writing. I don't like it when it gets grouped together, variety is ignored.
And I cannot stand it when people attempt to create a "master race of poems." They don't realize it, but they aren't allowing those other poems to be there, to be unique.

When that went over Billy's head in the critique forum, that was when I started to realize I couldn't really explain it. I can't make you think the same way I do, and vice verse. Better that I don't just stir up more trouble. Because sure as snow stops in spring and summer, I'll try to help in the same way. And, of course, that'll offend once again.

So if I stay, I will stay out of critique and discussion. I might post in the "For Fun" board, or the "Misc" board though. Which includes input on those poems.
Better for everyone I just stay out of the workshop though.
I am still able to answer any grammar questions though, if anyone has a specific one to ask me.


And yeah, I took your advice, Yell. Wrote a really long rhyming poem. Feel better now.

That went well, I thought.
tectak

[doolasmind#11]

I am so confused

[Card]

I am so confused

Basically, I got upset and accidentally offended people, had a small fight with Billy, then wrote a poem for about five hours.
Pretty good day, except for the part where I didn't sleep.

[doolasmind#11]

lol i'd say so i mean if you aren't fighting and writing then what the hell else are you doing haha

[Card]

I'm writing, still. I'm not going to really suggest things though. Or ask for feedback.

Basically... I am staying out of critique. A lot of what I do is just for fun anyway though.

[doolasmind#11]

if you aren't fighting and writing then what the hell else are you doing haha

was not directed at you personally it was a statement in general. i feel like i have to get my politician pants on in these threads lol

[rowens]

Poets; well lots of people, but I'll just say people, because I've known lots that wouldn't want to be called poets: are very emotional and sometimes morbidly self-conscious. In fact, like someone said about being paranoid, that goes along with raging emotions. I always feel like I'm being attacked, if the sun goes behind a cloud, my mood changes drastically. Somebody that hasn't spoke to me in a while calls and asks: "What's you been up to?"; and I start thinking: "Hmm this person must have it in for me..."

And then I can find clues everywhere to prove that they are trying to mess me over. When they really aren't.

And it's not really me that's thinking it; it's reactions that my brain and emotions are conjuring up.


So I think that some people are constantly on the guard. For reasons that I just talked about; or because they're used to being misunderstood or messed with: so they get used to having an antagonistic position.

And that's not always a bad thing.

[Leanne]

Second reason is because I am really passionate about English. This means I see it very differently than you guys do. For instance, I didn't realize you guys couldn't see poems the way I do, with individual personalities. To me, writings have a piece of themselves, a kind of mock soul. They don't feel, obviously, but they have different shapes, forms, even things like gender and race. All the labels we can put on people, I put on writing. I don't like it when it gets grouped together, variety is ignored.

Now, if I were so inclined, I could easily take offense to this statement. You make sweeping generalisations that I choose to laugh off at this point, because you are young. I won't bother to go into detail about how this could be taken as an insult to people who have spent more than twenty years post-high school immersed in the English language as writers, teachers and editors. I don't think there's any need to have people show their credentials; however, your assumptions regarding the level of English knowledge and ability of many of the people on these boards are considerably off-base.

Of course, since I have decided to take no offense (and have even chosen to use the American spelling of the word which, in my own country, could be considered offensive and subject to correction ), none of this is especially pertinent. It merely is.

---

I always feel like I'm being attacked, if the sun goes behind a cloud, my mood changes drastically.

Rowen, I spoke to the sun, he says you're a dick and it's all your fault

[Jagger Cyde]

I seem to have missed what caused this all. However you come off as you are talking down to us, which is very offensive. You speak like you know/care more about language and poetry than we do, but how do you know that? I like to think we are all equally passionate, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Please, put yourself on the same level as everyone else and I can assure you many problems will be fixed

You are no more special than I am, and I am no more special than you are.

[rowens]

Rowen, I spoke to the sun, he says you're a dick and it's all your fault

Now I'm going to be sitting here for a while having private conversations with that Smiley. Trying to find out what he really means by that expression it's making.

And if a girl uses a smilely, doesn't that mean the smilely is a girl? And which one of these spellings of smiley is correct?