AI individuals may not be that far off so...

[rayheinrich]

I'm not really interested in talking about if it's possible or not.
I want to explore the hypothetical possibility and discuss the ramifications if that
does come about.

For instance: What sort of a rights should AI individuals be granted? And maybe
that could get us looking into the status of existing primates and other intelligent
animals like whales and octopi.

Another reason it's important is that they could conceivably end up having more power
than we do* and they'll be the ones deciding what rights we should have. With that
eventuality possible, I'd say we should probably be pretty magnanimous about their
rights as that might set a good precedent for what rights we continue to have.



*Though, since this is real life, it's probably not gonna be a We-They kind of thing.
There will be lots of AI's and humans having lots of every-which-way opinions.
Some AI's and humans siding with some others and others siding with others,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. As long as somebody doesn't end up blowing up the
world (Looking at you Russia and you U.S. and you China...and Pakistan and India
and Britain and France and Israel and North Korea etc.), it's going to be a glorious
and amusing mess and I'm quite looking forward to it.

[CRNDLSM]

Get in trouble with the law for unplugging your computer without the proper shut down procedure as aislaughter

[RiverNotch]

Some folks I follow through Youtube, mainly Adam Conover and Dan Olson, are....skeptical about this whole A.I. thing, to say the least, drawing some clear comparisons between the hype for A.I. now and the hype for the Internet during the dot com bubble (not to mention the very recently burst bubble over blockchain). What technical knowledge I have on the subject is actually meta-knowledge, mainly from the aforementioned names but also from some conversations with various Computer Engineering friends, who all seem to generally concur that A.I. personhood is a very remote possibility, at the moment. And since it was just as remote a possibility during the time of Isaac Asimov, maybe just consider his work? I think the real use for this sort of speculation, at the moment, is in consideration of what rights we humans should possess, as well as whether entities as "simple" as fetuses or "lesser" species of animal to those as complex as corporations or microstates should [continue to] possess certain rights, but yeah, that's still no speculation, on my part. I dunno -- I guess I can't be bothered to really think about this, only to note what I've here noted.

[rayheinrich]

Some folks I follow through Youtube, mainly Adam Conover and Dan Olson, are....skeptical about this whole A.I. thing, to say the least, drawing some clear comparisons between the hype for A.I. now and the hype for the Internet during the dot com bubble (not to mention the very recently burst bubble over blockchain). What technical knowledge I have on the subject is actually meta-knowledge, mainly from the aforementioned names but also from some conversations with various Computer Engineering friends, who all seem to generally concur that A.I. personhood is a very remote possibility, at the moment. And since it was just as remote a possibility during the time of Isaac Asimov, maybe just consider his work? I think the real use for this sort of speculation, at the moment, is in consideration of what rights we humans should possess, as well as whether entities as "simple" as fetuses or "lesser" species of animal to those as complex as corporations or microstates should [continue to] possess certain rights, but yeah, that's still no speculation, on my part. I dunno -- I guess I can't be bothered to really think about this, only to note what I've here noted.

As you said, even if we're not willing to entertain the possibility of AI that experience
themselves as living beings, it is a good reminder to go over our treatment of smart
species that already exist with us on this planet. Especially, I think, how arrogantly
we've acted in the past now that there's a possibility that we will need to be more
humble in the future. Not that it will be much different for most of us, since we've
lived our whole lives with lots of people being smarter than us, it will only be the
top few percent of our population who will need to be humble about their intelligence.

Adam Conover is funny, but hardly somebody that is knowledgeable when it comes
to AI (and he's prone to repeating cliched cultural myths).
Dan Olson, on the other hand, is someone I have a lot of respect for.
Isaac Asimov was one of my favorite SF authors and definitely saw into the future.
If he'd had the chance to learn about the current Large Language Models, I sure he'd
have a different opinion.

But yeah, we'll just have to see how this thing plays out. But one thing's for sure:
Whether there's sentient AI are not, AI at the current level, as evidenced by several
commercially successful corporate products, is going to put millions of people out of
work and cause lots of cultural havoc.

The .com bubble only affected badly financed companies, the ones that were properly
financed weren't really affected by it and went on to create the immensely successful
internet. Blockchain technology was always a con job. Crypto is indeed a viable system
if the current problem of speculation can be overcome as a viable currency needs stability
and crypto does not have that at the moment. AI is currently a cultural bubble, but financially
there are very large corporations such as Microsoft (and Amazon and Google, among others,
by different routes) that are already producing very profitable business software, so financially
there's no bubble at all.

P.S. I included some copied comments about .com, blockchain, crypto, and AI below
should you wish to read them:

Blockchain technology: And its predecessors in the form of secure military communications,
were already well known among systems experts as having a severe shortcoming because their
response times went up logarithmically with the number of active nodes. The blockchain was
hype generated to trick people. Just international inter-bank transactions alone occur today at
a rate of more than 10 million per second, and Mastercard and Visa are much higher than that.
The fastest blockchain technology, at the moment, running on far fewer nodes can barely
manage 10 per second. It was never a viable commercial technology.

Crypto currency: Is viable if a way can be found to manage the speculation. One of the main
characteristics for a viable currency is stability, something which major cryptocurrencies do
not have at the moment.

Dot.com Bubble: Was indeed a bubble and many companies went bankrupt. But it was a temporary
bubble that didn't affect most well-funded companies. Those companies went on, as you know,
to create the immensely successful internet we have today.

[CRNDLSM]

Rowens mentioned covers on youtube mattering if you get paid. People who's income and lives they've built for themselves wrapped in an artform that is suddenly free for all. As a hobbyist I can't stop creating, its never been popular or sustaining, and artificial intelligence is just objects in the fire of further creation, but maybe if that's how I paid my bills I'd be panicking. As a dog groomer I'm not worried about technology there either. Feeling lucky

[rowens]

I also mentioned people giving your stuff away. They don't want some nobody posting their music for free.

I would want my stuff posted wherever, for exposure.

I bet people went to ECW matches in the '90s, and liked a song a wrestler came out to, and went and bought that CD.

That was the '90s.

A cover is different. Think of all the cover bands around the world every Friday and Saturday night. Is the record company censoring all that?

Well, maybe it's different if you post it online.

You know what I always say? Fuck em. That's what I always say.

[CRNDLSM]

I also can't help but think about chess with artificial intelligence. When was the last time a person beat a computer? Are there competitions where computers play against computers? That's absurdist. Yet people still play chess, for fun , with friends, and with computers. The plagiarism is the most difficult because we can hardly tell if something is blatantly ripped without the use of computers. If you and I are having a conversation and it isn't published is it free game? Just live through it I guess

[rowens]

I had a wrestling game for the Nintendo 64 in the late '90s where you could make the CPU wrestle the CPU.

What conversation?

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[rayheinrich]

Rowens mentioned covers on youtube mattering if you get paid. People who's income and lives they've built for themselves wrapped in an artform that is suddenly free for all. As a hobbyist I can't stop creating, its never been popular or sustaining, and artificial intelligence is just objects in the fire of further creation, but maybe if that's how I paid my bills I'd be panicking. As a dog groomer I'm not worried about technology there either. Feeling lucky

I think it's pretty funny that software engineers and lawyers are going to be some of the first
people greatly affected by the implementation of commercial applications of Large Language
Model AI's. There was some inexplicable magic that happened when they took very large neural
networks and simply, it seemed, had them get very good at predicting the next word. There was
something in the complex neural networks with zillions of weights that seemed to produce rational
thinking when it couldn't possibly have done so. It is yet to be explained and it's almost impossible
to analyze at the moment because the networks are so immense. There's some inherent memory
in the current models, but not that much of it. They're introducing significantly more memory,
and when they do that effectively, there's probably going to be further magic. Probably... There
may be some limit to what can be done using this model, but that limit seems to be very far away
at the moment and may not exist until well past the level of self-awareness. But who knows. It is,
for the moment, unexplainable magic; we have no idea what we're doing. But since it's profitable
for large corporations and nation states like the United States and China think it's essential to
maintaining their power, there is no stopping it. So, for better or worse, we're going to see.

Robots, especially their manual dexterity, are not very advanced and it's going to take a considerable
while to get to the level of humans. So, haha, it was the brains that got automated first. Not what
anyone expected. This means dog groomers, electronic technicians who repair tiny little things
(my long-time occupation), plumbers, and any occupation requiring lots of manual dexterity are
going to have a bit of job security for the foreseeable future. Haha, lawyers, maybe there is karma.

Hmmm, I think I'll copy this and post it as a thread.

[CRNDLSM]

The one at that party when everyone had something to say about it. I can publish that? As my own original characters? Because people have conversations about all things?

[CRNDLSM]

Google discovered some 2 million materials unknown to man? those tested in a laboratory so far are all stable, .and soon they may release all that info to the public?