ecce signum

[Mr. Shankly]

the wilt of the face into sag
a complement to living in this vestige of humanly rags
is it blessing or curse, to feel all without recourse?
only a mordant heart can whether the worst

the argumentative finger
authoritatively combined with the finality of the fist
a congenial covenant to living
sealed with a forced kiss

to touch, to play, to mold
all desires are one:
to comb this mangled face into a
moppet of volition

ah, to be alone!
somnambulat gaiety
the barren desert is my best friend.
ecclesiastical bells ring in my heart

feeling creation is not merely a beautiful work of art
whether we go or whether we stay
the result is the same
for a time, we were only game

[rowens]

It uses nice devices. Some of the lines don't flow well because you leave an obvious word like 'a' or 'an' or 'the' out.

It doesn't say very much. Or, it says something, but it says something very simple in a very complicated way.

Maybe you could say something about the content compared with the style.

[tectak]

the wilt of the face into sagNice opener but I can see already that puctuation is not a consideration
a complement to living in this vestiage of humanly ragsOoops! Maybe spelling is a little in need of tightening , too. Could you check out before posting in serious crit as it is tedious mentioning this kind of error. VESTIGE
is it blessing or curse, to feel all without recourse?
only a mordant heart can weather the worstMordant? Not sure about this. There seems to be an error here. Mordant has a fairly tight meaning but ....well, you look it up.

the argumentative finger
authoritatively combined with the finality of the fist
a congenial covenant to living
sealed with a forced kissVery nice stanza. It would almost certainly be improved in its percussiveness by some creative punctuation. No punctuation leaves the reader wondering if interpretation is worth bothering about. I mean, if you are not bothered, why should I be. That's fair, isn't it?

to touch, to play, to mold
all desires are one:
to comb this mangled face into a
moppet of volition This is a difficult concept. Though "moppet" is fairly well accepted as an endearing term for a child, or more historically a rag-doll, to pair it with "volition" seems counter-intuitive. If I need to have it explained it is probably my failing.....but I need to have it explained.

ah, to be alone!Naively over dramatic, Miss Garbo, and not necessary, though still making isolated sense. Could you restructure this line to lead more convincingly into the next....oh. Somnambulate gaiety? Perhaps not.
somnambulate gaietyWhere did this come from?
the barren desert is my best friend.HUGE leap into the unknown. This is now going nowhere fast. You need to pull it back on track. I have just realised I have no idea what this is about. Forgive me. I need to get on track myself.
ecclestical bells ring in my heart....That's better. Spelling-ecclesiastical. Phew, thank goodness for that. I was becoming pleasant

feeling creation is not merely a beautiful work of artNow this DOES need punctuation. Are you FEELING CREATION or feeling that creation is not.....that is, the question...er....see what I mean
whether we go or whether we stay
the result is the same
for a time, we were only gameAre you game m'dear? Yes,she said. So he shot her.

Some nice bits in this but it is let down by the surprising lapses in intent and apparent incompetance (spelling, word knowledge). I am happy to be wrong and then must accept that you write in haste and do not check what you put up for crit. If this was tightened up it would be...er...tighter; but I am not sure it would be of any increased consequence. Overall, I have no idea what it is about....perhaps that doesn't matter. Oh, and as a by the by, I spent fifty years of my life in the boolean algebra of logic electronic circuitry. Ecce signum was the battle cry of the truth-table conquered but I do not recognise its use in the title. Perhaps you could explain?
Best,
tectak

[rowens]

"because you leave an obvious word like 'a' or 'an' or 'the' out."

When I said that bit, I might have been hallucinating a little. I don't really see you leaving out those words now.

The rest of my comment can stay though.

[Mr. Shankly]

It uses nice devices. Some of the lines don't flow well because you leave an obvious word like 'a' or 'an' or 'the' out.

It doesn't say very much. Or, it says something, but it says something very simple in a very complicated way.

Maybe you could say something about the content compared with the style.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your second comment, something very simple in a complicated way. As for content compared with style, quite honestly, I was tremendously influenced by Theodore Roethke. His poems see to trace the path of the spirits from solitude to self-realization. I wrote the poem during a two-week stay at an orphanage in rural India, many nights spent walking through the desert.

---

a lot of useful commentary

I was all nervous posting my poem and therefore overlooked something as simple, yet important, as spelling. As for word choice, I'll fight the idea of incompetence. I chose 'mordant' as it means a sort of "biting humor." I wanted to illustrate that sarcastic becomes a primary means of dealing with the old world as a person ages and become embittered. I can understand your comment about moppet paired with volition. Though, once again, it was intentional. I wanted to illuminate how children are thought of as being void of person-hood, but if one could possess their the freedom of the childhood spirit with the independence of adult volition--well, it would be an enjoyable way to exist. Still, perhaps I these words just don't sound right together.

You liked the second stanza? Hmm, probably my least favorite.

I understand, as well, your comment about 'somnambulant gaiety' seemingly out of place. I wanted to demonstrate how depression/sadness/anger/what-have-you, sometimes mysteriously departs without any conscious effort on the part of the person.

Your comments about punctuation are appreciated. I do not consider it much, my consideration is usually, "I want to leave it open for the reader." But, I do that far too frequently.

As for what the poem is about, I basically wanted to illustrate the difficulties of an aging spirit, nostalgia for the freedom of childhood and how this is at times unconsciously obtained. However, after reading your comments, I believe I've straying to far from these ideas. It becomes confusing when I bring in the pronoun "we" at the end as well.

"ecce signum" means "behold the sign" or "look at the proof."

yee, i look forward to doing some editing!

[Pete Ak]

Hi Sar, I quite enjoyed working my way through your poem, which is a double edged compliment in that I was sufficiently motivated to re-read a coupe of times but it did require working through! I felt comfortable with stanzas 1&2, less enamored by S3 where I first wondered if to touch, play or mold offered less obvious interpretations and if the difference between them was significant. Also, 'moppet of volition' whilst a pleasing line I can't figure out what it's referring to. I was confused and thrown right off track in S4 by the religious reference and sleepwalking gaily!! (not 'gayly') The final Stanza feels as if it should be important but I'm afraid I think I need a better understanding of what preceded it to do it justice.
You have a number of memorable poetic phrases which I like a lot, L1 in particular, however using the word 'face' in such a successful line serves to diminish it when you use it later, ('mangled face') you might look for an alternate word and see how it fits.
Finally - you were reminded wisely, by tectak of the need for effective punctuation and proper spelling.

[heslopian]

The poem feels a bit too wordy and dense at times, but then I could also say that about Hart Crane's poems. Sometimes the phrasing works, like "somnambulat gaiety", which is a nice juxtaposition of seemingly opposing words to create a distinct idea. The problem I have, I think, is that your style doesn't always gel with your rhythm, making the poem clunky and obtuse at times.
I'd recommend thinking about each line to see if you can simplify it. For instance, "the argumentative finger/authoritatively combined with the finality of the fist" could be changed to "the quarrelous finger/dogmatically combined with a fist's closure". That's just an example; you might of course dispute some of the alternative words I've given. I'd also suggest adding more narrative; as it is the poem simply describes feelings and ideas. Some more action and character could help push your point across. This is all JMHO of course. Thanks for the read

[Mr. Shankly]

Thank you again for commentary Pete and Heslopian.

In editing I've come up across exactly what you've described--heavy words disrupting the flow. Then I edited so much (basically adding narrative, trying to make idea more lucid) it might as well have been a different poem. Ahhh. We'll I've give it a few more days (to see if I can flesh anything out) then re-post.

[lolo]

Hi Shankly,
Thanks for reading my poem, returning the favour.

The Latin title piques the reader's interest and ties in very well with the philosophical bend of the poem.

With your permission I'd like to suggest a few edits, please feel free to ignore them if you disagree.

the wilt of the face into a sag
complements living in fleshy raiments (vestige of humanly rags maybe sounds wordy for something as simple as impermanent body)
is it a blessing or a curse, to feel all without recourse? ( good internal rhyme here)
only a mordant wit can weather the worst

anargumentative finger
authoritatively combined intothe finality of a fist
is a congenial covenant to living
sealed with a forced kiss.

to touch, to play, or to mold
all desires are butone:
to comb this mangled face into a
moppet of your own volition

ah, to be alone!
to sleepwalk in gaiety (somnambulant sounds wordy when sleep walking will sound just as good)
the barren desert is a friend. (best is superfluous amd my is repeated in the next line)
ecclesiastical bells ring in my heart

creation is not merely a beautiful work of art (not sure feeling is needed at all)
whether we go or whether we stay
the result is the same
for a time, we were only game (not sure what you're saying here- whether we are a game or we are game to play only a while)