" Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed that
the sun revolves around the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."
(In another survey in 2014, 25% got it wrong.)

I live in Texas and I bet it's 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

what's an orbit

(09-01-2016, 09:41 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  " Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed
that the sun orbits the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."

I live in Texas and I bet it's around 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

The current model of the earth orbiting the sun applies a fixed reference point of the sun but there really are not fixed reference points in space. As a fact, all bodies in the solar system are in an elliptical galactic motion as well rendering a true orbit of the sun impossible (it keeps moving so by the time the earth passes an imaginary fixed point where the sun was it has moved on). Keeping this in mind, an imaginary fixed point of reference can be created in order to represent the orbit of the earth around the sun which is convenient as it explains extra-planetary motion as all orbiting the same body. Were you to reimagine the arbitrary fixed point as earth and redraw all relative motion you would see the sun does indeed orbit the earth. And while this doesn't make calculating extra planetary motion as convenient (Jupiter in particular is a mess) it does show the motion itself. Now, it doesn't explain the motion (as the convenient and imaginary force of gravity seems to but once you remove the imaginary force of gravity it becomes clear there is a massless substance that celestial bodies swim through that explains all of the odd extraplanetry motions. We call this substance "ethere" and most scientists realize that while it has no mass or color, it offers particular torsional resistances and currents that can explain almost all celestial motion. It functions much like air on earth's surface.

(09-01-2016, 09:41 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  " Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed that
the sun revolves around the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."
(In another survey in 2014, 25% got it wrong.)

I live in Texas and I bet it's 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

But how many per-cent of Americans actually need that information for their jobs?
Probably none. But then, I remember reading about how science education is super important, not just in terms of teaching the populace of the scientific method, but of establishing a common culture, and of assuring that the people would be informed when it comes to democratic policy making (say, funding astronomical research, or, if this were on the issue of evolution, of supporting evolutionary research and education; oh, and I think the reading was from Max Weber). So I suppose that bit's out of the way.

(09-01-2016, 11:30 PM)milo Wrote:  ... We call this substance "ethere" and most scientists realize that while it has no mass or color,
it offers particular torsional resistances and currents that can explain almost all celestial motion.
It functions much like air on earth's surface.

This is so close to right again that its spooky (at a distance).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Q: When will Facebook contain more profiles of dead people than of living ones?
A: Somewhere between 2060 and 2130.

About 290,000 US Facebook users died in 2013. The worldwide total for 2013 was likely several million.
In just seven years, this death rate will double, and in seven more years it will double again.

For more info see: Facebook of the Dead

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

               

(09-02-2016, 03:13 AM)rayheinrich Wrote:                  

this is how trains work, as far as I am concerned, from now on.

(09-02-2016, 03:54 AM)Quixilated Wrote:  

(09-02-2016, 03:13 AM)rayheinrich Wrote:                  

this is how trains work, as far as I am concerned, from now on.

this reminds me of the dark matter engine from futurama:

" I understand how the engines work now. It came to me in a dream. The engines don't move the ship at all. The ship stays where it is and the engines move the universe around it."
―Cubert Farnsworth

http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_matter_engine

(09-02-2016, 05:06 AM)shemthepenman Wrote:  this reminds me of the dark matter engine from futurama:

" I understand how the engines work now. It came to me in a dream. The engines don't move the ship at all. The ship stays where it is and the engines move the universe around it."
―Cubert Farnsworth

http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_matter_engine

  I shall always hold Farnsworth/Futurama in reverance as he/they were the creators of the epithet "Sweet Zombie Jesus!"
  and the self-evident concept that Jesus was indeed a zombie.

(09-01-2016, 11:30 PM)milo Wrote:  

(09-01-2016, 09:41 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  " Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed
that the sun orbits the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."

I live in Texas and I bet it's around 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

The current model of the earth orbiting the sun applies a fixed reference point of the sun but there really are not fixed reference points in space. As a fact, all bodies in the solar system are in an elliptical galactic motion as well rendering a true orbit of the sun impossible (it keeps moving so by the time the earth passes an imaginary fixed point where the sun was it has moved on). Keeping this in mind, an imaginary fixed point of reference can be created in order to represent the orbit of the earth around the sun which is convenient as it explains extra-planetary motion as all orbiting the same body. Were you to reimagine the arbitrary fixed point as earth and redraw all relative motion you would see the sun does indeed orbit the earth. And while this doesn't make calculating extra planetary motion as convenient (Jupiter in particular is a mess) it does show the motion itself. Now, it doesn't explain the motion (as the convenient and imaginary force of gravity seems to but once you remove the imaginary force of gravity it becomes clear there is a massless substance that celestial bodies swim through that explains all of the odd extraplanetry motions. We call this substance "ethere" and most scientists realize that while it has no mass or color, it offers particular torsional resistances and currents that can explain almost all celestial motion. It functions much like air on earth's surface.

Where's this from? Sounds a bit odd. All inertial frames are equivalent, but the earth around the sun is an accelerated frame of reference and therefore not equivalent to its opposite. Also, gravity as an imaginary force post dates the concept of ether, which went out in 1905.
Rather odd.

From my perspective the sun revolves around the earth....

(09-03-2016, 06:33 AM)Achebe Wrote:  Where's this from? Sounds a bit odd. All inertial frames are equivalent, but the earth around the sun is an accelerated frame of reference and therefore not equivalent to its opposite. Also, gravity as an imaginary force post dates the concept of ether, which went out in 1905.
Rather odd.

I think he was referring to a newer ether theory: dark matter doesn't exist, it's an ether field that increases the gravity.

"Starkman and colleagues Tom Zlosnik and Pedro Ferreira of the University of Oxford are now reincarnating the ether in a new form to solve the puzzle of dark matter, the mysterious substance that was proposed to explain why galaxies seem to contain much more mass than can be accounted for by visible matter. They posit an ether that is a field, rather than a substance, and which pervades space-time. "If you removed everything else in the universe, the ether would still be there," says Zlosnik. This ether field isn't to do with light, but rather is something that boosts the gravitational pull of stars and galaxies, making them seem heavier, says Starkman. It does this by increasing the flexibility of space-time itself . "We usually imagine space-time as a rubber sheet that's warped by a massive object," says Starkman. "The ether makes that rubber sheet more bendable in parts, so matter can seem to have a much bigger gravitational effect than you would expect from its weight." The team's calculations show that this ether-induced gravity boost would explain the observed high velocities of stars in galaxies, currently attributed to the presence of dark matter."

Here's where that came from:
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2...082306.php

(09-03-2016, 06:33 AM)Achebe Wrote:  

(09-01-2016, 11:30 PM)milo Wrote:  

(09-01-2016, 09:41 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  " Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed
that the sun orbits the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."

I live in Texas and I bet it's around 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

The current model of the earth orbiting the sun applies a fixed reference point of the sun but there really are not fixed reference points in space. As a fact, all bodies in the solar system are in an elliptical galactic motion as well rendering a true orbit of the sun impossible (it keeps moving so by the time the earth passes an imaginary fixed point where the sun was it has moved on). Keeping this in mind, an imaginary fixed point of reference can be created in order to represent the orbit of the earth around the sun which is convenient as it explains extra-planetary motion as all orbiting the same body. Were you to reimagine the arbitrary fixed point as earth and redraw all relative motion you would see the sun does indeed orbit the earth. And while this doesn't make calculating extra planetary motion as convenient (Jupiter in particular is a mess) it does show the motion itself. Now, it doesn't explain the motion (as the convenient and imaginary force of gravity seems to but once you remove the imaginary force of gravity it becomes clear there is a massless substance that celestial bodies swim through that explains all of the odd extraplanetry motions. We call this substance "ethere" and most scientists realize that while it has no mass or color, it offers particular torsional resistances and currents that can explain almost all celestial motion. It functions much like air on earth's surface.

Where's this from? Sounds a bit odd. All inertial frames are equivalent, but the earth around the sun is an accelerated frame of reference and therefore not equivalent to its opposite. Also, gravity as an imaginary force post dates the concept of ether, which went out in 1905.
Rather odd.

This is from reality and can be recreated in a true computer diagram by holding the earth as still and observing all other celestial bodies.

As for dates - you are crazy!  Gravity is an imaginary force used to make the mathematics of astronomy convenient and the ethere has been here all along!

This is really interesting, this concept of 'ether'. I did make copious notes once, when I was studying alchemy. I left them in another country though.

The idea of the 'quintessence' - the fifth element, has always fascinated me. The Seal of Solomon encapsulates the message - 'As above, so below'. Essential wisdom?

Gravity is a lie taught to the simple. Don't believe it, Gravity will only hold you down.

(09-03-2016, 10:23 AM)milo Wrote:  Gravity will only hold you down.

I'm stealing that

(09-01-2016, 11:30 PM)milo Wrote:  

(09-01-2016, 09:41 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  " Morris Berman quotes a 2006 survey that showed some 20% of the U.S. population believed
that the sun orbits the earth rather than vice-versa, while a further 9% claimed not to know."

I live in Texas and I bet it's around 35% down here.

Not sure there's much discussion to be had on this, but I'm throwing it up anyway.

The current model of the earth orbiting the sun applies a fixed reference point of the sun but there really are not fixed reference points in space. As a fact, all bodies in the solar system are in an elliptical galactic motion as well rendering a true orbit of the sun impossible (it keeps moving so by the time the earth passes an imaginary fixed point where the sun was it has moved on). Keeping this in mind, an imaginary fixed point of reference can be created in order to represent the orbit of the earth around the sun which is convenient as it explains extra-planetary motion as all orbiting the same body. Were you to reimagine the arbitrary fixed point as earth and redraw all relative motion you would see the sun does indeed orbit the earth. And while this doesn't make calculating extra planetary motion as convenient (Jupiter in particular is a mess) it does show the motion itself. Now, it doesn't explain the motion (as the convenient and imaginary force of gravity seems to but once you remove the imaginary force of gravity it becomes clear there is a massless substance that celestial bodies swim through that explains all of the odd extraplanetry motions. We call this substance "ethere" and most scientists realize that while it has no mass or color, it offers particular torsional resistances and currents that can explain almost all celestial motion. It functions much like air on earth's surface.

Well, not exactly. The reference point is not the Sun; neither the Sun nor the Earth are an inertial frame of reference - and non-inertial frames are generally not useful, as they require ficticious forces (e.g. the coriolis effect, the centrifugal force). The Sun and the Earth both orbit their centre of mass, with slight perturbations from other planets, and the whole system orbits the CoM of the galaxy. And there is absolutely no such thing as "aether"; Michaelson & Morley attempted to detect it and failed (in 1887!! catch up!!!). Space isn't entirely a vacuum, but there is no permeating "aether" mediating gravity. The current theory of gravity is the general theory of relativity - basically, mass curves spacetime and this is what we experience as gravity.

Centrifugal force is fictitious?

(11-25-2016, 11:32 PM)Pdeathstar Wrote:  Centrifugal force is fictitious?

Yeah, because the acceleration vector is towards the centre, so the centripetal force is the actual force.
What we experience as he centrifugal force is the tension of a string that we are supplying (tenjlsm not seeing) or the reaction force of our seats in a merry go round or simply the inability of friction to provide the necessary centripetal force causing a car to skid...

(11-25-2016, 11:21 PM)gedankespieler Wrote:  The current theory of gravity is the general theory of relativity - basically, mass curves spacetime and this is what we experience as gravity.

    The general theory of relativity's explanation of gravity is called into question by the necessity
    of the existence of dark matter which has yet to be detected. Maybe it will be discovered,
    if so it's all cool. But maybe not...