removing the newly registered forum:

[billy]

removing the newly registered forum:

the admin and mods have been discussing the removal of the newly registered forum.
at present we're getting a lot of new members who hit and run by posting their own poetry without leaving feedback.

a proposal was put forward that we remove that forum and work on a moderated post system for new members.

this would stop once someone had left five pieces of feedback in one of the three main feedback forums. {a piece of feedback would allow you to post a piece of poetry, one could of course post as many pieces of feedback as they please but a one for one would be the requirement [no feedback=no posting of poetry]

the rules would be ironed out and made as clear as possible of course.

this way we could also clear up the problem of new members who post feedback in the wrong forum; as long as the feedback is okay we would allow a poem to be posted.

the poll answers will be taken into consideration though we may ignore them if we don't like the replies

[milo]

It had a good run.

[rayheinrich]

I voted for "It sounds like a great idea." because there was no
"It would be a good idea if it weren't for the extra effort it requires."

But since it's not me who'll be efforted and nor, for that matter, participated
or subjugated; this isn't so much feedback as it is character enciphered
bioacoustic noise.

[bena]

I voted for kill all mods. Not because I want you to, just couldn't resist that option. I was surprised someone else had beat me to it~

It may not be a bad idea to skip the newly registered forum, it would be easier to control the crits v posts, at least on the workshop boards.

[milo]

It was like when I put up the poll and included "feed billy to a dragon". It was the only option that got votes.

[crow]

I think keep it.

Like the rest of the forum, the newly registered forum isn't for the chuckleheads who don't stick, but rather for the ones of us that do. It's a fond memory, for one, and I appreciated looking around myself in that forum to see who was joining at the same time as me.

Let me make the strongest argument I can . . .

The Newly Registered Forum shouldn't be cut because it provides an immediate sense of invitation and ownership to new registrants who might otherwise feel unwanted.

Not the best argument, but it's what I got . . .

[ellajam]

I think keep it.

Like the rest of the forum, the newly registered forum isn't for the chuckleheads who don't stick, but rather for the ones of us that do. It's a fond memory, for one, and I appreciated looking around myself in that forum to see who was joining at the same time as me.

Let me make the strongest argument I can . . .

The Newly Registered Forum shouldn't be cut because it provides an immediate sense of invitation and ownership to new registrants who might otherwise feel unwanted.

Not the best argument, but it's what I got . . .

I have to say that I feel the same way about the members who joined around the same time I did. (Brandon, where are you, I'm still waiting for the great wheelchair poem. )

There was no Newly Registered, we posted our first critiques and then poems in Novice. It was a fine way to learn the site. Unfortunately what happens now is fine, interesting critiques are deleted because the poster in Newly Registered dropped their poem with no intention of ever coming back, or of taking a step towards improving their own work through careful reading of other people's work.

The site is many things to many people but I think we can't lose sight of that core, to me it's precious.

[Leanne]

I genuinely do feel that the sense of belonging happened more quickly when there was no safety net. We wouldn't be deleting the poems from the Newly Registered forum by members who have contributed here in other areas, just moving them. Honestly, the only reason we put it there in the first place was to try to encourage people to get out of it as quickly as possible and join in with the rest of the site, but it just hasn't turned out that way. We don't need dumping grounds.

[billy]

at first i thought the effort would be more than it's worth but when you break it down it should be easier as we don't have to trawl the newly registered every time there's a post and we don't have to work out where they posted feedback.

I voted for "It sounds like a great idea." because there was no
"It would be a good idea if it weren't for the extra effort it requires."

But since it's not me who'll be efforted and nor, for that matter, participated
or subjugated; this isn't so much feedback as it is character enciphered
bioacoustic noise.

[billy]

i also voted to kill all mods...bastards. let the admin be though :J:

I voted for kill all mods.  Not because I want you to, just couldn't resist that option.  I was surprised someone else had beat me to it~

It may not be a bad idea to skip the newly registered forum, it would be easier to control the crits v posts, at least on the workshop boards.

[billy]

the poems done so far and their responses can be merged with the novice forum so that would be a problem.

over the last few months we've had periods when the site had a vanity forum feel to it. it's not a nice thing to see and certainly goes against the grain of what the site was aiming for. newbs will still be welcomed with a heartwarming joining letter and it will be explained why we require 5 pieces of feedback ( from those or from the lack of those we can ascertain whether they want to be on a site that helps people to workshop and a cuddle or a site where they just want a warm fuzzy felt cuddle.

i didn't expect to see many newbs responding here so please, prove me wrong. would any of you be pissed if we moderated you on a one poem for one piece of feedback basis (five time)

i'm sure i would be, in fact i've been on such sites and usually just laid down the five pieces of feedback before posting a poem or posted them just after posting a first poem. we have some members here who did just that.

doing it this way would also allow us to accept some posts outside the three forums as feedback if they're of value to the site.

[billy]

just an added point, we have had new members who have posted a single piece of feedback who we allowed to instantly posts anywhere. from their feedback it was pretty obvious they respected such a system.

[brandontoh]

When I joined there wasn't a Newly Registered Forum, and I adapted to the system quickly. It just seems like a trash can for people who want to post their one poem and leave. Is it possible to give the moderated newbies system a try, then deciding whether it's worth keeping?

I think keep it.

Like the rest of the forum, the newly registered forum isn't for the chuckleheads who don't stick, but rather for the ones of us that do. It's a fond memory, for one, and I appreciated looking around myself in that forum to see who was joining at the same time as me.

Let me make the strongest argument I can . . .

The Newly Registered Forum shouldn't be cut because it provides an immediate sense of invitation and ownership to new registrants who might otherwise feel unwanted.

Not the best argument, but it's what I got . . .

I have to say that I feel the same way about the members who joined around the same time I did. (Brandon, where are you, I'm still waiting for the great wheelchair poem. )

There was no Newly Registered, we posted our first critiques and then poems in Novice. It was a fine way to learn the site. Unfortunately what happens now is fine, interesting critiques are deleted because the poster in Newly Registered dropped their poem with no intention of ever coming back, or of taking a step towards improving their own work through careful reading of other people's work.

The site is many things to many people but I think we can't lose sight of that core, to me it's precious.

Things get confusing when there are multiple Brandons on the site.

[ellajam]

^^^You had your I'm too busy sig and he was long gone by the time you popped back up. Besides, you're toh.

My first instinct was to vote Kill the Mods, then I remembered I was one. Then I thought Kill them, let the admins do the work but I realized they'd just find a new bunch of fools to do their work so I gave up the idea.

[Leanne]

For those of you who don't realise what it is we do as mods/admin, here's an example. Yesterday a newbie posted five pieces of 'feedback' like this in quick succession in a blatant attempt to circumvent our rules. If there had been nobody on site to moderate, this member would have instantly gained access to posting anywhere in the forum -- as it was, it took long enough to delete the other posts and reset the post count to zero (which must be done by admin). Those of you who wonder where the mod team is these days and why they're not posting/critiquing as much as they used to be... that's what they're doing. Chasing dickheads.

Sound like fun to you? It's not. It's exhausting to say the same thing over and over again and be ignored over and over again. Moderating posts isn't ideal either, because what's ideal is that the people who join up here act like grownups who don't need to be told the rules more than once and who actually do the right thing.

Because that's likely, right?

[milo]

^^^You had your I'm too busy sig and he was long gone by the time you popped back up. Besides, you're toh.

My first instinct was to vote Kill the Mods, then I remembered I was one. Then I thought Kill them, let the admins do the work but I realized they'd just find a new bunch of fools to do their work so I gave up the idea.

Admins working - lol - very funny Ella.

[bena]

Com' on Leanne, I of all ppl realize your job and the mods is completely thankless and massively intrusive into your writing time. But he put the kill the mods there, I couldn't resist...If it had said "let's go ride a hippopotamus' I probably would have chose that one too. So I bow down to all mods and admins...you guys are great.

love ya,
mel

[shemthepenman]

I suppose, and bearing in mind what Leanne said about the business of it all (which seems like a fucking nightmare and grounds for a yes vote if nothing else), my only reservation about getting rid of the newly registered forum is, what does it matter in the grand scheme of things? I mean, someone dumps a poem, they might be great and live a long productive life at the PP (could be another Dylan Thomas that died of alcoholism before having the chance to critique anything), they may not and fuck off. It is like a vanity loop for poetry itself. "Did I just spend an hour writing a critique for some fuckwit that won't give anyone else feedback, will just come here, reap the spoils of my 'wisdom' and be gone? Ah well, there's a new Adam Curtis documentary about how Italian food and the decimal system invented the second world war. I'll watch that and probably forget about Ms twat poet in 5 minutes." My point is, why should this vote concern anyone who doesn't have to deal with the business of it all? One would surely vote yes get rid of it if we all had to comment, crit, remove, admin, these dickheads. But we don't. A post appears, we read the poem, it is good, shit, whatever. We write feedback, we don't... so what? either way. The newly registered forum is like a wall that shit is thrown at, most of it drops off, but some sticks, and sticks around.
But that is only my reservation, other than that, fuck 'em. If five pieces of feedback is too much, then poetry is obviously not their goal. When I first registered I posted one poem in Serious. I was lucky, I suppose, that there were no requirements, I got some good feedback, I posted some feedback after that (oh the arrogance). I love poetry. I love words, and what they can do. And if you can only love your own words, this site is not for you.

"Go on thinking that you don't need to be read and you'll find that it may become quite true: no one will feel the need to read it because it is written for yourself alone; and the public won't feel any impulse to gate crash such a private party."

—Dylan Thomas

[cjchaffin]

i ignored the forum in question when i first joined and went straight for the Mild Critique forum. i say dump it. safety nets are nice and all, but this is a poetry website with a high level of anonymity. people who are serious are having their work critiqued will have no problem with the reverse, and 5 crits is more than fair for someone to be able to receive the very feedback that they themselves are here for. assuming, that is, that they are here for actual feedback and not a handjob. coddling is for babies. poetry is for people who eat solid food. no need to ease them into something that they should already be familiar with if they are here for the right reasons. if they aren't, then that will be evident soon enough and Leanne can shame them publicly 

i know my advice sells for zero on the world market right now because i've been AWOL for so long, but i just thought i'd throw my two cents

[Erthona]

How about make the five critiques the membership fee? When they have their 5 critiques (although I think 3 may be better) they can pm to a separate account that all the mods have access to, that they have completed their critiques and are now applying for a change of status. Until they've paid the membership fee, they can't post anywhere. It will drive off those individuals who are still the center of the world, and retain people who have the sense to see that this is necessary to keep the site going. If they will not give critiques then it means we didn't want them anyway as the idea of giving back is obviously foreign to them. I would also institute a policy that if they have not completed the critiques within a given amount of time, you delete their account. This would prevent the need to do cleanings every so often. It would take the burden off the mods as they would not have to keep up with anything, just check on the critiques when the person informs them he has completed the task, and is applying for a change of status. As this would reduce the work load and can be handled by any mode, it would free up time for the poor mods to write poetry they are so yearning to write. I think this would also obviate a lot of the chasing down or warning that is currently being done. If a person feels they have "paid" something for membership they will value it and not want to jeopardize their membership by going off half cocked (insert less trite phrase here) and risk getting expelled. Plus the people who would make it through the process for membership are probably the kind of people who wouldn't rock the boat anyway, that is these people would not be trouble makers (as much) as we have had in the past. This would reduce the level of work the mods have to do and would also reduce the drama on the site, leading to a more productive and calm site. I think there will still be enough drama to satisfy the needs of most people.

Well that’s what I got. I think you will probably reject this suggestion as it makes to much sense.

Dale