the pope may have been a naughty boy.

[billy]

the ignominy of it all.

what do you think will happen if it's shown the pope mistreated kids as well

source

[DUBLIN5]

i have to say true true anyone else would got done but on no the priests would not,even the politicians get done,everyone in the priesthood in ireland knows what where and when not even a high court knows what they know

[billy]

would things change if they allowed priests to marry and have sex?

personally i feel that if a person is good it makes no diff if he's religious or not but when they're bad and religious it's like a double kick in the balls. not saying the pope is bad even if he was a brown shirt. and because he brother slapped kids shouldn't have a bearing on the pope.

i really do think they need to sort out the celibacy rule though.
maybe the question should have been ;
should priests be able to marry?

[billy]

surely the church must know this?

i also think it would help in allowing priests to experience first hand, family matters which they often have to help with.

[srijantje]

but then again,if you become a priest,you know the rules,no sex
you can always get another job

[srijantje]

yes,there's a scandal in holland too,nothing new though,we had them in the past

[billy]

the news is on here as i type and the germany one was on. he said they offered him 25000 euro as long as long as he kept quiet and didn't pursue it. now they give him the cash with that clause removed.
thing is it is pretty common.

what kind of person acytually joins an order where no sex is ever allowed?

[addy]

would things change if they allowed priests to marry and have sex?

personally i feel that if a person is good it makes no diff if he's religious or not but when they're bad and religious it's like a double kick in the balls. not saying the pope is bad even if he was a brown shirt. and because he brother slapped kids shouldn't have a bearing on the pope.

i really do think they need to sort out the celibacy rule though.
maybe the question should have been ;
should priests be able to marry?

Maybe they should consider it. But the church's biggest problem isn't that their sexually frustrated. The problem is that they're corrupt.

Lets get real. What infuriated people about the child abuse scandal wasn't the sex part, it was the sheer evilness of it, and the fact that the church chose to cover their behinds instead of protecting the kids. That they chose to keep repeat offenders in the church and continually gave them access to kids instead of dropping them outright and letting those bastards face the law. Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt.

[billy]

would things change if they allowed priests to marry and have sex?

personally i feel that if a person is good it makes no diff if he's religious or not but when they're bad and religious it's like a double kick in the balls. not saying the pope is bad even if he was a brown shirt. and because he brother slapped kids shouldn't have a bearing on the pope.

i really do think they need to sort out the celibacy rule though.
maybe the question should have been ;
should priests be able to marry?

Maybe they should consider it. But the church's biggest problem isn't that their sexually frustrated. The problem is that they're corrupt.

Lets get real. What infuriated people about the child abuse scandal wasn't the sex part, it was the sheer evilness of it, and the fact that the church chose to cover their behinds instead of protecting the kids. That they chose to keep repeat offenders in the church and continually gave them access to kids instead of dropping them outright and letting those bastards face the law. Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt.

extremely good point. i agree the church or any organisation should disown and even help the police prosecute them. not doing so is as you say evil.

that said i still thing there would be less crimes against kids if sex and marriage were allowed.

[billy]

I knew a girl many years ago, who grew up in a Catholic orphanage. At the age of 13 she started menstruating, and she got very scared, and asked the nuns about it. They beat her for having asked.

for a while i was brought up in a catholic orphanage when i was about 7.
i couldn't eat cabbage because it made me vomit. after telling them so they made me eat it. told me the meal would be put out every day till i ate it. so i ate it and puked all over the plate. they then said unless i ate everything on the plate it would be put out every meal time. ...i never ate it even after three days. when my brother came to visit me. they told him id been bad. and wouldn't eat my food. he saw the plate at the table and went apeshit (he was about 20 at the time) almost strangled one of the nuns. anyway, the police was called and hauled him off with the nuns screaming to press charges, next day it seemed everything had changed. they said it was just a misunderstanding.

i found out many years later off the only good nun i ever knew that the priest had told them to drop the charges because they could be charged with child cruelty and that would bring the church into the public eye.

[billy]

Read this:

Sexual abuse by Catholic clergy
The Canadian situation

In the article I found this statement:

The Roman Catholic Church is not legally responsible for the abuse in the church's residential schools, because the church does not exist as a legal entity. Some of the schools were run by individual dioceses. Most were operated by the Oblates and similar church orders. The orders and dioceses are separately incorporated, and would be responsible for any liabilities at their schools.

it's just fucking scandalous to say the least. thankfully i never went to one of their schools. i know of schools run by friars where they would cane you on the soles of your feet for doing wrong. it was a bit like midnight express. i only had it done once and it wasn't good.

[billy]

And since the Catholic church does not actually exist as a legal entity,
the folks in the Vatican are not responsible for any of it.

then laws should be passed to outlaw any dealings as such outside of rome and all it's funds should be seized.

[addy]

By the same rule the church shouldn't be allowed to protect them or stand in the way of any investigation.

Those are some very frightening stories right there. Again it reinforces to me that the problem is that they have an ingrained culture of corruption and cruelty (behind closed doors, of course).

Wouldn't it have been better if they just hired prostitutes or something, rather than diddle and traumatize children. Geez

[srijantje]

i wouldn't want to be the prostitute hired by one of those guys,what a bunch of weirdos

[billy]

By the same rule the church shouldn't be allowed to protect them or stand in the way of any investigation.

Those are some very frightening stories right there. Again it reinforces to me that the problem is that they have an ingrained culture of corruption and cruelty (behind closed doors, of course).

Wouldn't it have been better if they just hired prostitutes or something, rather than diddle and traumatize children. Geez

at a push i'd say many already hire brass. and many are banging their parishioners. at least if they're married it's like they have someone to keep an eye on them. not totally safe of course but i think a few of those sick bastards would be discouraged.

that said, i do know an odd couple of good priests. but i think they're the exception rather than the rule.

[billy]

all that wasted money that could have gone to good causes.
wouldn't it be better all round if the rc church and the vatican simply said this;

any priest or member of the church who commits any crime do so in their own name and not that of the church. as such, all information collected by the church will be given to the proper authorities so they may prosecute any said person to the full extent of the law.

the church is not and will not be held responsible for the individual.
if it comes to light that a member of our workforce is guilty of any sexual crime they will be instantly dismissed and excommunicated. anyone under investigation will be suspended on full pay. at all time we will make public any valid accusation that is corroborated by any ensuing independent investigation by any government authority.

we will do everything in power to aid the law in any investigation.

or something like it. and if they stuck to it.

[billy]

i agree and as such the boss of the priest should be done for conspiring to pervert the course of justice. while they can't take the rc church to court i'm sure they can charge an individual under their own name.

[mrmod]

I think the Church has lost alot of it's power over people. Who knows if this always happened? Maybe it started when the church realised that they were practically untouchable.

Either way, it's reputation is now shattered

[billy]

The Catholic church has been running its image into the ground for years. They lost North Western Europe 500 years ago.

There are now so few new candidates for priests, that they have to take what they can get. The church's opposition to birth control lost them most of the well educated women throughout the world. In South America, which was traditionally an almost 100% Catholic continent, around 25% of the church goers in many of the countries are now protestant evangelicals.

good point Vf; most of the evangelicals left the rc church because it was way to strict regarding marriage and family life. imagine how many of those would have stayed had marriage been allowed. stupid thing is it was the church itself who made up the no marriage rule for priests. as well as the no woman priest rule.

[billy]

what pisses me off is this;

why do we actually need priests?
why can't we just pray to a god of our choosing in the safty of our own home.
why do we have to clump together to do it. why do we actually need a priest or even a pope for that matter.
i can't see a single arguement that warrants it. for me the whole hierarchy of every religion should be disbanded and exhumed with extreme predjudice.