LannisterHater
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I think of all that has happened in these years. Older people tell me that i am still young, yet how could so much have happened this fast. I give no discount to the wisdom of my elders. They have seen more than I have. I listen to their stories and learn from the opinions that have become their truths. The biggest difference is the difference of my own truth. The truth that has dug its burrow into my mind and made a home where dreams should still grow and wait to be born.
The truth is a hard thing for most people to act upon. Its easier to live another person's dreams and hide your own. To keep a dream a dream. Mainly because truth is more than just words, or the answer to a question that someone asks you. The truth is in the life that we live. No fairy tales or epic adventures. The truth is not epic. Its an adventure with no heroes or villians. The truth is not a struggle. Hiding it can be.
The journey that leads us there can be lonely at times, but to find the truth I guess its the best way. Face it alone and find out your character is what I believe. Humans can be forceful to a fault. We are very sociable creatures you know. Forcing the truth does about as good as an ant playing poker with an aardvark. No, the truth will suffocate in a house fire rather than run into the fresh air. It's best to find it alone because it is lonely too.
Being alone does not mean having no one around. It just means thinking about yourself for a little while, while no one else is looking of course.
The truth is both sly and cunning. It can hide right in front of your face. Even if it screamed and socked you a good one, it still might go unnoticed. Long ago we decided that it was more important to protect people's feelings (and sometimes our own asses) than to be truthful. I guess the truth didn't take it so well.
Yours and mine are the same but different in their details. Like snowflakes.
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LannisterHater Wrote:the truth will suffocate in a house fire rather than run into the fresh air
What a great piece and this particular line stood out to me. You've done a great job here, LH. Can't wait to see more. Feel free to look around and give the other poets feedback on their work and also introduce yourself in this thread: Say 'Hi' In This Thread
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Quote:The truth is in the life that we live. No fairy tales or epic adventures. The truth is not epic. Its an adventure with no heroes or villians. The truth is not a struggle.
i like the title and what you wrote. it's so far from my own truth as to be worth the read. the last line felt too ambiguous but i enjoyed the rest.
thanks for your truth.
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As this is not a poem, I am going to do something I don't usually do, which is write what thoughts I had in response to what you had to say. I usually don't do this because I don't think in general it will benefit the writer in anyway, but as this is in that vague category of poetic prose, there is little to technically critique, so I offer me thoughts about what you said. Not as a way to judge right or wrong, good or bad in the content, or even my agreement or disagreement, but simply as a sound board for how it struck me. As to the value of that, I cannot say.
Dale
It is often hard not to discount "older peoples wisdom", because I think we often sense it is colored by their own disappointments. It's like (although I actually never have) having played the lottery for twenty years, and never having won, nor ever having know someone who won, you tell the person, "you're just throwing your money away, better to invest it in mutual funds". Even though most likely true, what it overlooks is what risk a person is willing to take to maintain the hope of winning, and how much that is worth to them. This is true of any high risk venture like wanting to be a movie star. Just because it is true that a person chances are very small to succeed in such a thing, doesn't mean they are ignoring that "truth" by pursuing it anyway, it may mean that they are willing to take the risk. I think one must acknowledge the truth, but at the same time, there is no reason one has to take the path that most people think is obviously the only way to go in the light of that truth. What they fail to see is that not everyone wants to play the percentages. The real truth is that, yes you have lower odds to succeed, but you might have higher odds to be happy: in their wisdom, they forgot to factor happiness into their equation of "the truth".
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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If the writer calls it a poem, it's a poem.
As far as wisdom goes:
"The perception that wisdom increases with age is a by-product
of the high correlation between cynicism and reality."
- Frances Wilman
This particular poem is redundant and needs editing.
As a challenge, see if you can edit it down to about 25 words.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
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My son, there are people in the world who have nothing to offer,
and so they try to convince everyone that everything is of equal value.
Why do they do that father, what do they hope to gain?
My son, devaluing everything by saying this is no different than that,
and that one is the same as any other, they raise the value of what
they have to offer.
What should we do father?
My son, a wise man will continue to recognize that an ounces of bird
droppings is not the same as an ounce of gold, no matter how
loud someone may shout that they are.
But father, what of the ones who believe it is true?
Ah my son. Those are the ones who have no gold!
--from the journal of Tharmas Erthona
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Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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Depends on what the criteria are.
If there's only one and it's weight, then an once is an once.
If it's fertilizer you want, well...
I have other criteria for writing that are much more important to me.
What is and isn't a 'poem' is one of those "how-many-angels-fit-on-head-of-pin"
kinda things. But hey, if somebody else wants to think it's important,
that's fine with me.
I have a poem I wrote about this very thing. I'll post it on its own
thread so as not to dilute this here topic.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
LannisterHater
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My Own Truth is not a poem. It was written during a time when poetry was very promenant in my life. The value in it is that is was a well written piece and always inspired others to look at their own truths. Billy was spot on about the last line (Bravo). It doesn't even belong in the piece. As far as editing goes, I wish that could but I would hate to depreciate the value. A famous writer (who exactly escapes me right now) once said "to write is human, to edit devine." Thanks for the feedback everyone. My only feedback is about the piece witht the father and son. Where is the truth?
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My only feedback is about the piece with the father and son. Sorry LannisterHater, (big George R. R. Martin fan are you?) that was directed at Ray's comment, not your writing.
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Ray,
If you say a word can mean anything, what you do is to make it mean nothing. By necessity a word's definition is limiting: "the condition of being definite, distinct, or clearly outlined."
What the writer of the piece thinks it is, has no bearing on the reality of what it is. The piece is defined by what definition it conforms to. Words carry with them generally accepted definitions. This is necessary for any type of communication. If you are unaware of this, I suggest a study of writing prior to Dr. Johnson and his dictionary for clarification. (Should this not suffice, then possibility a foray into linguistics would help.)
When a label is applied to a thing, the thing must conform to the definition carried by the label. An animal is not what the farmer says it is, it has an objective reality outside of individual opinion. A farmer may call a duck a pig, but that does not change the fact that it is in fact a duck. If he chooses the farmer may go argue with the dictionary about what constitutes a duck, and what constitutes a pig, just as you can argue with the dictionary about what constitutes a poem. However, both should realize that the definition arises out of the general usage of the word over a significant period of time. That is, the definition fits how the word has been applied in writing in the past, up to the present point in time. The definitions was not made up ad hoc. The definition is a reflection of the overall common usage of the word.
Just because we are free to do as we choose, or free to say what we choose, does not mean we have the power to change something just because it suits us. Individuals do not have the power to change the definition of a word simply because they take it into their heads to do so, and it is beyond arrogance to think one can. If you have a problem with the definition of the word "poem" I suggest you take it up with the common usage of the word in writing over the past hundred years, since that is what informs the current definition of the word. The word which I used "poem", and whose usage you took acceptation to, was used in accordance with that current accepted definition.
I am quite well verse in dialectic discourse, as well as linguistics, and I understand there are certain things that are not up for debate, one of which is the accepted definitions of words, defined as how they appear in dictionaries. Unless there is a conflict between dictionaries, definitions should be regarded as facts.
I don't argue facts.
In the future, I would ask you to make sure what you are trying to argue is an arguable point, or at least do it with someone else.
"I have other criteria for writing that are much more important to me.
What is and isn't a 'poem' is one of those..."
See above.
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My apology for wandering off topic.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
LannisterHater
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Yes I am a huge George r martin fan.
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Liked the ant and the aardvark.
You appeared to speak about your 'own truth', without choosing to vouchsafe what it is!
Ray --- This is a course I have been round a few times, and I am with you on the angels and pins. For some perverse reason, I remain tempted to see if I can squeeze something new from it -Angela Cola, perhaps. I think as time has gone by, 'poem' and 'poetry' have become frayed around the edges in terms of definition, just like 'art'. Just why these words should have been picked on, and bullied into submission, I don't understand. But it is a natural process, as some quintessential idea is expressed, or styled, in different ways or forms.
Dale --What side of bed did you get out on? To continue, I sense that having got to a point where all manner of different, yet still identifiable, expressions of the poetic idea were available, a fashion has crept in (probably from France!) whereby anything may be labelled not just poetry, but a poem. Here I agree with you entirely, almost... Mark says he drives a fork-lift: if, one day, still intending to drive the fork-lift, he told his mates that he was going to write a poem, there would be...erm..some puzzlement. It is peculiar that the very people who take such care with words, should be so careless of the words which describe their own art.
Have I successfully squeezed the poetic lemon? It's v aard vark, you know... 
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the fathers truth will always be different from the sons, even if it the same. the two perspectives will make it impossible for them to be the same., and then wham both truths seem to line up as the son becomes the father. i have always kept my own truths and they have always been happy truths. for me to give happiness, i first have to be happy. it's one of the reasons i now live with addy's mum in the philippines it made me happy.
as for the gold and bird shit. a small amount of gold can buy a lot of bird shit, if you haven't got gold or something to such as money and you're a farmer, you probably can't afford enough bird shit to fertilise your fields. while it does fall from the sky, it seldom falls in lots of ten to in one field at one time.
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"Dale --What side of bed did you get out on?"
Ed. I was only replying to Ray's assertion that something which was obviously prose could be called a poem because the writer choose to do so. Obviously definitions will always be morphing into something new. Usually the way it happens is the word gets a new connotation and gradually that connotation becomes the most prevalent usage. The same thing is true of vowel and consonant shifts in the language, such as the d to t, and a t to d in English. Which is why we say "That is good", instead of "Das ist gut".
I always get out on the wrong side of the bed when someone takes exception to something I say that is not only reasonable but factual by rebutting it with an authoritative sounding comment which is in essence non-supported nonsense.
I started my comments with "As this is not a poem" as an explanation of my response.
Ray started his comment with:
"If the writer calls it a poem, it's a poem."
As no one had said anything about the piece being a poem or not, and as Ray's was the first comment after mine, this was obviously directed at what I said. There was nothing controversial about my comment, especially as the piece was obviously prose. I even acknowledge, which I needn't, that certain parts had a poetic overtone, thus I called it "poetic prose".
Where I am from this sort of thing is called "Trying to blow smoke up someone ass." It is generally done to puff up one's ego at the expense of trying to make someone else appear foolish, either by pretending to be an authority and spouting made up gibberish, or by taking something out of context and pretending it is saying something that it is not. Generally I try to put it off to the person misunderstanding, and making an honest mistake or having erroneous information. However, if it occurs repeatedly, as it has in this case, yes, I start getting a bit peeved. However, I have found that this type of moderated response is much better than waiting until I am really pissed. That is when I can get most unpleasant. However if the general consensus is that this sort of thing is perfectly fine, and should not elicit a response my choices will be informed by that in the future.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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shit happens
on topic; the opening poster wants answers and a bit of interaction even steaming interaction can help him find some.
off topic: if anyone isn't happy with something aimed at them they should speak out, if it gets too heavy we'll ask they take it to pm, pig's arse or sewer.
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Yes, shame on all you dialectically deformed off-topic crétins!!!
Take your discussion (civil , mind you, no ad homineming) to the
"Dogs as Poems" thread.
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Normally I couldn't speak for the OP, but since he is my best friend I can assure you that he welcomes off-topic rambling (He just doesn't know about the rules yet). Just for clarification.
Now I'll go back to reading this thread and sniggering.
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(01-15-2012, 01:58 PM)Erthona Wrote: "Dale --What side of bed did you get out on?"
Ed. I was only replying to Ray's assertion that something which was obviously prose could be called a poem because the writer choose to do so. Obviously definitions will always be morphing into something new. Usually the way it happens is the word gets a new connotation and gradually that connotation becomes the most prevalent usage. The same thing is true of vowel and consonant shifts in the language, such as the d to t, and a t to d in English. Which is why we say "That is good", instead of "Das ist gut".
I always get out on the wrong side of the bed when someone takes exception to something I say that is not only reasonable but factual by rebutting it with an authoritative sounding comment which is in essence non-supported nonsense.
I started my comments with "As this is not a poem" as an explanation of my response.
Ray started his comment with:
"If the writer calls it a poem, it's a poem."
As no one had said anything about the piece being a poem or not, and as Ray's was the first comment after mine, this was obviously directed at what I said. There was nothing controversial about my comment, especially as the piece was obviously prose. I even acknowledge, which I needn't, that certain parts had a poetic overtone, thus I called it "poetic prose".
Where I am from this sort of thing is called "Trying to blow smoke up someone ass." It is generally done to puff up one's ego at the expense of trying to make someone else appear foolish, either by pretending to be an authority and spouting made up gibberish, or by taking something out of context and pretending it is saying something that it is not. Generally I try to put it off to the person misunderstanding, and making an honest mistake or having erroneous information. However, if it occurs repeatedly, as it has in this case, yes, I start getting a bit peeved. However, I have found that this type of moderated response is much better than waiting until I am really pissed. That is when I can get most unpleasant. However if the general consensus is that this sort of thing is perfectly fine, and should not elicit a response my choices will be informed by that in the future.
Dale
Dale,
I had meant to be light-hearted, you know: but I now thinkk you dhould have pulled me up over 'What side..' as I think it should properly be 'Which side...'. And anyway, which si---. I of course apologise effusively if I have written anything, ever, which has in any way given rise to hurt.
The OP must think we are nuts! 
E
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(01-15-2012, 10:30 PM)Mark Wrote: Normally I couldn't speak for the OP, but since he is my best friend I can assure you that he welcomes off-topic rambling (He just doesn't know about the rules yet). Just for clarification.
Now I'll go back to reading this thread and sniggering.
Oh, well, COOL! Man after my own heart.
Now just where IS my four page screed concerning aardvark flavoured
milkshakes; it was around here somewhere...
Nonsensical Ray
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Ed,
You have never said anything that has bothered me. And I was irritated, regardless of how you said it, but that irritation was not directed at you.
Dale
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Now just where IS my four page screed concerning aardvark flavoured
milkshakes; it was around here somewhere...
Yes, I am short on toilet paper myself.
Ray,
You are an aardvark, so stick yourself in a blender and have a taste!
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It's spelled "flavored" btw. Oh yes, I forgot, it's OK to spell words anyway the writer chooses
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Posts: 342
Threads: 49
Joined: Sep 2011
(01-16-2012, 11:31 AM)Erthona Wrote: It's spelled "flavored" btw. Oh yes, I forgot, it's OK to spell words anyway the writer chooses
 (sorry I couldn't resist)
On topic: Yeah, the 'peom' was great :p
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