Bleach

[Universalchild]

Very fresh raw write. If I could play guitar I would probably turn this into a song. Alas, I am a poet, not a musician.

edit v. 3

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze...

I guess it's true,
these thoughts of you,
leave me so confused,
and knowingly used.

When the milk curdles in your tea,
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
being stuck for hours in the rain.
Like the bird shit on your coat,
and when phlegm sticks in your throat,
that important thing that you forgot,
or the moment when you're caught.

I want to cover my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
nothing really makes sense,
real world is too intense.

Being poor with lots of debt,
shagging someone with regret,
it's running out of things to say,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that bad feeling in your gut,
it's not knowing how to live,
and wanting more than they will give.

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
I try to think straight.

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling trapped in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking smiles when you feel shit,
the day you learn that this it.

----

edit v. 2

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze...

I guess it's true,
these thoughts of you,
I never understand,
still I try to withstand.

Like when milk curdles in your tea,
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
getting stuck for hours in the rain.
It's the bird shit on your coat,
and the phlegm stuck in your throat,
that important thing that you forgot,
and the moment when you're caught.

My best memories fast become lost,
such long nights come at this cost...

I want to cover my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
nothing really makes sense,
real world is intense.

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling shit in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking a smile when you feel shit,
the day you learn that this it.

Trying to figure out what love might mean,
when all emotions turn confused obscene...

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
born out of lies or hate.

Becoming stuck with lots of debt,
shagging someone with regret,
having to work on your birthday,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that shit feeling in your gut,
like not knowing how to really live,
and wanting more then they will give.

I think most of us just want to be free,
such a shame that we can't seem to see,
because the cage is of nothing real,
made of our dissatisfied ideal.

-----------------

Original version

Sometimes it's true,
these thoughts of you,
never will I understand,
still I try to withstand.

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze...

Like when milk curdles in your tea,
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
getting stuck for hours in the rain.
It's the bird shit on your coat,
and the flem stuck in your throat,
cleaning burnt bits off the pan,
or getting caught out by the man.

I want to shut my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
hope my words make sense,
this doubt held in suspense.

Such moments can fast become lost,
I start to wonder what it might cost...

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling shit in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking a smile when you feel shit,
the day you learn that this it.

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
born out of lies or hate.

Trying to figure out what love might mean,
with all emotion so confused and obscene...

Becoming stuck with lots of debt,
shagging someone with regret,
going to work on your birthday,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that shit feeling in your gut,
like not knowing how to really live,
and wanting more then they will give.

I think most of us just want to be free,
such a shame that we can't seem to see,
because the cage is of nothing real,
it's only our fear and poor ideal.

[addy]

I do get the string of thought thing, and structure-wise you could compare it to a song with "verses" (where most of the interesting meat is, I think). The rundown of metaphors, I thought, were good overall. They work fantastically when they are direct and down-to-earth.

The other stuff in between... didn't grab me at all. Lines like these:
I want to shut my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
hope my words make sense,
this doubt held in suspense.
I know it's attempting to give some context to the narration, but it just reads as generic and vague to me. as a reader, it barely tells me anything. I think the worst offender might be the first stanza though, which seems highly irrelevant to the rest of the poem. You can cut it out without much fanfare, imo.

[billy]

Very fresh raw write. If I could play guitar I would probably turn this into a song. Alas, I am a poet, not a musician. [that's what we all say ]

I like most of it, but a few lines feel off to me. It is meant to be have a sense of being said by someone as a string of thought rather then being particularly articulate and ornate in form. I don't normally swear in poetry but I felt it fitted this. the words in bold above, really do take away something from the poem that the reader needs to discover for themselves. by telling us what you intend the poem to be/do you create a kind of anti climax and if you fail to bring the goods it fails a lot more.

This is dissatisfaction. this line leaves me out on a limb.

----

Sometimes it's true,
these thoughts of you,
never will I understand,
still I try to withstand. a weak starting verse with yoda speak on the 3rd line.

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze... now this would make a great opener, it has strength and lends to the readers imagination. good lines.

Like when milk curdles in your tea,
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
getting stuck for hours in the rain.
It's the bird shit on your coat,
and the flem stuck in your throat, phlegm (i love that word)
cleaning burnt bits off the pan,
or getting caught out by the man. it feels forced this line spoils the verse a little. feels too "jive" man, do people still use that phrase, ('the man' is cliche) i really like some of the imagery in the the rest of the verse, the originality is solid

I want to shut my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
hope my words make sense,
this doubt held in suspense. fluff verse that adds less than a little to two strong verses.

Such moments can fast become lost,
I start to wonder what it might cost... these lines feel too hall mark very weak.

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling shit in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking a smile when you feel shit,
the day you learn that this it. see...here again you get some good images going, it has emotives that work as well.

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
born out of lies or hate.

Trying to figure out what love might mean,
when all emotions turn confused and obscene... is and needed?

Becoming stuck with lots of debt,
shagging someone with regret, i've done so many times but even ugly girls need sex (good line)
having to work on your birthday,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that shit feeling in your gut,
like not knowing how to really live,
and wanting more then they will give. another solid verse.

I think most of us just want to be free,
such a shame that we can't seem to see,
because the cage is of nothing real,
it's only our fear and poor ideal. and a very weak finish with this verse.

i like it a lot. i think you need to get rid of chorus type verses as i see them as being very weak. the song thing at the top of the page doesn't make me like them any more than i don't. some (lots) of good strong lines in the piece. i think this is the best poem of yours i've read so far.
i like the way the misery is extended throughout the poem. i do think it would read gazillions better without the 2 liners and 4 liners. the 1st two liner is okay though and would make a solid foundation on which to start the poem.

thanks for the read.

[Universalchild]

@addy

The small four-line stanzas just exist to give it all some context. Otherwise it's just strings of metaphors, you know? And the two-liners are meant to connect them. I might try switching it round when I edit to see if that makes more sense. I see what you mean about them being a bit vague and generic though. I'm not going to get rid of them, but I will try and fix them up. Thanks for the input!

@billy

Yeah I'll delete that bit and let people guess it for themselves. I worry that people won't get where I am coming from.

It is a bit weak, I might swap the four and two-liner arounds. Haha yoda speak :x Point taken. I'll change that in the edit. I agree with you about the serotonin line going first.

Thanks for the spelling correction, I'm sure I knew that hah. I know what you mean about that man line, it is meant to be a bit cliche and "hip" because the voice is young. And yes, people definitely still say "the man" - either that, or maybe me and my friends are all outdated, because someone the other day said "tripping" was retro and I use it all the time! To describe tripping anyway. If I think of a better line I will edit it though. Got a suggestion?

I don't want to swipe too much, but I do think I need to re-write a lot of the small stanzas because they are too generic and weak for the poem. Or, if I do edit them out, I would replace it with more of the others. Thank-you very much for reading & giving feedback, I really appreciate what you say and even though I don't want to cut it up too badly (yet anyway) I totally understand what you mean.

[billy]

if you change the short verse to something that add to the poem then there's no reason to shorten the piece
smashed overtook tripping i think
i can't think of a man substitute off the top of my head that rhymes with pan

did you mean 'the man' as the 'establishment" ?
the beginning is better but the short verses let the good parts down, i think.

[tectak]

Very fresh raw write. If I could play guitar I would probably turn this into a song. Alas, I am a poet, not a musician.


----

edit v. 2

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze...Unlike Addy I do not get, nor do I want to get the free-thought thing. As an ethos, that is my choice but as a critic I can still point out that there is a lack of continuity between stanza 1 and 2.....and I have only got to Stanza 2.

I guess it's true,
these thoughts of you,
I never understand,
still I try to withstand.This is a weak and fascile stanza. Not only does it not follow from S1 but of itself it says very little except that it shouldn't be here...or anywhere. The rhyme scheme is so forced that you have been caught in a mouse trap which you set yourself. The word "withstand" is no companion to anything else in the stanza. What on earth are you "withstanding". There is a precipitous certainty in L4 which just screams out "Help!". Once you set the trap with "understand" you were done for. The way to avoid springing a trap like his is not to set it in the first place. Try a rewrite without "understand" and at the same time try to pre-empt the meaning and ending of the couplet. Try:
I guess it's true,
these thoughts of you,
leave me confused,
distressed, abused.
..........or similar. The idea of being "confused" links to S1

Like when milk curdles in your tea,"like when" is chav-chat. Don't use it unless you are characterising a chav, innit. Try "I watch milk curdle in my tea and try too hard to feel carefree" to follow the previous train of bewildered thinking. The rest of this stanza can be similarly modified but it is your poem.
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
getting stuck for hours in the rain.
It's the bird shit on your coat,What is "It"? You do not say or even imply.
and the phlegm stuck in your throat,
that important thing that you forgot,
and the moment when you're caught.regardless, a good three last lines. Glad to see the spelling correction. A Belgian Kiss is much like a French kiss.....but with more Flem

My best memories fast become lost,
such long nights come at this cost... ...and your point is? This is burst-verse. You probably didn't know you wrote it. So it won't matter if it disappears. It adds very little to the piece except unnecessary distraction; as distinct from deliberate distraction.

I want to cover my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
nothing really makes sense,
real world is intense. Again, a good stanza in concept. If you could gather up the good bits and find tenable links between them you could get something good going on.

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,Why is this tragi-comedy? Not the best flavour. Fish in your fruit bowl, methinks
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling shit in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking a smile when you feel shit,One shit OK. Two shits so soon, verbal diarrhea
the day you learn that this it. Perhaps an overdone theme in this stanza. It has been done so often that it is difficult to bring anything new. The only certainty is that when anyone attempts to capture the negativity of clinical (or circumstantial) depression, it is always written as though it is an entirely new and unique concept. That is the isolationism of depression. Why me? is the lonely cry. I have no answer for the aspiring poet who tries to "imagine" how the drug-addled, depressed character would feel or would express him/herself in a new way. I just avoid trying. Plenty of others will have a go....and they have.

Trying to figure out what love might mean,
when all emotions turn confused obscene...Huge adolescent cliche. This poem is becoming an interesting collection of minutiae which were it not for the random gathering could become a genre. List all of the profound (relative to your age) thoughts which you have/are having and write them down. Voila! A poem. Frankly, that is not too bad an idea. This is good. Please don't say it was your idea all along.....its mine, I tell you..all mine

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
born out of lies or hate. If you say so. No doubt you will back up this statement in the next stanza.

Becoming stuck with lots of debt, lies, all lies....er, sorry, I realy don't get it
shagging someone with regret,Hate...yes....that's it...HATE. Er...sorry, I still don't get it
having to work on your birthday,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that shit feeling in your gut,Shitting again. Yep...HATE it when that happens. Unless it's a LIE
like not knowing how to really live,
and wanting more then they will give Ah...here they come. Its their fault. Those bloody thems are shits, aren't they. Them. Whoever they are. Constant cliche of the disposessed. Heartfelt no doubt but I have heard it all before. Anything new? Sorry. I am getting irritated by myself. Just try to read more poetry and you will see just how worn out this stanza is IN PRINCIPAL. You do, however, make some shrewd and EXCELLENT observations but they are lost due to the inconsistent profundity. Having to work on your birthday just doesn't say mature....yet your own stinking tooth decay and infected paper cut indicate experience way above the rest of the stanza. Very, very good observational effort. More of this and less of that.

I think most of us just want to be free,
such a shame that we can't seem to see,
because the cage is of nothing real,
made of our dissatisfied ideal. Weak and tired end piece. You gave up on yourself. Don't.
Best,
tectak

-----------------

Original version

Sometimes it's true,
these thoughts of you,
never will I understand,
still I try to withstand.

How to describe how I feel some days,
trapped in this serotonin fucked haze...

Like when milk curdles in your tea,
trying too hard to feel carefree,
smelling piss on the subway train,
getting stuck for hours in the rain.
It's the bird shit on your coat,
and the flem stuck in your throat,
cleaning burnt bits off the pan,
or getting caught out by the man.

I want to shut my eyes,
pretend that I am wise,
hope my words make sense,
this doubt held in suspense.

Such moments can fast become lost,
I start to wonder what it might cost...

Weekends fucking with your head,
finding out your cat is dead,
seeing fat when you are thin,
feeling shit in your own skin.
Losing even though you tried,
passing thoughts of suicide,
faking a smile when you feel shit,
the day you learn that this it.

Life can be so good,
I suppose that it should,
most problems self create,
born out of lies or hate.

Trying to figure out what love might mean,
with all emotion so confused and obscene...

Becoming stuck with lots of debt,
shagging someone with regret,
going to work on your birthday,
the stink of your own tooth decay.
It's that infected paper cut,
or that shit feeling in your gut,
like not knowing how to really live,
and wanting more then they will give.

I think most of us just want to be free,
such a shame that we can't seem to see,
because the cage is of nothing real,
it's only our fear and poor ideal.

[Universalchild]

@billy

Maybe it's a sub-cultural difference, but smashed means wasted/hammered/trollied/spangled/muntered/gurning like when you're doing uppers, whereas tripping is doing mushrooms/acid.

I changed the man line to getting caught, erased the pan line. I miss the pan line though haha. Could I replace some of the four liners with another big stanza or would that be overkill? I don't want to lose the context too much though.

@tectak

I like your suggestion, actually. It still expresses what I'm trying to say.

It's meant to be chav-chat! Or at least, it's meant to sound "common" - I get what you mean though. I might change that line because it grates me a bit too.

"It" is what the whole poem is about. It's a poem about dissatisfaction and depression, the complexity of deep thoughts and the inability to express them. It's difficult to explain but I'm trying my best here.

On the "they" thing... It's just meant to express the dissatisfaction you get with people who take but don't give.

Some of your advice I will be taking on, others not, thanks a lot for your input and feedback!


Did another edit. Cut out some bits, changed others.

[tectak]

@billy

Maybe it's a sub-cultural difference, but smashed means wasted/hammered/trollied/spangled/muntered/gurning like when you're doing uppers, whereas tripping is doing mushrooms/acid.

I changed the man line to getting caught, erased the pan line. I miss the pan line though haha. Could I replace some of the four liners with another big stanza or would that be overkill? I don't want to lose the context too much though.

@tectak

I like your suggestion, actually. It still expresses what I'm trying to say.

It's meant to be chav-chat! Or at least, it's meant to sound "common" - I get what you mean though. I might change that line because it grates me a bit too.

"It" is what the whole poem is about. It's a poem about dissatisfaction and depression, the complexity of deep thoughts and the inability to express them. It's difficult to explain but I'm trying my best here.

On the "they" thing... It's just meant to express the dissatisfaction you get with people who take but don't give.

Some of your advice I will be taking on, others not, thanks a lot for your input and feedback!


Did another edit. Cut out some bits, changed others.

---

@billy

Maybe it's a sub-cultural difference, but smashed means wasted/hammered/trollied/spangled/muntered/gurning like when you're doing uppers, whereas tripping is doing mushrooms/acid. still in character I seetectak

I changed the man line to getting caught, erased the pan line. I miss the pan line though haha. Could I replace some of the four liners with another big stanza or would that be overkill? I don't want to lose the context too much though.

@tectak

I like your suggestion, actually. It still expresses what I'm trying to say.

It's meant to be chav-chat! Or at least, it's meant to sound "common" - I get what you mean though. I might change that line because it grates me a bit too.

"It" is what the whole poem is about. It's a poem about dissatisfaction and depression, the complexity of deep thoughts and the inability to express them. It's difficult to explain but I'm trying my best here.

On the "they" thing... It's just meant to express the dissatisfaction you get with people who take but don't give.

Some of your advice I will be taking on, others not, thanks a lot for your input and feedback!


Did another edit. Cut out some bits, changed others.

[Universalchild]

@tectak

Haha well frankly I've never cared for the whole like conjunction/preposition debate, I have a lot better things to worry and care about other then those kind of grammar specifics, so excuse me using it : P

[tectak]

@tectak

Haha well frankly I've never cared for the whole like conjunction/preposition debate, I have a lot better things to worry and care about other then those kind of grammar specifics, so excuse me using it : P

Hey....we are on to something here! Maybe we should complile a list of all the things we don't care about; you know,spelling,punctuation,grammatical correctness, the meaning of words etc and submit the list on membership.
It sure would make critting easier

[Universalchild]

@tectak

I certainly care about it within my actual creative or formal writing, but not my casual writing : ) Sorry if I didn't make that clear. In other words, I love the criticism given on my work, but when it is my speech, I just don't care at all. I'm not a pedantic person with language. I respect that you are, but I would appreciate it if you didn't nit pick everything I say. I know it's hard to hold in those words (I get them when people call beetles bugs, or a skewbald piebald) but if it isn't feedback it doesn't need to be said. I mean, of course you can if you really want to, but this is my poem and I don't want to get into a debate outside of the debate forum, I just want feedback here. You've given really helpful feedback so I'm not trying to be ungrateful, but the added comment felt a bit unrelated.

[billy]

if you're not keen on something and the remark isn't attacking you the poet, ignore it, don't debate it.
and forgive me, if you say it's right it must be, and people who are tripping aren't smashed or out of their skull, in fact they have all their senses and are fully compos mentis. back to the poem;

the four liners still don't cut it. nor does the 'shit' repetition but you're getting there. forgot and caught. almost a half rhyme but it would be better as a total rhyme seeing how all the other rhymes are full ones. if you make one larger verse instead of the four liners, change the words completely as of yet they say almost nothing and take a lot away from the rest of the poem.

back off the poem. it isn't a pissing contest, this feedback thing. we don't say stuff to wind you up and we don't care that you agree with them or not, all we ask is that you look at what was said and weigh it up against what you're aiming for with the poem. if you don't agree, put forward your reasons by all means but telling someone to shove a remark they made about syntax or grammar up their arse because you couldn't care less about a certain period or conjunction isn't being fair. (i was paraphrasing by the way ) people are kind enough to pay your poem respect by leaving feedback. if you slap them, they'll back away and leave feedback where it doesn't hurt to do so.

[Universalchild]

if you're not keen on something and the remark isn't attacking you the poet, ignore it, don't debate it.
and forgive me, if you say it's right it must be, and people who are tripping aren't smashed or out of their skull, in fact they have all their senses and are fully compos mentis. back to the poem;
This is the terminology I and the people I know use. It may seem wrong to you, but it's slang so I don't think it really can be. Someone who is tripping is smashed, but not all smashed people are tripping, do you get what I mean?
he four liners still don't cut it. nor does the 'shit' repetition but you're getting there. forgot and caught. almost a half rhyme but it would be better as a total rhyme seeing how all the other rhymes are full ones. if you make one larger verse instead of the four liners, change the words completely as of yet they say almost nothing and take a lot away from the rest of the poem. Point taken but I'm not sure how much I agree. I will think on it.

back off the poem. it isn't a pissing contest, this feedback thing. we don't say stuff to wind you up and we don't care that you agree with them or not, all we ask is that you look at what was said and weigh it up against what you're aiming for with the poem. if you don't agree, put forward your reasons by all means but telling someone to shove a remark they made about syntax or grammar up their arse because you couldn't care less about a certain period or conjunction isn't being fair. (i was paraphrasing by the way ) people are kind enough to pay your poem respect by leaving feedback. if you slap them, they'll back away and leave feedback where it doesn't hurt to do so. They weren't remarking on my poem. If I came off as rude I apologize and did not mean to, I was just expressing that I don't want to edit my casual posts, only the poem. So far I have done big edits to the poem so I think it is unfair to say I don't listen or use feedback. In future I will just not say anything but I thought ignoring was rude too.

[billy]

take a look at how others receive feedback.
sorry but i don't get what you mean, we and this includes you, give feedback off what we know or feel. do you understand what i mean?

saying thanks for the feedback, isn't ignoring someone.
i may have missed something but i can't see where your poem wasn't commented on? forgive me.

[Universalchild]

The second reply was not a comment on my poem, it was on me.

When I say smashed, I mean I am in an altered state of mind, normally euphoric. Tripping is when I see visual hallucinations or 'journeying' through sensations. So if I'm tripping I am smashed, but if I'm smashed it doesn't always mean I'm tripping : P If that isn't how you use those words thats cool and I hear you but this is how I use them, and I think that is fine too.

[penguin]

I'd start off like this
How to describe these fucked-up days
trapped in this serotonin haze

Then scrap all the 4 line asides and meditations, they really aren't helping. Then tidy up the rest, try more interesting rhymes, for instance

Being poor with lots of debt - sorry, it sounds juvenile

Shouldering a sack of debt
shagging someone with regret

It's than they will give - not then.

If it were mine I'd remove the punctuation, too, give it more of a list look.

[Universalchild]

Good suggestion thank-you!

It's meant to have a younger edge to it, like someone who is between eighteen and twenty-four? It's intentionally lower brow, basically. I know what you mean though.

Ah thanks for pointing that out, I often forget about than.

[Erthona]

The term "high" has a long usage history (yes, I know). At one time it meant drunk/intoxicated, during the 1960's it came to mean intoxicated on pot. A synonym for high during the 60's-80's period was "stoned". Tripping was originally derived from "acid trip" wherein acid refers to LSD, so through the same time period tripping meant taking and having the effects of LSD, and was later expanded to most hallucinogenic substances such as mushrooms, DMT, and so forth (Technically, even though the active ingredient in pot, THC, is listed as a hallucinogenic, it has never been considered as such by the drug culture).

This is the same evolution one sees in the word "ball". In the fifties "balling" meant dancing. In the seventies the term began to mean sexual intercourse. Terms that are used in subcultures that practice illegal behaviors or whose behavior is about rebelling against the current authority, evolve rapidly so that they stay ahead of common usage, as they are used as code words or phrases. Generally, if a words meaning is based on subcultural usage, and therefore not a common usage, out of consideration for ones readers such usage should probably be footnoted. This should apply to any usage of a word whose definition is listed as slang, a colloquialism, is only found in a specialized dictionary, or is not listed at all.
The terms "high", "smashed", and "tripping" as used in relation to drug/alcohol usage would all meet that criteria.


dale