For K

[abu nuwas]

I know you, Grief; I know your bitter taste too well.

I'm happy now, we parted in a quiet,cheerful, way:

Yet there is no corpse, no wake, no-one whom I can tell.


The cold North Sea still ebbs and flows its blue and grey

So like the grey and blue of warm and loving eyes, back then;

Now we shall never wake and watch its breaking day.


We shall not stand in driving snow, as we did when

The frosty white all gleaming bright, it made us laugh and smile;

When did you stop? That counting 'X's four or ten?


Nor shall we sit again, with open fire, and heap

Of barky logs, and do the simple things, and touch, and talk

In any smoky cottage/ Venice suite – don't weep!



We shall not stand or sit or lie again, or walk;

Your eyes, your ears, your hair, your lips, your face, your you

Are banned. Do you have any plans? Like Paris, or New York?


Three years have passed since we first touched, yes, sad, but true.

Where we once were, soon will there be another 'we'? Who cares?

And will you say those things to him, which once I knew?


Why would I care what silly ill-cut clothes he wears?

Or if he laughs at jokes or turns of phrase which I had made?

Or if he scents our seas and snows, or does our dares?


Of course one day these memories of you will fade.

To-day beneath a chlorine Cross I lay, above a hundred more,

Yet crucified your thoughts still with me stayed.


What's this! Not me, my heart upon my sleeve all raw!

A swim, some snow, ascending wood-fire smoke and Autumn air:

I am not hurt; nor lost; nor grim and grinding poor!


Not Grief, at all; but Pride, my wounded Pride! Not rare!

And yet, and yet, if in the past...if if.. if if.. if if......

Need I have lost your face; and eyes; and hair?


A thing of sea you are, of sea, eroding cliffs

Where painted beach, and blackened fish,huts live beneath the sky.

It was the foolishnes of age, before my limbs turn stiff.


And who gets picked, K, who gets picked to die?

And what about the Saints, K, it could be you or I:

And what about the Saints, K, the ones they crucified?

Are they hand in hand upon the sand, K,

are they lying side by side?

[Leanne]

Edward, this is spectacular. Your opening lines are powerful, the direct address to Grief sets the tone of the poem so that we know the nostalgic wanderings of the next few stanzas are going to end with despair or tragedy. This is echoed in the final stanza, addressing K, demanding answers. The meter, though irregular, works perfectly against the rhymes (which are almost terza rima, only it breaks from L3 to L4 -- it doesn't bother me, I'm just mentioning it because that's what I do )

Of all your phrases, I like "barky logs" the best -- though honestly, that's just picking one slight favourite out of a dozen or more possibilities. Your repetition of certain words and phrases adds depth to the sea motif, giving the words an ebb and flow ("A thing of sea you are, of sea, eroding cliffs"). The one line I would change, purely for order of sounds, is S8 L2, for which I'd suggest:

Today beneath a chlorine Cross I lay, above a hundred more

-- this splits the rhyming words of today/lay and picks up assonance between lay/above

I really enjoyed this, thank you

[abu nuwas]

Edward, this is spectacular. Your opening lines are powerful, the direct address to Grief sets the tone of the poem so that we know the nostalgic wanderings of the next few stanzas are going to end with despair or tragedy. This is echoed in the final stanza, addressing K, demanding answers. The meter, though irregular, works perfectly against the rhymes (which are almost terza rima, only it breaks from L3 to L4 -- it doesn't bother me, I'm just mentioning it because that's what I do )

Of all your phrases, I like "barky logs" the best -- though honestly, that's just picking one slight favourite out of a dozen or more possibilities. Your repetition of certain words and phrases adds depth to the sea motif, giving the words an ebb and flow ("A thing of sea you are, of sea, eroding cliffs"). The one line I would change, purely for order of sounds, is S8 L2, for which I'd suggest:

Today beneath a chlorine Cross I lay, above a hundred more

-- this splits the rhyming words of today/lay and picks up assonance between lay/above

I really enjoyed this, thank you

Thank you, Leanne. I shall make the change you suggest, when I can get my edit thing to work, which it is not right now.

With L3/L4, L3 is wonky in that it is not properly or fully iambic. I take it you meant that I had picked up the middle line of the first verse, instead of the last, to kick off the terz-riming with?

It was metric until the end, although I gave the middle line 7 feet, and the others 6, principally for the mundane reason of getting more information in.

I am glad you used the word 'wanderings', as that was precisely my intent--- I had at one stage thought of going on, and breaking up more and more, but one has to call a halt somewhere..

[Leanne]

No, you terza-rime (!) perfectly for the most part, but L1 & L3 of S4 should really rhyme with "smile" in S3 -- instead you introduce the heap/weep rhyme out of nowhere.

[abu nuwas]

Dang! It was because I originally thought of 'pile/ of barky logs'; but it was a tad forced and a tad wrong. It will have to stand. You are v sharp.

Lesson: Pay attention next time!

[Leanne]

I would let it stand as well... as I said, it all works and you still have all the other linked rhymes... I like "heap" better than "pile" also.

[billy]

I know you, Grief; I know your bitter taste too well. to the point straight way

I'm happy now, we parted in a quiet,cheerful, way: and then an instant softening

Yet there is no corpse, no wake, no-one whom I can tell.


The cold North Sea still ebbs and flows its blue and grey good image

So like the grey and blue of warm and loving eyes, back then;

Now we shall never wake and watch its breaking day.


We shall not stand in driving snow, as we did when these two are poignant lines, the 'we' and 'not' are the biggest words in them.

The frosty white all gleaming bright, it made us laugh and smile;

When did you stop? That counting 'X's four or ten?


Nor shall we sit again, with open fire, and heap

Of barky logs, and do the simple things, and touch, and talk my fave line another great image

In any smoky cottage/ Venice suite – don't weep!



We shall not stand or sit or lie again, or walk;

Your eyes, your ears, your hair, your lips, your face, your you

Are banned. Do you have any plans? Like Paris, or New York?


Three years have passed since we first touched, yes, sad, but true.

Where we once were, soon will there be another 'we'? Who cares?

And will you say those things to him, which once I knew?


Why would I care what silly ill-cut clothes he wears?

Or if he laughs at jokes or turns of phrase which I had made?

Or if he scents our seas and snows, or does our dares?


Of course one day these memories of you will fade.

I lay to-day beneath a chlorine Cross, above a hundred more

Yet crucified your thoughts still with me stayed.


What's this! Not me, my heart upon my sleeve all raw!

A swim, some snow, ascending wood-fire smoke and Autumn air:

I am not hurt; nor lost; nor grim and grinding poor!


Not Grief, at all; but Pride, my wounded Pride! Not rare!

And yet, and yet, if in the past...if if.. if if.. if if......

Need I have lost your face; and eyes; and hair?


A thing of sea you are, of sea, eroding cliffs

Where painted beach, and blackened fish,huts live beneath the sky.

It was the foolishnes of age, before my limbs turn stiff.


And who gets picked, K, who gets picked to die?

And what about the Saints, K, it could be you or I:

And what about the Saints, K, the ones they crucified?

Are they hand in hand upon the sand, K,

are they lying side by side?

it seemed all i was saying was great image in the line by line so i stopped.
the meter felt to falter in an odd place but i saw leanne mentioned it better than i could so i won't

while i saw a change in the rhyme scheme i didn't notice it in the read, in fact i loved how it flowed. at first i thought it about death and i suppose it was really, though not the corporeal sort.

the whihet space doesn't do much for me, if anything i think it stops the poem from being as griefy (is that a word) as it should be.

i thought it a great poem with some (lots) of great images. thank you for the read.

[abu nuwas]

Thank you Billy. I don't really know what all this talk of 'white space' is about --- there is a fucking lot of it on the right hand of the page, but that's not it, is it? Between the lines? Between the stanzas? I never think about it, except where one line is to be truncated. I shall put up something more jolly next time....

[billy]

between the lines (i should have said) and jolly or sad, who gives a fu toss as long as you put it up
it gives me to long a pause. (could just be me of course)

[abu nuwas]

between the lines (i should have said) and jolly or sad, who gives a fu toss as long as you put it up
it gives me to long a pause. (could just be me of course)

Thank you, Billy. For all my doubts about workshopping, I continually find there is stuff which I had not been conscious of, or which really is instructive. I should rather listen to Leanne and Todd, especially, than any number of Creative Writing lecturers.

PS Where do we stand with this f---- business? Is it all open for kids, so mind your tongue?

[billy]

in theory members under 15 can't post poetry, (all site are can be and are viewed by kids. if one is okay and doesn't turn cry baby i suppose we would make an exception should we find out. expletives though are part of the language and may be used, if a poem has lots of filth and is a tad vile, the poet should put a "(content warning)" in the subject heading.
i agree that Leanne and Todd are a breed apart, i also think, good constructive feedback can come from the unlikeliest of poets as well.

it's obvious you're set in your ways, you admit it , but you're still worthy of feedback because you give feedback, you take part in the forum. normally i wouldn't even try to give feedback after a while, to those who don't use it. but for me, as ye give, so shall ye receive hehe.

if you wish to swear, do so

[abu nuwas]

What! Set in my ways! That stung!

Thanks, and just one more off-topic thing: I did not intend, by singling out Leanne and Todd, to slight anyone else -- it is certainly true that insights come from everywhere.

[only rob]

Lovely...