Saudade

[Universalchild]

Very experimental... My portugese is a bit weak, I am better with spanish, but the poem is set in Brazil!
For some reason can't fix format, blahh.

Not satisfied with edit yet, will return to later.

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Saudade

deep regret

Bones now crushed
into smooth pebbles
progression of nature
her flow of tears
en el rio juruena

in the river juruena

eu te amo

I love you

estoy perido

I am lost

The forest always cries
but we must burn her
ancient trees into capital
o que os olhos não vêem

What the eyes do not see

o coração não sente

the heart does not feel

Vibrant flora
flaming birds
become bloodstains
cardinal sins
por favor
me perdoe

forgive me, please

She found a crystal
with golden veins
for dreaming
I dream too
sonho impossível

impossible dream

castelo no ar

castle in the air

Fate reflected in constellations
follow the stars
I am the river
the flood
and she the fish
destined to lie
forever
e nunca

and ever

en el rio juruena

in the river juruena

[Leanne]

Saudade is such a beautiful word -- isn't it strange that most of the words that have no English equivalent are for emotions? We really write off our feelings too easily... I suppose that's just as well for us, otherwise we'd just be able to use a single word and there'd be no point of a poem

My own Portuguese is non-existent so I'm grateful for the translations but only read them after trying out the left-hand poem in full first, complete with my mangled pronunciation...

"we must burn her
ancient trees in to capital" -- do you mean "into", to make this about deforestation for profit?

Personally I'd remove "vibrant flora" and start that stanza with "flaming birds" (I took the flaming birds to be flamingos but they could just as easily represent parrots or any other bright species, it's a very good image).

"Our fate in the stars" is bordering on cliche and could just as easily be removed.

Overall, this is a very evocative piece of writing that needs a little tightening up. Billy or Mark will no doubt give you a hand with the format as I'm rubbish at that

Thanks for posting!

[addy]

I love your imagery in this; it hits some great notes, bold and austere in all the right places. I don't know if it's a fault of the poem per se, it may just be part of its character.... but i found the story behind it a bit elusive. At first I thought the poem ecological somehow, with "her" as nature (we must burn her, river likened to a flow of tears) but later on you seem to be talking more specifically of a lover. But then, i suppose you were trying to capture something as universal as possible here?

[billy]

try the [ind] [ind] [ind] ind tags code which lets you tab internal spaces and the    space tags which let you fine tune it. lots of work but it's all we have

Saudade

deep regret

Bones now crushed
into smooth pebbles
progression of nature would natures progression work better?
her flow of tears
en el rio juruena

in the river juruena

eu te amo

I love you

estoy perido

I am lost

The forest always cries
but we must burn her
ancient trees in to capital
o que os olhos não vêem

What the eyes don't see

o coração não sente

the heart doesn't feel

Vibrant flora
flaming birds
become bloodstains
cardinal sins great line in relation to the flaming birds line.
por favor
me perdoe

forgive me, please

She found a crystal
with gold inside
for dreaming
I dream too
sonho impossível

impossible dream

castelo no ar

castle in the air

Our fate in the stars is this line needed, (it feels too cliche)
I am the river
and she a fish
perhaps destined
to lie
forever
e nunca

and ever

en el rio juruena

in the river juruena

a cleave poem of sorts by another name. taking the skewed format into account i really like the way it's done. after reading it a couple of times, i thought it would be great if you could fill in the missing lines with the Portuguese. just an idea. it's a sad but pleasing read.

thanks for showing it to us.

[Erthona]

I like the evocative quality. The only problem, besides what has already been noted, is the use of the Portuguese when it is not necessary, such as "en el rio juruena" en=in el=the rio=river. It doesn't really say any more in Portuguese than it does in English. When it cannot be literally translated it makes sense, but in the above example it does not. And if you are going to use phrase such as

"o coração não sente" then I would translate it "the heart feels not" although literally I guess it means, "the heart doesn't sense". So it would read

What the eyes don't see

the heart feels not

Which I think lends it a better sense of poignancy. The reversed syntax can be used to good effect here.

Dale

[Universalchild]

@Leanna

I really love saudade as well, I also find it amazing how many words just don't have a real English translation. My intention is that people read the poem first and then the translation, so it might be better for them to be sat at the bottom of the page?

Eek, it is meant to be "into" I'll get on and edit that.

The flaming birds are refering to vermilion flycatchers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermilion_Flycatcher ) - which generally live around water. However, I think it could really apply to many of the birds found in Brazil! Lots of rich colours. I do agree with you actually, I do think I need to say vibrant flora, I will mull over that one.

It is a cliche line, I'm terrible when it comes to anything even touching on romantic. I will either get rid of it or find a way to change it. I wanted to have some kind of starry imagery though.

@addy

Thank-you! The voice of the poem is meant to be split between the loss of Brazil (deforestation) and also the loss of a lover. It is meant to be a fairly enigmatic poem which can be taken in various different ways. The story behind it is based on a man who has lost his wife and believes it is a punishment from god because he works for logging company and feels strong remorse for what they do to the forest. The wife and forest are meant to intertwine within the poem. The last two stanzas are my pitiful attempt at trying to express his spirituality using the belief in the power of crystals and starsigns/fate, with the crystal being rutilated quartz (connected with spirit communication and dreams) and the chosen star signs (aquarius and pisces) are meant to represent him being as masculine destructive force (aquarious caused a mythical great flood) and the split feminine role (as pisces is two fish : P) but this might all be a bit weak and hard to understand. I'm admittedly not great with symbolism!

@billy

Okay, I will try! Or I might move the translations to the bottom.

I will try it with natures progression when I edit. And yeah the starry line is cliche, I think I need to rephrase it, but I'm trying to refer to starsigns. As said above, I'm not great with using symbolism, I need to think on it more. It doesn't help that I don't believe in astrology anyway!

I'm glad it has been enjoyed thus far.

@Dale

I see what you mean, I'll definitely think on it. My portugese isn't great, I admit, so thanks for helping me out with that one.

[billy]

instead of stars, why not use constellations.

if it's to do with astrology?

[addy]

@addy

Thank-you! The voice of the poem is meant to be split between the loss of Brazil (deforestation) and also the loss of a lover. It is meant to be a fairly enigmatic poem which can be taken in various different ways. The story behind it is based on a man who has lost his wife and believes it is a punishment from god because he works for logging company and feels strong remorse for what they do to the forest. The wife and forest are meant to intertwine within the poem. The last two stanzas are my pitiful attempt at trying to express his spirituality using the belief in the power of crystals and starsigns/fate, with the crystal being rutilated quartz (connected with spirit communication and dreams) and the chosen star signs (aquarius and pisces) are meant to represent him being as masculine destructive force (aquarious caused a mythical great flood) and the split feminine role (as pisces is two fish : P) but this might all be a bit weak and hard to understand. I'm admittedly not great with symbolism!

Ooh! i knew there was an enigma there, and now that you're describing there it sounds freaking awesome. The symbolism you chose is good, you just need to emphasize it more somehow,or make the poem a wee bit longer so you can put all that glorious detail in. Obviously word choice is key. For instance, I like the idea of you associating the crystal with dreaming, but I missed it a little because of "castles in the air", an image that does not refer to dreamscapes but rather to wishes (which may be something slightly different).

[Universalchild]

@billy

That is a good idea actually.

@addy

Yeah I think I need a couple more stanzas to stretch it out, I will definitely spend some time working on it. I love the story. I tried to make it obvious that she drowned with the continued mention of rivers.

[Erthona]

PS I probably would not use contraction with this. So:

What the eyes do not see,
the heart does not feel.

Unless you reverse the order and write

The heart feels not,
what the eyes don't see.

Almost have to do that for the rhythmical quality of it. I think I like the second one the best myself. I think it catches the essence of it better. Of course literally it conveys a more visceral effect as "sente" would translate as sense (although it can carry the connotation of regret).

"vêem" on the other hand literally means view, from the Latin "vīsus" (vision or vista I think), but "behold" probably works better when taking both lines into account.

So

The heart senses not
what the eyes do not behold.

Yes, that seems the more poetic translation and puts me in mind of Rumi.

Somewhat beside the point, but did you know that "romantic love" is a purely Western concept, and one that arose in the Middle Ages as a response to goddess worship being forced underground, thus the development of the "courtly love tradition", later to be satirized in Don Quixote. It was an acceptable way to worship the goddess by projecting that worship onto a human woman and doing chivalrous deeds in her name. Initially it was always chaste, but as we see in the tale of Gwen and Lance, or Tristan and Isolde, it did not stay that way. It became a major vehicle for tragic plays, as two people (a man and a woman) are so overcome by the passion of this illicit love they betray themselves and everyone they know which or course leads to great tragedy, not to mention great melodrama!

Dale