Brother Death

[John Holland]

The old poet sat in the shade of a tree.
He pondered the riddle of blossom and bee.

He squinted his mind the better to see
as he searched for the truth. The magical key.

A long, long time he sat and thought
of women wooed and battles fought.

Of plastic trees and fruit of wax
of china eggs and income tax.

Of lizards drinking from his hand.
Nights spent buried in the sand.

He thought, “This is a funny place
to build a world. In outer space!”

“Or maybe this is inner space?
I’ll have to ask old what’s-his-face!”

For many years he would sit and think.
He forgot to eat and sleep and drink.

One day they found him sitting still
under that tree that grew on a hill.

He wore a smile but breathed no breath;
he’d gone away with brother death.

[Ca ne fait rien]

I am not usually a fan of rhyming couplets, especially when they are twisted to get the end rhyme, but you have a very distinctive voice, John, and you make this work with the unique twist of wryness that you always add to your poems.
That said, it is such a catchy piece, and a cautionary tale to boot, that I can imagine reciting it to my G-Ks.
Next level, I can also read it as a serious , or at least sobering piece, a metaphor for that 'silence after the viaticum'.
Clever poet.

[grannyjill]

I really enjoyed reading this. It's sort of Spike Milligan/Dr.Seuss/John Lennon/Lewis Carroll-ish....

[billy]

loved it, wondering if iambic pentameter or octameter would improve it.

loved the last couplet the most, it's meter was spot on iambic.
the poem didn't feel said, it felt more of a celebration of his life. (jmo)
thanks for the read

[Patrick Traveler]

I liked this, although I don't normally like rhyming couplets. But L15 stopped me cold. I felt an extra syl there at "would" and wanted to read it "For many years he'd sit and think" then dropped the "He" in L16 to make 8 syls in each line. But I am a little nuts on syllable counts. L18 stopped me too, but I couldn't think of what to do with it. Maybe "under that tree up on the hill."

You did a lot better with this form than I could have done and overall I thought it a wonderful poem.

[John Holland]

I seldom worry about syllable counts. I write my way and I find that being overly concerned with syllable counts etc, hinders my work. I assure you all that I can count... well almost anyway.

[billy]

thats okay that you feel that way but as the reader in a workshop we say what doesn't work too well for us and what does work well.
i could say, "i don't give a fuck about spelling, i write my way and find if i worry about, it hinders my work " but somehow i wouldn't it would be fair that i'm posting in a workshop.

I seldom worry about syllable counts. I write my way and I find that being overly concerned with syllable counts etc, hinders my work. I assure you all that I can count.

is like saying, fuck you, you can't teach/tell/show me anything. i'm a poetry god. please don't take offence, i'm just replying to you're comment.

[heslopian]

As "brother death" is only introduced in the last line and doesn't have much bearing on what precedes him I don't think his name should be the title of this piece. The poet seems more important than him. Why not call it something like "The Enraptured Scribe"? Just my opinion of course.
The rhyme scheme, which is at once almost spiritually pleasing - the first couplet sent a shiver down my spine - and sometimes jarring through the enjambment you use, reminds me of the great English poet Stevie Smith, who also pondered similar themes. Thanks for the read, John Holland

[John Holland]

Hi Billy, I take your point. But it was me being defensive about my style, or lack of it, rather than me saying I am a poetry God. Of course I am here to learn.

I take it your last line was sarcastic? Or is that your style?

"p(P)lease don't take offence, i(I)'m just replying to you're (your) comment."

It doesn't matter really. I get what you say.

thats okay that you feel that way but as the reader in a workshop we say what doesn't work too well for us and what does work well.
i could say, "i don't give a fuck about spelling, i write my way and find if i worry about, it hinders my work " but somehow i wouldn't it would be fair that i'm posting in a workshop.

I seldom worry about syllable counts. I write my way and I find that being overly concerned with syllable counts etc, hinders my work. I assure you all that I can count.

is like saying, fuck you, you can't teach/tell/show me anything. i'm a poetry god. please don't take offence, i'm just replying to you're comment.

[billy]

then my work here is done
we're all in the same boat, on one of my poems, the bastards told me i didn't need two lines of an 8 line poem. they were right of course, but i did want to defend the poem, that said, i removed the lines, and hopefully by doing so it will help me in the next one i write.
i always or mostly use small case letters in replies. in my poems i try to use what grammar i need

[John Holland]

Thank you for your original comment. When you removed those two lines I hope you didn't "gut" the poem. The poet is always more intimate (no pun intended) with the poem than the critic is.

I'm going to get murdered here... I often use no punctuation at all in my poems. I like instead to use line breaks and white spaces. They achieve the same objective as punctuation does in my humble opinion.

then my work here is done
we're all in the same boat, on one of my poems, the bastards told me i didn't need two lines of an 8 line poem. they were right of course, but i did want to defend the poem, that said, i removed the lines, and hopefully by doing so it will help me in the next one i write.
i always or mostly use small case letters in replies. in my poems i try to use what grammar i need

[Leanne]

This is a bit of a departure in style for you, John, and I really like the result. I'm good with some of the departures from rigid meter, particularly when you skip a syllable after a full stop as that effectively makes us pause and let the line sink in -- however there are still a couple of bumps that don't really serve any purpose and could be smoothed over, if you're up for it.

The old poet sat in the shade of a tree.
He pondered the riddle of blossom and bee. -- beautiful setup, just a few words give us all the scene we need

He squinted his mind the better to see -- a comma after mind would help here
as he searched for the truth. The magical key.

A long, long time he sat and thought -- I would put another "he" in front of "thought" to match the quicker triple feet of the first part of the line
of women wooed and battles fought. -- despite the disparity in syllable counts, this line has the same number of feet as the rest and the long, round sounds of "wooed" and "fought" even it out nicely

Of plastic trees and fruit of wax
of china eggs and income tax. -- I love these lines, all the artifice coming in between women and lizards, a great juxtaposition

Of lizards drinking from his hand. -- I wouldn't mind seeing this line end in a comma, or "and", to better link this couplet
Nights spent buried in the sand.

He thought, “This is a funny place
to build a world. In outer space!”

“Or maybe this is inner space?
I’ll have to ask old what’s-his-face!” -- These two couplets break the mood and wake the reader up a bit from the dream-state of the first part of the poem

For many years he would sit and think. -- you could try "he'd" instead
He forgot to eat and sleep and drink.

One day they found him sitting still
under that tree that grew on a hill.

He wore a smile but breathed no breath;
he’d gone away with brother death. -- I like the end but I do think "gone" is a bit of a wasted word, what about something like "wandered"?

Oh, and on the white space thing... you'd be surprised at the variety of styles people use, nothing's for everyone... we've had plenty of arguments about things like that, but it's through arguments that we tend to learn the most

[billy]

Thank you for your original comment. When you removed those two lines I hope you didn't "gut" the poem. The poet is always more intimate (no pun intended) with the poem than the critic is.

I'm going to get murdered here... I often use no punctuation at all in my poems. I like instead to use line breaks and white spaces. They achieve the same objective as punctuation does in my humble opinion.

then my work here is done
we're all in the same boat, on one of my poems, the bastards told me i didn't need two lines of an 8 line poem. they were right of course, but i did want to defend the poem, that said, i removed the lines, and hopefully by doing so it will help me in the next one i write.
i always or mostly use small case letters in replies. in my poems i try to use what grammar i need

which is exactly what i mean. I often use no punctuation at all in my poems. I like instead to use line breaks and white spaces.

i said in my poems i try to use what grammar i need which is what you say you do. i sometimes write a poem without any grammar. and white space if used properly can make a poem better.

as for my poem. i took the lines out because i saw they were correct and i felt it would be silly to not do something i felt was correct
the truth is i'm grateful they took the time to workshop my poem.

sadly (and i know i should spend more time on it) i only have a short amount of time to write, because of working on the forum, and i spend a fair amount of my free time replying to the other guys. ( i enjoy it, it isn't a chore hehe) so they help me a lot to see what i've missed.

[Leanne]

Please try to keep discussions in this forum on the poem in question. Thanks/ admin

[billy]

sorry, i got carried away, (no offence was meant to anyone living or dead) feel free to delete any of my post if it's warranted

[Leanne]

Don't be silly, it's all very valid but it's a tangent that might be better discussed in another forum... now, back to our regular programming.

[John Holland]

Yep. It certainly is a departure from my usual scratches on the screen.

I will certainly consider your suggestions. I have great respect for your knowledge and your opinions.

Confession: I need to be more open to revision than I am. I seldom revise. Not because I think the poem is perfect, or even "good", but because if I look back too much I become very depressed at how ordinary the poem actually is.

This is a bit of a departure in style for you, John, and I really like the result. I'm good with some of the departures from rigid meter, particularly when you skip a syllable after a full stop as that effectively makes us pause and let the line sink in -- however there are still a couple of bumps that don't really serve any purpose and could be smoothed over, if you're up for it.

The old poet sat in the shade of a tree.
He pondered the riddle of blossom and bee. -- beautiful setup, just a few words give us all the scene we need

He squinted his mind the better to see -- a comma after mind would help here
as he searched for the truth. The magical key.

A long, long time he sat and thought -- I would put another "he" in front of "thought" to match the quicker triple feet of the first part of the line
of women wooed and battles fought. -- despite the disparity in syllable counts, this line has the same number of feet as the rest and the long, round sounds of "wooed" and "fought" even it out nicely

Of plastic trees and fruit of wax
of china eggs and income tax. -- I love these lines, all the artifice coming in between women and lizards, a great juxtaposition

Of lizards drinking from his hand. -- I wouldn't mind seeing this line end in a comma, or "and", to better link this couplet
Nights spent buried in the sand.

He thought, “This is a funny place
to build a world. In outer space!”

“Or maybe this is inner space?
I’ll have to ask old what’s-his-face!” -- These two couplets break the mood and wake the reader up a bit from the dream-state of the first part of the poem

For many years he would sit and think. -- you could try "he'd" instead
He forgot to eat and sleep and drink.

One day they found him sitting still
under that tree that grew on a hill.

He wore a smile but breathed no breath;
he’d gone away with brother death. -- I like the end but I do think "gone" is a bit of a wasted word, what about something like "wandered"?

Oh, and on the white space thing... you'd be surprised at the variety of styles people use, nothing's for everyone... we've had plenty of arguments about things like that, but it's through arguments that we tend to learn the most

[marc]

Rhyming pieces usually don't do much for me . . . but this one had an lilting beat inside its lines, thus I enjoyed reading it.

Marc

[abu nuwas]

John -I still think of you as Ara,

I think much of the advice tendered is sound, and, if you collate it, you will find that it centres on similar areas, for the most part. I am always with Leanne; but Patrick's point was good, and minor. I do not think that a little tweak here and there should be overlooked, rather on the principle of 'Why spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar?' As an example: Heslopian suggested a title-change, which at first I discarded. But on thinking-- he is bang on the button, in this way. Were it not for the title, for what the reader knows, the old poet might end up getting off with a dancer from the Folies Bergeres, and have 6 kids with her, and playing Santa at Christmas! You know that's not the story you mean to tell, but the reader has no idea. Thus, if you change the title, away from death, then the final punch when Brother Death does appear, is quadrupled.

I should not trouble to comment on a poem, unless I thought it good enough to be worth improving--- and btw, I am one of the 'non-changers' very often. I would have it be much more 'clickety-click' as people rudely say, and I would have no difficulty in making it that way. I liked it, in case you have not picked it up, a whole lot: and my favorite lines were among those Leanne picked out: 'Of plastic trees and fruit of wax/Of china eggs and income-tax'. Reminded me of the once fashionable John Betjeman, whom I like.

[Wildcard]

Hi John,
   Time is sometimes hard to come by so it's taken me a while to get around to posting, but I have read this one a few times already and I like it. I'll be honest, the rhythm that's happening feels interrupted to me at time. I count four stresses per line, but the syllables between seem erratic. The first couplet, to me is in perfect rythym, but some of the shorter lines felt awkward to my newbie toungue.

 of women wooed and battles fought.
(of WOMen WOOED and BATtles FOUGHT.)?

   I am reading this as iambic tetrameter . . . It makes me think that I am missing something here. Are you counting stresses only and varying the unstressed counts?