arizona allows concealed weapons

[billy]

Thats all well and good and makes sense. Problem is as I see it is this.
They have the right at birth, it was given as a means to protect the republic from all enemies foreign and domestic. It can not be taken away or changed, if it is tried they have the right to spill blood to protect it that one can not be changed either. The men that wrote the constitution were some of the most clever people that lived.
There is no arguement that I have heard that will convince me that removing any of or changeing any of them is good for the republic or the freedom for which it stands.
No I don't live there but I have family that does.
Robbers and criminals be damned, you can not scare people into giving up their rights and freedoms. It may blind side them for a short bit but in the end you will not get away with it.

whose on about making them give up any rights.

basically if i follow the credo you're using here, i eat meat i can eat my neighbor. i learnt to eat meat at 10 months so i'll eat your ass.

i have the right of free speech i can call anyone i know whose black a blacky.

if i have the right to bear arms does that mean i can drive a tank down main street and get away with it?


you talk of rights.
how come arizona is only the third state to allow the buying and carrying of a concealed weapon without a permit ?

why does anyone need a permit if its a right?

i just saying. let anyone who wants a guns have one but make sure they can use it properly first.

if not lets arm all the down syndrome adult and any other do lally who thinks mmm it would be cool to have a gun.

lets arm those autistic people who like to slap themselves around the head or who wear mittens for protection.

lets arm all the criminals as they get released from the pen.
it would be silly to do all those things wouldn't it, even if it does abuse their right to carry arms.

it's no sillier than giving a 38. to some dizzy blonde whose liable to blow her tits off while she's putting on her make up.

or some silly fucker whose liabe to leave it laying around where his kids are because he's a fuckin moron.

so because of the above. i think everyone should have at least a minimal training in the use of hand guns.

my last post on the topic.

just a thought benny:

if they have a right at birth, why aren't ten year olds allowed to carry concealed weapons ?
or legally own a hand gun?

The permit is to collect money just as all permits are nothing more. As for your arguements they are way out there just as most arguments for gun controll are.
The people you speak of would have to be armed by someone else as they would never think to get one themselves.
A drivers license is a privilage not a right.
Owning a gun is a right not a privilage.

and the right to free speech? that thing you can get arrested for.
are you saying all rights should come without restrictions. the right to have prodigy. does that mean you can just fuck who who wish in the hope of having a kid?
and again, if it's a right why aren't ten year olds allowed to buy a concealed weapon? or is it only a right for adults?

[Benny2guns]

I would think you have to be old enough to vote but I am not sure.

[billy]

I would think you have to be old enough to vote but I am not sure.

and why does one have to be old enough to vote? and if age is a restriction, doesn't that mean it's only a right under certain conditions, which in effect stop it being a right and make a it a privilege for older people?

[Benny2guns]

I would think you have to be old enough to vote but I am not sure.

and why does one have to be old enough to vote? and if age is a restriction, doesn't that mean it's only a right under certain conditions, which in effect stop it being a right and make a it a privilege for older people?

Well no because I believe that your not actually a full fledged citizen till your of age to vote bill. Till then your parents are suppoesd to take care of your rights in trust.

[billy]

I would think you have to be old enough to vote but I am not sure.

and why does one have to be old enough to vote? and if age is a restriction, doesn't that mean it's only a right under certain conditions, which in effect stop it being a right and make a it a privilege for older people?

Well no because I believe that your not actually a full fledged citizen till your of age to vote bill. Till then your parents are suppoesd to take care of your rights in trust.

i'm pretty sure the bill of rights doesn't say citizen but person or people ben
i take a child isn't a person then and has no rights? or what rights a child have has to depend on certain criteria. which again stops them being rights

2nd amendment;

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

an amendment which has been amended on more than one occasion.

[Benny2guns]

Thats not so. It is a right and not a privilage, thats why they can infact buy and carry them and in some states without a permit. I again am just stating the facts and my opinion. I am no lawer but if it were not so then they would not have them. I have a copy of the constitution and they do have the right to bare arms, no question about it. It does not say they can apply to get a permit or they have to get a permit. It does not say anything about it being a privlage.

[billy]

Thats not so. It is a right and not a privilage, thats why they can infact buy and carry them and in some states without a permit. I again am just stating the facts and my opinion. I am no lawer but if it were not so then they would not have them. I have a copy of the constitution and they do have the right to bare arms, no question about it. It does not say they can apply to get a permit or they have to get a permit. It does not say anything about it being a privlage.

does a young person under the age of 18 have the rifht to carry a concealed weapon like an adult does. if not then wheres the kids right, he's part of the people mentioned in the 2nd isn't he?

the fact is, the 2nd was meant to cover militia in the protection of their state and if necessary to go to war.are ex prisoners allowed to carry concealed weapons? or can they have their rights abused?

[Benny2guns]

You know I am not sure but I do not recall reading anywhere where it say's that they can not do so.

[billy]

You know I am not sure but I do not recall reading anywhere where it say's that they can not do so.

Anyone who has been convicted of a felony is banned by federal law from ever possessing "any firearm or ammunition." Specifically a person "convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" cannot possess any firearm in any location. 18 U.S.C. 922(g) is the federal law that prohibits anyone ever convicted of any felony to ever possess any firearm either inside or outside of his home. The federal punishment for felon gun possession is up to 10 years in prison.

Federal law provides significant penalties for felons in possession of weapons, unless the felon has his rights restored by the convicting state.

can a right be taken from a person? if so a right can also be conditional.

does a young person under the age of 18 have the right to carry a concealed weapon like an adult does. if not then wheres the kids right, he's part of the people mentioned in the 2nd isn't he?

[Benny2guns]

Well like I said I do not recall reading where it says they can not and without reading it again...of which at presant I have no intention of doing....then my answer remains the same.
Yes people that have been convicted of crimes loose there rights, not all of them but alot of them. So what is your point? I have no arguement with that and I really don't think there is one.

[billy]

Well like I said I do not recall reading where it says they can not and without reading it again...of which at presant I have no intention of doing....then my answer remains the same.
Yes people that have been convicted of crimes loose there rights, not all of them but alot of them. So what is your point? I have no arguement with that and I really don't think there is one.

my point is this.

if it's conditional for one person why can't it be conditional for everyone.

show you can use a firearm safely and you can have one. (it's a condition of right.)

be 18 and you can have a licence if you pass your test. believe it or not driving once you pass your test is a right. you can't be stopped from driving unless you break the law, which makes it a right.

[Benny2guns]

Well like I said I do not recall reading where it says they can not and without reading it again...of which at presant I have no intention of doing....then my answer remains the same.
Yes people that have been convicted of crimes loose there rights, not all of them but alot of them. So what is your point? I have no arguement with that and I really don't think there is one.

my point is this.

if it's conditional for one person why can't it be conditional for everyone.

show you can use a firearm safely and you can have one. (it's a condition of right.)

be 18 and you can have a licence if you pass your test. believe it or not driving once you pass your test is a right. you can't be stopped from driving unless you break the law, which makes it a right.

Believe it or not it is not a right in north america.It is a privlage. You can loose your license for owing money here. We are not born in a country with a constitution that states we have the right to drive a motor car.

[billy]

Well like I said I do not recall reading where it says they can not and without reading it again...of which at presant I have no intention of doing....then my answer remains the same.
Yes people that have been convicted of crimes loose there rights, not all of them but alot of them. So what is your point? I have no arguement with that and I really don't think there is one.

my point is this.

if it's conditional for one person why can't it be conditional for everyone.

show you can use a firearm safely and you can have one. (it's a condition of right.)

be 18 and you can have a licence if you pass your test. believe it or not driving once you pass your test is a right. you can't be stopped from driving unless you break the law, which makes it a right.

Believe it or not it is not a right in north america.It is a privlage. You can loose your license for owing money here. We are not born in a country with a constitution that states we have the right to drive a motor car.

is canada covered by the 2nd amendment?

so you're saying a right has to be declared? mmmm

so if it wasn't written on a piece of paper carrying a firearm wouldn't be a right....that sorta sounds like it's only a right because someone said it was.
not my idea of what a true right is. for me a right is something that's intrinsic. like freedom. something we don't need written down on a piece of paper. the bill of rights, i say phooey, people should already know that all men are equal. (they even say under one god which actually takes away the freedom of belonging to another religion or none)

if they can take away a right by your definition it isn't a right. they can take your guns if you misuse them. they're are always conditions to any rights.
and that fact is indisputable.

so if you pass your driving test they can stop you from driving for nothing?

[Benny2guns]

Well like I said I do not recall reading where it says they can not and without reading it again...of which at presant I have no intention of doing....then my answer remains the same.
Yes people that have been convicted of crimes loose there rights, not all of them but alot of them. So what is your point? I have no arguement with that and I really don't think there is one.

my point is this.

if it's conditional for one person why can't it be conditional for everyone.

show you can use a firearm safely and you can have one. (it's a condition of right.)

be 18 and you can have a licence if you pass your test. believe it or not driving once you pass your test is a right. you can't be stopped from driving unless you break the law, which makes it a right.

Believe it or not it is not a right in north america.It is a privlage. You can loose your license for owing money here. We are not born in a country with a constitution that states we have the right to drive a motor car.

is canada covered by the 2nd amendment?

so you're saying a right has to be declared? mmmm

so if it wasn't written on a piece of paper carrying a firearm wouldn't be a right....that sorta sounds like it's only a right because someone said it was.
not my idea of what a true right is. for me a right is something that's intrinsic. like freedom. something we don't need written down on a piece of paper. the bill of rights, i say phooey, people should already know that all men are equal. (they even say under one god which actually takes away the freedom of belonging to another religion or none)

if they can take away a right by your definition it isn't a right. they can take your guns if you misuse them. they're are always conditions to any rights.
and that fact is indisputable.

so if you pass your driving test they can stop you from driving for nothing?

Yes like if you owe money. If you can't pay insurance. If you can't pay your anual fees. Lot of reasons they can take away your driving privlages here. It is a privilage.
As far as rights being put on paper, thats the way it is, if you can't prove it by way of paper documentation then it does not exsist. I did not make the rules here. Thats what I was born into just like you.
And I still stand behind their right to bare and carry firearms. It is their right and that is still a fact. If there are permits involved and they have to be paied every year then I suspect they loose their right to carry them untill such time as the fees are paied, I don't know but it sounds like an apropriate money grab to me. They still retain the right to have one bill.
Unlike a drivers license where they take it physically from you.

[billy]

so you have the right to bear arms as long as the permit fees are paid ?

as long as your not a kid

as long as you're not an ex con

as long as the guns registered

as long as you don't pull it out in a shopping mall. (they can make you hand the gun over at the door.) their right to do so exceeds your right to bear arms.

as long as you don't take one on a plane

as long as you don't take one into a government building

as long as your not drunk

as long as your not under the influence of drugs.

as long as ........and the list goes on.

i can see where it's a right.

so do they have the 2nd amendment in canada?

correct me if i'm wrong but all gun owners in canada need a permit.?
and you can have a gun in candada as long as you have a permit.

permit is another way of saying permission btw.

well not in arizona lol.

apparently canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment so it's not a right there.
if i'm wrong i'd gladly read a source when it says canadians can freely bear arms. and
that it's their right to do so.

[Benny2guns]

so you have the right to bear arms as long as the permit fees are paid ?

as long as your not a kid

as long as you're not an ex con

as long as the guns registered

as long as you don't pull it out in a shopping mall. (they can make you hand the gun over at the door.) their right to do so exceeds your right to bear arms.

as long as you don't take one on a plane

as long as you don't take one into a government building

as long as your not drunk

as long as your not under the influence of drugs.

as long as ........and the list goes on.

i can see where it's a right.

so do they have the 2nd amendment in canada?

correct me if i'm wrong but all gun owners in canada need a permit.?
and you can have a gun in candada as long as you have a permit.

permit is another way of saying permission btw.

well not in arizona lol.

apparently canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment so it's not a right there.
if i'm wrong i'd gladly read a source when it says canadians can freely bear arms. and
that it's their right to do so.

Where did I say Canadains had that right? We don't. We pay.
I said I stand behind their right to bare arms, Big difference. And I do. Just because I don't have that right does not mean I want to see someone else's taken away or restricted.
They have the right, get over it and fight to get your own right to bare arms if you wish.
The laws here in Canada have been eroded to alow for manditory gun registration and renewable permits every year for every weapon you have. It was supposed to stop criminals from getting them. It did no such thing. What it did do was create a money grab and a list of people that have regestered weapons so they will no where to go to collect them when the time comes.
The majority of gun owners did not register all of their weapons. Alot of them did not regester any. Those laws created a whole new batch of criminals over night. People that had never broken any law but were smart enough to say the hell with this crap, enough is enough.
You will find that there is a very large amount of support for gun rights in the states from gun owners in Canada as we have had that con played on us already.

[Benny2guns]

so you have the right to bear arms as long as the permit fees are paid ?

as long as your not a kid

as long as you're not an ex con

as long as the guns registered

as long as you don't pull it out in a shopping mall. (they can make you hand the gun over at the door.) their right to do so exceeds your right to bear arms.

as long as you don't take one on a plane

as long as you don't take one into a government building

as long as your not drunk

as long as your not under the influence of drugs.

as long as ........and the list goes on.

i can see where it's a right.

so do they have the 2nd amendment in canada?

correct me if i'm wrong but all gun owners in canada need a permit.?
and you can have a gun in candada as long as you have a permit.

permit is another way of saying permission btw.

well not in arizona lol.

apparently canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment so it's not a right there.
if i'm wrong i'd gladly read a source when it says canadians can freely bear arms. and
that it's their right to do so.

Where did I say Canadains had that right? We don't. We pay.
I said I stand behind their right to bare arms, Big difference. And I do. Just because I don't have that right does not mean I want to see someone else's taken away or restricted.
They have the right, get over it and fight to get your own right to bare arms if you wish.
The laws here in Canada have been eroded to alow for manditory gun registration and renewable permits every year for every weapon you have. It was supposed to stop criminals from getting them. It did no such thing. What it did do was create a money grab and a list of people that have regestered weapons so they will no where to go to collect them when the time comes.
The majority of gun owners did not register all of their weapons. Alot of them did not regester any. Those laws created a whole new batch of criminals over night. People that had never broken any law but were smart enough to say the hell with this crap, enough is enough.
You will find that there is a very large amount of support for gun rights in the states from gun owners in Canada as we have had that con played on us already.

By the way, my kids both handle weapons, my son since the age of 10 and my daughter the same. My son is a crack shot at anything on the run at 100 yards in the bush. Ammo is not cheap.

[billy]

so you have the right to bear arms as long as the permit fees are paid ?

as long as your not a kid

as long as you're not an ex con

as long as the guns registered

as long as you don't pull it out in a shopping mall. (they can make you hand the gun over at the door.) their right to do so exceeds your right to bear arms.

as long as you don't take one on a plane

as long as you don't take one into a government building

as long as your not drunk

as long as your not under the influence of drugs.

as long as ........and the list goes on.

i can see where it's a right.

so do they have the 2nd amendment in canada?

correct me if i'm wrong but all gun owners in canada need a permit.?
and you can have a gun in candada as long as you have a permit.

permit is another way of saying permission btw.

well not in arizona lol.

apparently canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment so it's not a right there.
if i'm wrong i'd gladly read a source when it says canadians can freely bear arms. and
that it's their right to do so.

Where did I say Canadains had that right? We don't. We pay.
I said I stand behind their right to bare arms, Big difference. And I do. Just because I don't have that right does not mean I want to see someone else's taken away or restricted.
They have the right, get over it and fight to get your own right to bare arms if you wish.
The laws here in Canada have been eroded to alow for manditory gun registration and renewable permits every year for every weapon you have. It was supposed to stop criminals from getting them. It did no such thing. What it did do was create a money grab and a list of people that have regestered weapons so they will no where to go to collect them when the time comes.
The majority of gun owners did not register all of their weapons. Alot of them did not regester any. Those laws created a whole new batch of criminals over night. People that had never broken any law but were smart enough to say the hell with this crap, enough is enough.
You will find that there is a very large amount of support for gun rights in the states from gun owners in Canada as we have had that con played on us already.

By the way, my kids both handle weapons, my son since the age of 10 and my daughter the same. My son is a crack shot at anything on the run at 100 yards in the bush. Ammo is not cheap.

and he walks around with a concealed weapon?

my daughter could drive a car at 11 but i wouldn't let her drive one on the streets.

so they have that right. yet the law has only just been passed. so it's only a right now because someone tells them it is?

can you define what the right to bear arms in the 2nd amendment actually means? i'm pretty sure it wasn't about walking through town carrying a concealed weapon. but i'm open to being shown differently.

[Benny2guns]

so you have the right to bear arms as long as the permit fees are paid ?

as long as your not a kid

as long as you're not an ex con

as long as the guns registered

as long as you don't pull it out in a shopping mall. (they can make you hand the gun over at the door.) their right to do so exceeds your right to bear arms.

as long as you don't take one on a plane

as long as you don't take one into a government building

as long as your not drunk

as long as your not under the influence of drugs.

as long as ........and the list goes on.

i can see where it's a right.

so do they have the 2nd amendment in canada?

correct me if i'm wrong but all gun owners in canada need a permit.?
and you can have a gun in candada as long as you have a permit.

permit is another way of saying permission btw.

well not in arizona lol.

apparently canada doesn't have a 2nd amendment so it's not a right there.
if i'm wrong i'd gladly read a source when it says canadians can freely bear arms. and
that it's their right to do so.

Where did I say Canadains had that right? We don't. We pay.
I said I stand behind their right to bare arms, Big difference. And I do. Just because I don't have that right does not mean I want to see someone else's taken away or restricted.
They have the right, get over it and fight to get your own right to bare arms if you wish.
The laws here in Canada have been eroded to alow for manditory gun registration and renewable permits every year for every weapon you have. It was supposed to stop criminals from getting them. It did no such thing. What it did do was create a money grab and a list of people that have regestered weapons so they will no where to go to collect them when the time comes.
The majority of gun owners did not register all of their weapons. Alot of them did not regester any. Those laws created a whole new batch of criminals over night. People that had never broken any law but were smart enough to say the hell with this crap, enough is enough.
You will find that there is a very large amount of support for gun rights in the states from gun owners in Canada as we have had that con played on us already.

By the way, my kids both handle weapons, my son since the age of 10 and my daughter the same. My son is a crack shot at anything on the run at 100 yards in the bush. Ammo is not cheap.

and he walks around with a concealed weapon?

my daughter could drive a car at 11 but i wouldn't let her drive one on the streets.

so they have that right. yet the law has only just been passed. so it's only a right now because someone tells them it is?

can you define what the right to bear arms in the 2nd amendment actually means? i'm pretty sure it wasn't about walking through town carrying a concealed weapon. but i'm open to being shown differently.

No we do not carry conceled weapons here.
No it is not a right here, it is a privilage same as driving a car.
Atleast she new how to drive, pluss one for you bill.
Well they have always had the right. The government had been tring to take it away through controlls just like in so many other countries. If you place enough restrictions at some point the right becomes a privilage I would say.
These few states in the union are making a statement I would say and loud enough for the rest to hear. JMO
Here is a summery of the first 10
1st Amendment
Congress may not establish a religion, restrict free speech or press freedom, or deprive citizens of rights to assemble peacefully or petition the government.
2nd Amendment
The government may not infringe on the rights of the people to keep and bear arms.
3rd Amendment
Soldiers may not be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner.
4th Amendment
Neither individuals nor their homes and property may be searched or seized unless a legal warrant, based on probable cause, is issued.
5th Amendment
An individual charged with a crime is entitled to due legal process, cannot be tried twice for the same offense, and cannot be compelled to testify against him- or herself. The government cannot seize private property without just compensation.
6th Amendment
An individual accused of a crime has the right to a speedy trial by an impartial jury, to be informed of the charges, to confront witnesses, and be assisted by legal counsel
7th Amendment
In civil litigation, parties are entitled to a jury trial, and no fact established by a jury may be re-examined in any higher court.
8th Amendment
The government may not impose excessive bail, excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishments.
9th Amendment
The listing of specific rights in the Constitution does not deny or disparage other rights retained by the people.
10th Amendment
Powers not delegated to the U.S. federal government by the Constitution are reserved to state governments and to the people.

[billy]

2nd Amendment
The government may not infringe on the rights of the people to keep and bear arms.

thats out of context. you left out ;
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, The government may not infringe on the rights of the people to keep and bear arms.

since then many amendments have been made.
such has you can't saw own a sawn off shotgun.

still we're leaving the topic behind,

i say a person should know how to use a weapon before being allowed to buy one , whatever the country what ever the laws. (which includes concealed weapons) that's me done.