Rube Barbs

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

But that's how we get to Heaven? Who's in charge here?
God? This may look painted on, but tears,
My shoulders going up and down: I'm trying
To look like I'm laughing. I just can't believe . . .
I'm devastated. I'm the punchline to the one about human beings.
But the French horns swell, and the machine spotlights me.

(12-10-2013, 12:51 PM)crow Wrote:  Rube Barbs

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

But that's how we get to Heaven? Who's in charge here?
God? This may look painted on, but tears,
My shoulders going up and down: I'm trying
To look like I'm laughing. I just can't believe . . .
I'm devastated. I'm the punchline to the one about human beings.
But the French horns swell, and the machine spotlights me.

rhyme really doesn't work at all without meter. I see you are trying the general form of a petrarchan but this might be better run through the practice forums until it at least gets the basics down. Maybe just try a few stanzas of blank verse until you get the rhythm down:

this is what it would look like if the meter was fixed -

Rapture shivers like a grace-filled-hand,
a pie right in the face, like what the fuck
is with this place it's like we're meant to suck
the pain that causes us to take a stand
and then apologize? Well aint that grand.
We know the slap stick pratfulls - know the yuck
the whoopie cushion cheap laughs for a buck
and shrug up to the wankers in the band

But that's the route to heaven, who's in charge -
God? Painted tears are small as he's too large
to see my shoulders up and down, I'm trying
to emulate a laugh, I can't believe . .
I'm devastated, a human punchline crying
but French horns swell - the big top spotlights me.

I don't know if you can hear it yet as I don't know your experience with meter. Anyway, it would still have severe problems, but I would fix the rhyme and meter first as it is painful right now.

I read it with spondees. The title was meant to set that up . . . If the following reading is unavailable, let me know. Also, I'd say, not defensively (meaning emotionally) but defensively regarding assonance, that if you read the original out loud, the internal rhyme compensates. Here's my scansion of the octave:

RAPture IS a GRACE-FILLED HAND
PIE-in-the-FACE. RIGHT? MAN, FUCK
this FUCKing PLACE. We're MEANT to SUCK
On CREAM that CAUSes US PAIN and THEN [edit there]
apOLoGIZE? We're CLOWNS, so WE underSTAND
a LOT about HARD LUCK prat FALLS yuck YUCK
TEN BUCKS for US to FUCK UP
and SHRUG to the SCHMUCKS in the GRAND STAND--[caesura]

Steer me right, there . . .

(12-11-2013, 11:00 AM)crow Wrote:  I read it with spondees. The title was meant to set that up . . . If the following reading is unavailable, let me know. Also, I'd say, not defensively (meaning emotionally) but defensively regarding assonance, that if you read the original out loud, the internal rhyme compensates. Here's my scansion of the octave:

RAPture IS a GRACE-FILLED HAND
PIE-in-the-FACE. RIGHT? MAN, FUCK
this FUCKing PLACE. We're MEANT to SUCK
On CREAM that CAUSes US PAIN and THEN [edit there]
apOLoGIZE? We're CLOWNS, so WE underSTAND
a LOT about HARD LUCK prat FALLS yuck YUCK
TEN BUCKS for US to FUCK UP
and SHRUG to the SCHMUCKS in the GRAND STAND--[caesura]

Steer me right, there . . .

RAPture isaGRACE filledHAND - troche, anapest, iamb (alternatively RAPture ISa GRACEfilled HAND which would make it trochaic but promote the prep)
PIEin theFACE RIGHTman FUCK - troche, iamb troche catalyzedtroche
thisFUCK ingPLACE we;reMEANT toSUCK 4 iambs, first metric line, iambic tetrameter
onCREAM thatCAUS esusPAIN andTHEN - iamb, iamb, anapest, iamb
aPOL oGIZE wereCLOWN soweUN derSTAND - iamb, iamb, iamb, anapest, iamb
aLOT aBOUT HARDluck PRATfalls yuckYUCK - iamb, iamb, troche, troche, iamb
tenBUCKS forUS toFUCK UP -iamb iamb iamb catalexistroche
andSHRUG totheSCHMUCKS intheGRAND STAND - iamb anapest anapest catalexistroche

pretty much, you have 1 metric line.

It is a mess.

not a single spondee

NOTE: In English scansion, three hard beats or three soft beats will ot occur in succession. A promotion or a demotion will occur.

(12-10-2013, 12:51 PM)crow Wrote:  Rube Barbs

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

But that's how we get to Heaven? Who's in charge here?
God? This may look painted on, but tears,
My shoulders going up and down: I'm trying
To look like I'm laughing. I just can't believe . . .
I'm devastated. I'm the punchline to the one about human beings.
But the French horns swell, and the machine spotlights me.

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat [/i]falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

Honestly, you're starting to remind me of Gerard Manley Hopkins

Quote:A note on English scansion - three hard beats will cause a demotion, three soft beats will cause a promotion

(12-11-2013, 11:16 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  

(12-10-2013, 12:51 PM)crow Wrote:  Rube Barbs

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

But that's how we get to Heaven? Who's in charge here?
God? This may look painted on, but tears,
My shoulders going up and down: I'm trying
To look like I'm laughing. I just can't believe . . .
I'm devastated. I'm the punchline to the one about human beings.
But the French horns swell, and the machine spotlights me.

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

Honestly, you're starting to remind me of Gerard Manley Hopkins

close

pratFALLS is pronounced PRATfalls and understand is UNderSTAND, no reason to demote.

That's what Pinsky says. I just disagree. His example is BROWN COW, and the reason he gives for it not being a spondee is that his ear demotes one or the other syllable. But he doesn't address how he'd hear "it's a BROWN COW in a FIELD STANDing aLONE," so I'm unconvinced. And if it's widely accepted that spondees only exist in Latin and Greek . . . I guess I have a heterodox ear . . .

In any case, I won't post anything else w spondees

(12-11-2013, 11:21 AM)crow Wrote:  That's what Pinsky says. I just disagree. His example is BROWN COW, and the reason he gives for it not being a spondee is that his ear demotes one or the other syllable. But he doesn't address how he'd hear "it's a BROWN COW in a FIELD STANDing aLONE," so I'm unconvinced. And if it's widely accepted that spondees only exist in Latin and Greek . . . I guess I have a heterodox ear . . .

In any case, I won't post anything else w spondees

spondees exist in English all the time.

If you want to experience how promotion/demotion works, say BROWNCOW five times fast and see what happens.

BTW, it isn't really a he says/she says type of thing, as a writer you need to train your ear. The more you do it the easier it will be. After 1000 lines of blank verse you would read this properly but it takes practice.

By the way, this is sooo fun. I'm not trying to get under anyone's skin, but I do love the back-and-forth.

(12-11-2013, 11:24 AM)crow Wrote:  By the way, this is sooo fun. I'm not trying to get under anyone's skin, but I do love the back-and-forth.

you aren't getting under anyone's skin, this is what we do.

Can I post this here as my one poem of the day? It's the second half of Rube Barb, called Clown Crown. The whole piece is dedicated to Patch Adams, and I plan to hand-write it and mail it to him after I incorporate y'all's feedback.

Clown Crown

And I hear . . .

You must really be a clown,
To shout love amidst the battle,
A tragedian
Grieving uncynically for the vulnerable belief,
Weaving
Scenes of soldierly transcendence,
Acting them out on wings of leaves.
You duck the razor and stand solemnly so you can breath the night air,
Train your gaze to the horizon where the sun sets while the sword bears
down . . .
You must really be a clown.
And in the end, left to die among the crowd, you ape about in a shroud,
Begging the clouds to s i n g with you, and not to lift you out?!
Sammy Davis saying "what's that sound" to the angel, like a member of the gallery,
And not "death be not proud" to the stranger who came over to take you out?
Hallelujah to the night with no nod to the ground?
You must really be a clown.
Trapped in a box? Locked up in a body?
Fearless? So in love with beauty that death
Is a myth and meaningless
And its sway
Laughable?
You must really be a clown
To think that belief
Is
Even remotely
passable.

(12-11-2013, 11:20 AM)milo Wrote:  

(12-11-2013, 11:16 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  

(12-10-2013, 12:51 PM)crow Wrote:  Rube Barbs

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

But that's how we get to Heaven? Who's in charge here?
God? This may look painted on, but tears,
My shoulders going up and down: I'm trying
To look like I'm laughing. I just can't believe . . .
I'm devastated. I'm the punchline to the one about human beings.
But the French horns swell, and the machine spotlights me.

Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

Honestly, you're starting to remind me of Gerard Manley Hopkins

close

pratFALLS is pronounced PRATfalls and understand is UNderSTAND, no reason to demote.

I didn't feel like typing, clicking seem a good idea at the time. type repy and try scanning with all of that code.

as far as we and un I think i had it on un the first time then got a big weee not in scansion really but /we/ as in, hey man, /we/ understand, bud, /they/ might not, but /we/ do.

(12-11-2013, 11:31 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  

(12-11-2013, 11:20 AM)milo Wrote:  

(12-11-2013, 11:16 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  Rapture is a grace-filled-hand
Pie-in-the-face. Right? Man, fuck
This fucking place. We're meant to suck
On cream that causes us pain and
Then apologize? We're clowns, so we understand
A lot about hard luck prat falls yuck yuck
Ten bucks for us to fuck up
And shrug to the schmucks in the grand stand—

Honestly, you're starting to remind me of Gerard Manley Hopkins

close

pratFALLS is pronounced PRATfalls and understand is UNderSTAND, no reason to demote.

I didn't feel like typing, clicking seem a good idea at the time. type repy and try scanning with all of that code.

as far as we and un I think i had it on un the first time then got a big weee not in scansion really but /we/ as in, hey man, /we/ understand, bud, /they/ might not, but /we/ do.

I would have done that too if UNderSTAND didn't follow, but there is no way that would demote so we had to.

(12-11-2013, 11:32 AM)milo Wrote:  

(12-11-2013, 11:31 AM)trueenigma Wrote:  

(12-11-2013, 11:20 AM)milo Wrote:  close

pratFALLS is pronounced PRATfalls and understand is UNderSTAND, no reason to demote.

I didn't feel like typing, clicking seem a good idea at the time. type repy and try scanning with all of that code.

as far as we and un I think i had it on un the first time then got a big weee not in scansion really but /we/ as in, hey man, /we/ understand, bud, /they/ might not, but /we/ do.

I would have done that too if UNderSTAND didn't follow, but there is no way that would demote so we had to.

comprendo

(12-11-2013, 11:29 AM)crow Wrote:  Can I post this here as my one poem of the day? It's the second half of Rube Barb, called Clown Crown. The whole piece is dedicated to Patch Adams, and I plan to hand-write it and mail it to him after I incorporate y'all's feedback.

Here is my thought on tis and I am speaking as a poster not a moderator:

Why post another poem when you haven't really worked through this one yet? It's not a race. We are going to be here for a long long time and I can't imagine anyone wanting to get involved in the in-depth work-shopping that serious requires on 2 poems at the same time.

That being the case, i don't think it's against the rules, just I seem to see better results when posters really tear into one poem at a time.

Also, I hope you are providing other posters an equivalent amount of attention as you are receiving, don't forget, everyone wants a little attention and the site works on reciprocity.

I'm just excited, is all. You're right, again. If it's easy to delete the new entry, it certainly won't hurt my feelings.

---

My rationale is that the two pieces are actually one piece, but that's not a great rationale.

(12-11-2013, 11:48 AM)crow Wrote:  I'm just excited, is all. You're right, again. If it's easy to delete the new entry, it certainly won't hurt my feelings.

---

My rationale is that the two pieces are actually one piece, but that's not a great rationale.

I would read through these 2 threads if I was you - 2 of my favourites and the authors really use the resources of the workshop to improve the poem. At the same time, I have seen people post poem after poem and never get a single one to this level. I would rather read 1 good poem than 100 mediocre poems.

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=12580

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=12603