“So, The Wind Blows?”

[Erthona]

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind.

©2012 —Erthona

Note. The title is taken from the title of a book with more or less the same name "Where the Wind Blows".. It was (the book) a satirical look at the advice the government had given people in the event of a nuclear war, advice that as the book points out was for the most part nonsense. However, the idea of the wind blowing just means that trouble is coming (although in the title of this poem, it also works as a double entendre) probably because the wind that proceeds the leading edge of a frontal system, and following shortly behind it would probably be one of the worst storms of the season. Worst, If for no other reason that the that leading edge could gain rotation and start throwing off tornados, as well as it generally being one of the storms with the highest lighten potential. Personally, I didn’t think this needed explaining, as it is a fairly well know cultural idiom. However, I have been fooled before. The poem on the whole however is not written idiomatically, but rather as archetypal.
Oh, and yes, it was purposeful using "unnoted" rather than "unnoticed".

[tectak]

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind.

©2012 —Erthona

Note. The title is taken from the title of a book with more or less the same name "Where the Wind Blows".. It was (the book) a satirical look at the advice the government had given people in the event of a nuclear war, advice that as the book points out was for the most part nonsense. However, the idea of the wind blowing just means that trouble is coming (although in the title of this poem, it also works as a double entendre) probably because the wind that proceeds (the leading edge of a frontal system, and following shortly behind it would probably be one of the worst storms of the season. Worst, If for no other reason that the that leading edge could gain rotation and start throwing off tornados, as well as it generally being one of the storms with the highest lighten potential. Personally, I didn’t think this needed explaining, as it is a fairly well know cultural idiom. However, I have been fooled before. The poem on the whole however is not written idiomatically, but rather as archetypal.
Oh, and yes, it was purposeful using "unnoted" rather than "unnoticed".

......but did you mean when, not where,the wind blows,Raymond Briggs? And does this change anything in terms of the intent?
I will drink my evening elixir with the hope of lasting till tomorrow and then have a good go at it.
Best,
Trctak

[Erthona]

Could be. Can't recall and didn't feel like a trip to storage...it's the one by Raymond Briggs, But that was just an example of what it could mean. I liked the immediacy of present tense, as to me is has a more apocalyptic feel. Also with the "So" it conveys this was anticipated, and probably not in a god way, so even though it has been dreaded, it is also with a sense of relief. Archetypally, you can be looking at anything from something mildly detesting, but referred to in a tongue n cheek way, or the coming slaughter of thousand of soldiers. It also seems to me to present a nice kind of stoicism/fatalism. A stoicism that has foretold what is now about to occur, but with a still unending will, and we shall persevere to the bloody end! To me, that is an impressive sort of integrity that has ceased to be valued much in a practical way today, although it still might be romanticized. The only consistent perspective this could be told from is that as the personification of the archetype itself. Somewhat as one might have evil be voiced as saying "I am hunger..." Of course this archetype has a much more human face. Initially, sometimes, this conditions looks paradoxical, in the idea that having given up all hope, I find hope, of course it can also come across as Pollyanna-ish if not given an even treatment. In this the last two lines bother me as maybe being a tad to glib.

Dale

[addy]

So this is told more from a general POV, a personification of a specific sentiment? In that case, "I've been waiting my whole life" might have thrown me off as an opener; it kind of tricked me into reducing the context way too early.

[billy]

were it not for the footnote i'd have though by the title, it was about farting

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well, great line and image
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore, this line feels out of place
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly, pimperly feels forced
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,
he went out like a dog, when properly fed. feels a bit to clever

My food’s always had, that killing effect,
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind.

©2012 —Erthona

Note. The title is taken from the title of a book with more or less the same name "Where the Wind Blows".. It was (the book) a satirical look at the advice the government had given people in the event of a nuclear war, advice that as the book points out was for the most part nonsense. However, the idea of the wind blowing just means that trouble is coming (although in the title of this poem, it also works as a double entendre) probably because the wind that proceeds the leading edge of a frontal system, and following shortly behind it would probably be one of the worst storms of the season. Worst, If for no other reason that the that leading edge could gain rotation and start throwing off tornados, as well as it generally being one of the storms with the highest lighten potential. Personally, I didn’t think this needed explaining, as it is a fairly well know cultural idiom. However, I have been fooled before. The poem on the whole however is not written idiomatically, but rather as archetypal.
Oh, and yes, it was purposeful using "unnoted" rather than "unnoticed".

i have to be honest and say i found it disjointed. moving between images that seeming had no correlation. some good strong lines but some didn't gel with the poem. the tie, the well fed dog. i saw no problem with unnoted in fact it works on more than one level. i also had some problems making it flow. i'm crap at discovering what meter some things written in but somehow it felt jerky. as for the foot note, people who know about what you said won't need it and those who don't probably won't google it. to tell us the title is double entendre takes away from our discovering the fact. it's like giving us a surprise after telling us what it is.

thanks for the read as always.

[Erthona]

" i found it disjointed."

I imagine you would, and this is primarily a result of the type of poem it is. "Good poems have several layers." Most people would agree that the literal meaning, or what I call the "apparent meaning" is not necessarily what you are suppose to take away from the poem, especially as poems to be metaphorical. I may be literal be talking about a female dog going through her day, as she nips and bits at other dogs, but the moment she is stood up to she shows she is a coward. OK, well and good. Maybe we impose an interpretation on this, and say the dog represents an overbearing female. But say then as the poem moves along we are shown certain things we did at first not know, and as a result we now see the dog as our country, striving to protect us the best she can. Then we begin to see that the pattern of being misunderstood fits in with this historical pattern of the rise and fall of nations, and once again our perception is altered. A little like we she a fairly large woman holding a man by the neck and slamming his head at a car as fast and as brutally as she can. Our initial reaction is to be repulsed, but as we find out certain things, such as the man is a confirmed pedophile and has already shot the woman once, when she would not let him get at her daughter, and as a result of being shot and losing blood she is about to pass out, and wants to render him unconscious or dead before she passes out. Of course things are not generally quite so literal in a poem, but I think you will probably take my meaning, often poems are layered. I began examining this idea is more depth as I was studying the poetry of Blake in the late 70's. Without going into it, two ideas arose. What if I t treated archetypes, not as abstracts, but as characters. The second idea was, well if we have all these layers, let's just do away with with the most superficial. Well the most simple is also the most literal. So the idea was to write a poem, and strip away the most literal meaning, but leave everything to the reader. This poem incorporates both of those ideas. Thus the disjointedness.

Sorry, I'm real tired,

Dale

[Arachne]

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind.

©2012 —Erthona

Note. The title is taken from the title of a book with more or less the same name "Where the Wind Blows".. It was (the book) a satirical look at the advice the government had given people in the event of a nuclear war, advice that as the book points out was for the most part nonsense. However, the idea of the wind blowing just means that trouble is coming (although in the title of this poem, it also works as a double entendre) probably because the wind that proceeds the leading edge of a frontal system, and following shortly behind it would probably be one of the worst storms of the season. Worst, If for no other reason that the that leading edge could gain rotation and start throwing off tornados, as well as it generally being one of the storms with the highest lighten potential. Personally, I didn’t think this needed explaining, as it is a fairly well know cultural idiom. However, I have been fooled before. The poem on the whole however is not written idiomatically, but rather as archetypal.
Oh, and yes, it was purposeful using "unnoted" rather than "unnoticed".

This poem did require an explanation as it was not clear as to what you were relating. However, even with the explanation, I cannot see how the poem relates. Perhaps my mind is not capturing something or perhaps you could have related it in a form that would not require an explanation. Excuse my harsh judgment, but I call it as I see it. You may wish to judge me just as harsh as that is how we learn. Peace to you.

[Erthona]

As far as I am concerned the problem is always with the writer, especially in terms of clarity. It is my responsibility to clearly get across to the reader what I intend. Some of course disagree with this and want to take refuge in being a blank slate sort of writer, but that probably speaks more to their lack of having anything of value to say. I expect to have something to say, so if you don't here whatever it is, then it is a clarity issue in some way. This piece is trying at best, and my focus was probably not near where it needed to be in order to convey what I wished.

It shouldn't need an explanation, and in my defense the note wasn't one. More of a declaration acknowledging a debt, and that I was playing off that, not trying to steal it. As a general stance I hate trying to say what I wrote is about. If it is not clear then I need to go make it more clear, not write something that tries to justify a poem clearly lacking. So don't worry about hurting my feelings. I'd rather have terse or blunt feedback, than diplomatic crap that says nothing.

Dale

[Philatone]

hello, dale!
some thoughts for you

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,...there are a lot of "I's" in here; it would be possible to cut out the "I've been"
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,...could drop the last comma
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,...nice line
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,...hmm, mixed feelings on the "everyone"; it makes a dramatic jump to people who haven't been introduced
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..
...to this point, there are some vagueries: the "here" of the first stanza, the "everyone", "them", and "you"
Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,...nice line
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,..itteresting break-up of "shoulder"
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,...may want to check punctuation in this stanza
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his....the "ain't" caught me off-guard in terms of word choice. not sure if others agree

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind. ...i liked

i need to come back and read this again, but wanted to leave some thoughts to ponder. hope some may help

[Erthona]

Geoff,

Thanks for the comments. I agree with most, although I have no solution for some.


"My food’s always had, that killing effect,...may want to check punctuation in this stanza"

What? You don't like the comma? Or is it the contraction?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like using ain't, but "isn't" is a syllable too long.
-------------------------------------------------------------

How about:

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,
from paying for heaven with too much hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

this stanza at one level this refers to selling out to materialism and getting fat on empty calories.

it is echoed further on by the idea of martyrdom in the lines

"This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill."

So the "should-er" is suppose to mean "should-ought to"
Probably should write it as "should-oughter"?,

--------------------------------------
I could redo the first stanza thus, as it changes none of the meaning.

been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and hope that I am also new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.
--------------------------------------------


Anyway, thanks for the thoughts.

dale

[Arachne]

As far as I am concerned the problem is always with the writer, especially in terms of clarity. It is my responsibility to clearly get across to the reader what I intend. Some of course disagree with this and want to take refuge in being a blank slate sort of writer, but that probably speaks more to their lack of having anything of value to say. I expect to have something to say, so if you don't here whatever it is, then it is a clarity issue in some way. This piece is trying at best, and my focus was probably not near where it needed to be in order to convey what I wished.

It shouldn't need an explanation, and in my defense the note wasn't one. More of a declaration acknowledging a debt, and that I was playing off that, not trying to steal it. As a general stance I hate trying to say what I wrote is about. If it is not clear then I need to go make it more clear, not write something that tries to justify a poem clearly lacking. So don't worry about hurting my feelings. I'd rather have terse or blunt feedback, than diplomatic crap that says nothing.

Dale

In thinking about my critique of your work, I had to sit back and think about my own stance on writing. Who does the writer write for? If you write for self and understand your work, there should be no need for explanations. If anything, a work that is not understood would be subject to question. IF the writer chooses to relay its meaning, it would come about in story form or dialogue. If the writer chooses not to relay its meaning, then it is up to the reader to use their imagination and subjectivity just as they would have to do when viewing abstract art. This can also be considered blunt feedback. Hugs.

[billy]

" i found it disjointed."

I imagine you would, and this is primarily a result of the type of poem it is. "Good poems have several layers." Most people would agree that the literal meaning, or what I call the "apparent meaning" is not necessarily what you are suppose to take away from the poem, especially as poems to be metaphorical. I may be literal be talking about a female dog going through her day, as she nips and bits at other dogs, but the moment she is stood up to she shows she is a coward. OK, well and good. Maybe we impose an interpretation on this, and say the dog represents an overbearing female. But say then as the poem moves along we are shown certain things we did at first not know, and as a result we now see the dog as our country, striving to protect us the best she can. Then we begin to see that the pattern of being misunderstood fits in with this historical pattern of the rise and fall of nations, and once again our perception is altered. A little like we she a fairly large woman holding a man by the neck and slamming his head at a car as fast and as brutally as she can. Our initial reaction is to be repulsed, but as we find out certain things, such as the man is a confirmed pedophile and has already shot the woman once, when she would not let him get at her daughter, and as a result of being shot and losing blood she is about to pass out, and wants to render him unconscious or dead before she passes out. Of course things are not generally quite so literal in a poem, but I think you will probably take my meaning, often poems are layered. I began examining this idea is more depth as I was studying the poetry of Blake in the late 70's. Without going into it, two ideas arose. What if I t treated archetypes, not as abstracts, but as characters. The second idea was, well if we have all these layers, let's just do away with with the most superficial. Well the most simple is also the most literal. So the idea was to write a poem, and strip away the most literal meaning, but leave everything to the reader. This poem incorporates both of those ideas. Thus the disjointedness.

Sorry, I'm real tired,

Dale

sorry for not getting back sooner dale;

the disjointed part for me isn't the layering, i just felt some of the metaphors didn't gel that well with each other. i think i said unnoted worked on more than one level, so to did some other parts of the poem but i didn't see an obvious connect or disconnect in some, it somehow felt more random than contrived.

as for the footnote; (i saw you reply to someone else ) that's as i took it and not as an explanation. (apart from clarifying unnoted)

of course i could stretch the meaning of a metaphor or two in order for them to work but in doing so i'd be stretching the truth of what i saw.

all that spouting done and dusted, it's not a bad bloody poem

[Erthona]

Billy,

It's not as though it's an inspired poem either. Of course that is the truth most of the time, we mark time, honing our craft until the muse decides to give us something worthy of writing and then hope we are up to the challenge.
----------------------------------------------

Arachne,

This is an answer/or response to your coment. It ended up being more than I had intended, and maybe more than you care to read. I began answering implication about what you wrote and that caused more explaining than I meant to do. I'm not completly sure I got back to the answer I was trying to justify with the explaination.
-----------------------------------------------------

In poetry we attempt to convey with words what is really beyond words to convey. We attempt to combine words in such a way they will give rise to something greater than the mere "literal meaning", in other words we strive for a "literary meaning", that which touches on, or reflects that which all great art connects with. Ultimately, this greater meaning only arises if there is a foundation from which it can arise. If the foundation is poorly built, then there is no chance of this occurring. The foundation is composed of the literal words, put in such an order as we call grammatical/syntactical, and held in place with punctuation. If the words are misspelled, if the structure leads to confusion, if we cannot find the end of one thought and the beginning of another, we cannot make sense of the foundation. I will not go into them all, but there are just certain things, the way the human mind works, that we need to be a certain way. These are the basic rules for the way we understand reality and our interactions with it. Things must be put in a context in order to be understood. Whether poetry or prose, we can make no sense of it if we start reading halfway through, conversely, we can make so sense of it if the writer starts writing halfway through.
Upon this foundation we add our tropes, images and descriptions; our comparison and contrast in order to create something new. When we are finished we have this house standing in front of us. At that point I can say here! If someone says, what is it? I can do nothing, as "it" was the point of the poem. The poem either did or did not bring it to life, but if it did not I cannot explain what it is supposed to be, that was the purpose of the poem. I can discuss if there is a clarity problem in the foundation, or if my metaphors are consistent and do what I want. As the end result of a poem is supposed to be greater than the aggregate, it either happens or doesn't. I can go back and discuss the pieces, but this has nothing to do with the ultimate meaning of the poem. The ultimate meaning of a poem can be apprehended, but it can never be discussed or dissected, or any other thing our minds would try and do, because it exists beyond the rational.

Dale

[tectak]

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,"be" is better than "get" as "get" is possessive and not chronologically linked. It is awkward to "wait to get young". Better to "wait to be young".
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,...and this makes the point. Logical grammar gives us " I hope I'm still here when young finally comes". So..." I hope I'm still here when youth finally comes"
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.Interesting thoughts come into my mind. New hung could be pre-pubescent so "unnoted" (I know it is deliberate) whilst literally meaning "not noticed", could also equate to, because of that one word "so", castrati. Or not.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,Yes to this. Profundity made clear. Allelujah!!
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell, You could drop the "here's" and allow "paying" its full quota of syllables. Surely "here's" a given....and stop calling me Shirley
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,Comma after me , but the next line is just great..... if a little BDylan-esque, motor psycho nightmare.
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,Not a crime but pimp-pel-ly is genre-insensitive and stretched to con-tri-van-ce.
I think I am close to who I thought I should beSome punctuation here
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,I am baffled by the words, confused by your explanation, interested in the thought process, happy with the outcome.....but feeling somehow inadequate. Is this your intent?
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,drop the comma after "had". What is it there for?
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,drop the comma after "spicy". What is it there for?

I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs, ,drop the comma after "truth". What is it there for?

though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.Great stanza. A piece of art on it's own..but the "he" in L4 could be capitalised as it sits unsecured with the "them" in S2, L4

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,Surely not. CALVARY?,drop the comma after "go". What is it there for?

so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind. Trite but final. I would have liked more of this.

©2012 —Erthona

Note. The title is taken from the title of a book with more or less the same name "Where the Wind Blows".. It was (the book) a satirical look at the advice the government had given people in the event of a nuclear war, advice that as the book points out was for the most part nonsense. However, the idea of the wind blowing just means that trouble is coming (although in the title of this poem, it also works as a double entendre) probably because the wind that proceeds the leading edge of a frontal system, and following shortly behind it would probably be one of the worst storms of the season. Worst, If for no other reason that the that leading edge could gain rotation and start throwing off tornados, as well as it generally being one of the storms with the highest lighten potential. Personally, I didn’t think this needed explaining, as it is a fairly well know cultural idiom. However, I have been fooled before. The poem on the whole however is not written idiomatically, but rather as archetypal.
Oh, and yes, it was purposeful using "unnoted" rather than "unnoticed".

I am hesitantly glad I left this one to set in the pan before I cut into it. I have also had the good fortune to read your comments in reply to, but not explanation for, the critics. I believe I knew in advance what your stance and ethos, as expressed here, would be....and I applaud it all.
Now, to the piece itself....fore armed if not fore warned.
Your explanation, NEVER a good idea to explain as you well know, serves no real purpose insofar as the enjoyment of the piece is concerned...and it is a concern. The merit of a piece of edge-on terse-verse lies in the depth of feeling felt BY the reader FOR the writer. It is an exchange of emotional currency. There is an expression...look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.....to keep the metaphor rolling. This piece is penny-full. The pounds will only be assessed by counting the pennies. For me, the penny worth parts are S1, L1...fortunately, as it is the opener. Then S2, L1 and 2 then SEPERATELY S2, L3 and L4 . Not quite a pound, yet.
Overall this is probably a little too enigmatic for old purists like me but it will thwart the sooth-sayers who like to predict that if it don't set it ain't aspic.
This one has definitely set and I am not sure if you would want to change it even if you could...it would just be too compliant to do so!
I would, though, change the title. It is so immediately lost once the reading starts that looking back to see where you are going only causes more confusion!
The usual grammatical inconsistencies can be excused due to your advanced years...but should you ever become newly hung I will expect no more dangled participles.
Best,
tectak

[penguin]

Hello Erthona
It seems a tenuous link to the Raymond Briggs book, beyond the title I don't see it myself.
The repetition of "finally" in opening lines is a bit unimaginative or lazy. The 3rd line I don't take to at all - seems like a badly forced rhyme and out of rhythm to boot.I like "unnoted tongue", nice bit of invention

I’ve been waiting my whole life to finally get young,
I hope I’m still here when it finally comes,
and if I am, hope that I am new hung,
so I can sing of it with an unnoted tongue.

"Still" seems unnecessary and I'm not sure what exactly you're saying that you no longer do.

Still, my belly’s distended from starving too well,
everyone here’s paying for heaven with hell,
but to me a tie makes you look like a whore,
and I already told them I don’t do that no more..

"the should-er" is clever but as someone pointed out, there's an awful lot of I and I'm in here.

Now that I’m here, I’m all goose pimp-pel-ly,
I think I am close to who I thought I should be,
thanks for small favors, the should-er is dead,
he went out like a dog, when properly fed.

This is the best verse, I think, though you don't need a comma after "had" "spicy" or "truth" in my opinion - maybe just spice would be better.

My food’s always had, that killing effect,
a little more spicy, than you’d probably expect,
I prefer a good truth, that’ll stick to your ribs,
though he often speaks with a tongue that ain’t his.

Ditto the commas in this verse.Next time I'll not go?
it's not I that they kill?

This time I’ll not go, up to Cavalry’s Hill,
so when it repeats, it won't be me that they kill.
but the past you can't hide, if you'd start new again,
and you can’t sail away, if there isn’t a wind.

[Erthona]

Sometimes one must offend ones grammar in order to become new hung! Beside why become young and still hung with the same rope you originally brung.
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I claim nowhere this is a good poem, although like Hamlet, I think there are parts worth noting!
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"Overall this is probably a little too enigmatic for old purists like me"

I think you are being charitable here and that you probably felt as noted above that there were decent parts about him, just not enough to make a man. I also suspect it is too enigmatic for most if not all. Although it is quite bursting at the seams, and I am sure I could have easily written it to cover ten times the geography as this, but as I was only assured of a longer poem, in the end I refraimed. They asked EBB about Robert Browning and what his poems meant, she responded, "only God and Mr. Browning know what Mr. Brownings poems mean, and at times I am unsure of Mr. Browning". So often I feel about myself, although I am always clear at the moment of conceptions, and then again at birth. Yet sometimes having another child (poem) to raise often seems to cloud my mind, as the birthing requires so much energy. I suspect that this is one of those poems that one has to be at a high energy level to get much from, and when at a lower energy it will begin to resemble gibberish. At the moment I can't speak to it's value as haven't a clue, but it may well have to pass back through the curicible a time or two Fortunately I know the underlying premiss so I can discuss that, if not provide enl;ightenment.
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Yes, quite right on most your comma slaying
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Probably I was to vague here, or maybe the image of young and hung just overwhelms everything else. Sometimes we are too young to understand things and we must wait until we are older, however, some are born too old and must wait until they get young (get as in "get in shape"). I probably shouldn't go into this... but OK, here goes (after all, misunderstanding is as good as silence). The question: Are archetypes static, or do they change with our understanding and comprehension of them? And in a sense, do they start out old (inflexible) and become young (flexible)? (and is this a reflection of our own mind?) And if they do, how can one demonstrate this? This is the premiss of the poem, not its meaning. Ok, and onward.

unnoted tongue: without music, unknown language, and unnoticed. Take your pick, they all apply.

"You could drop the "here's" and allow "paying" its full quota of syllables." I agree

"the should-er is dead," sounds like "shitter" the repressive voice inside out heads that continues to tell us what we should have done after the fact. The unrestricted voice of shame so to speak. When it is told (fed) the correct things, it is poisoned and dies.

"but the "he" in L4 could be capitalised as it sits unsecured with the "them" in S2, L4"
"them"? I don't know about a them, but "he" ="truth" so I could cap them both. The idea being that fiction often carries more truth than does fact. We learn more truth of humanity from Shakespeare than all the books written on human psychology.
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It's true, I could change the title. I just have no idea what I would change it to!

As always, thanks for your comments,

Dale

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penguin,

I mentioned the Briggs book, so as to note (as I was unsure how close I was to his title) I was not trying to lift from him and not acknowledge it, otherwise you are correct, it has little to do with this poem other than the general idea about an approaching storm bringing trouble.
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Thanks for your comments. Yes there is some tightening up in some of the lines that need doing.
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'I'm not sure what exactly you're saying that you no longer do."

I think you are reading from an inaccurate premise, as "I, the writer" am not the speaker, or at least no more so than anybody else, so this does not apply to me personally at all (very little of what I write does).

Thanks again for your comments. I know I didn't note all here, but those have been mostly address elsewhere.

Thanks,


Dale