#dadlife

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces,

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporating resin. 

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,
facsimile of presence.

[rowens]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces,


This split here makes the poem. 
Looking at sentence structure, and how it snakes around, how the brain coils with it. I can feel my brain. That feeling is the Pleasure. The Joy is when the ideas are placed in the right place. The mention of particulars of scene add to the spatial quality that's felt. 



particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin. 

Skating starts with an s for a reason.
The brightness and quickness of the scene compared with and the motion to the shadow and facsimile of the observer is obvious and clear.
The language sends me to iceskating, but it doesn't say for sure. 


Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,
facsimile of presence.

[TranquillityBase]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces,

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.  "quintescent" (?) yeah, it's not a word, but I just made it one 
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin. 

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,           "to" (?) 
facsimile of presence.

OMG,

Not crazy about that title but .......

quite beautiful.  I'm kind of serious about "quintescent", it should exist.

TqB

P.S.  "quintessential" is a word; how about that?

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces,

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.  "quintescent" (?) yeah, it's not a word, but I just made it one 
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin. 

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,           "to" (?) 
facsimile of presence.

OMG,

Not crazy about that title but .......

quite beautiful.  I'm kind of serious about "quintescent", it should exist.

TqB

P.S.  "quintessential" is a word; how about that?

Thanks for stopping by, TqB. If you tell me what you didn't like about quintessence, then I can consider your options or others as solutions. I can't fix a problem when I don't know what it is. If you don't care to elaborate, that's fine -- I'm aware that you don't owe me anything.

[TranquillityBase]

Thanks for stopping by, TqB. If you tell me what you didn't like about quintessence, then I can consider your options or others as solutions. I can't fix a problem when I don't know what it is. If you don't care to elaborate, that's fine -- I'm aware that you don't owe me anything.

Probably just me, but I expected another adjective after "vital" instead of a noun.  I guess it's not grammatically a problem, when I parse it in my head, but sounded awkward.

TqB

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Thanks for stopping by, TqB. If you tell me what you didn't like about quintessence, then I can consider your options or others as solutions. I can't fix a problem when I don't know what it is. If you don't care to elaborate, that's fine -- I'm aware that you don't owe me anything.

Probably just me, but I expected another adjective after "vital" instead of a noun.  I guess it's not grammatically a problem, when I parse it in my head, but sounded awkward.

TqB

Thank you 

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Thank you to rowens and Tranquility for commenting. I've developed a theory that the problem was the word "vital," because it's surrounded by nouns and was setting up quintessence to feel out of place. I've decided to test this theory. After much deliberation, I chose "secret," but also considered "marrow," "context," and "spirit." I'm not opposed to making up words, but I want to explore the real ones first. If you have a favorite (or hate them all), please let me know.

With regard to the "in" vs. "to" smackdown: I went with "in this" but also considered "to their." Ultimately, I decided that the speaker is still part of the image, even as a shadow. I'm undecided as to whether this is nonsensical. However, I don't think that anything terribly serious is destroyed either way. If you disagree, leave me a nasty-gram in the comments.

[rowens]

I prefer vital.


If you're not afraid of repeating of,
...................................


a shadow of this imagery,
facsimile of presence.


..................

Though that would refer to the visions.

What visions were entrancing? the ones of tying their laces, or not paying attention?


The word subtlety leaves room to play.

Such as how their skating showed can lead to the assumption that the poem, at least the ending, is being spoken after the event.

.......................

Besides all that, the first version seemed to say everything, both in what's said and how.

[rowens]

I like the words vital and fluid, and the rhythm and punctuation of the first two stanzas of your poem.

I have my own symbols and nuances of rhythm and rhyme. So, what I say, as poet and critic, is based on my poetics.

A religion.


You can break rules and niceties in your art, if it is art.

But beware the nonsense of other poets' sense.

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Ok, so I reverted back to the original for now. Not negating the possibility of changing it in the future; I've been persuaded by rowens not to be too hasty. 

Thanks again for the feedback. 

~Obadiah Malachi Geezersnaps

[TranquillityBase]

Ok, so I reverted back to the original for now. Not negating the possibility of changing it in the future; I've been persuaded by rowens not to be too hasty. 

Thanks again for the feedback. 

~Obadiah Malachi Geezersnaps

O snap!  Am I too late to advocate for "context"?  And would it ruin anything at add another "what's":

"what's context and what's quintessence"

I'm glad you reverted to "in their imagery".

Also, maybe a period after "missed", a new sentence beginning with "Entranced..."

TqB

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Not too late, it's not being abandoned. I have a tendency to rush edits, that's all. 

Thanks again for your input, TqB. It will be considered. 

~Obtuse Malamute Geezersnaps

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

With regard to the question of will something get ruined by adding this or that....maybe? Depends.  

If you look at the scansion of the lines, it's iambic tetrameter in the 1st and 3rd lines of each quatrain, and iambic trimeter in the 2nd and 4th. In each quatrain, lines 1 & 3 have masculine endings, and lines 2 & 4 have feminine endings (an unstressed syllable at the end). So, yes, inserting a word that doesn't fit the meter will throw a wrench in the gears. However, it's certainly possible to change words that don't fit. The other possibilities that I was suggesting like "context" were chosen because they are two syllables and have a stress at the beginning of the word which would match the stress in the word being replaced. 

There's nothing sacred about this metrical pattern -- I pretty much just chose it because I liked it. I'm not opposed to adding more feet to a line or cutting them, but I would need to be consistent. I'd rather not change from iambs to trochees or dactyls, etc. at this point, but adding another stress or doing all masculine or feminine endings...I'm open to any of those discussions.

[TranquillityBase]

With regard to the question of will something get ruined by adding this or that....maybe? Depends.  

If you look at the scansion of the lines, it's iambic tetrameter in the 1st and 3rd lines of each quatrain, and iambic trimeter in the 2nd and 4th. In each quatrain, lines 1 & 3 have masculine endings, and lines 2 & 4 have feminine endings (an unstressed syllable at the end). So, yes, inserting a word that doesn't fit the meter will throw a wrench in the gears. However, it's certainly possible to change words that don't fit. The other possibilities that I was suggesting like "context" were chosen because they are two syllables and have a stress at the beginning of the word which would match the stress in the word being replaced. 

There's nothing sacred about this metrical pattern -- I pretty much just chose it because I liked it. I'm not opposed to adding more feet to a line or cutting them, but I would need to be consistent. I'd rather not change from iambs to trochees or dactyls, etc. at this point, but adding another stress or doing all masculine or feminine endings...I'm open to any of those discussions.

Dear Geezer,

I suspected as much.

"what's vital and quintessence" sounds good
"what's secret and quintessence" also sounds good
but "what's context and quintessence" sounds wrong.  It sounds to me like the two need to be distinguished.  Thus the additional "what's".

That said, I really think "context" the best of the word choices you suggested.

I myself am not interested in metrical devices.  I understand their value (or try to), but for me, the right words come first.

Damn the dactyls and full speed ahead....

TqB

[Mark A Becker]

Or, as ee once said:

since feeling is first
who pays any attention
to the syntax of things
will never wholly kiss you

That said, snaps, I used to pay a lot more attention to form than I do anymore. The trick, I think, is to try to get words to form as transparent a glass as possible in which to pour the poem. (I fail at that more often than not.)

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces,  The opening sets a playful tone, with perfect rhyme and rhythm- good!

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence. 
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin.  this stanza begins to lose that playfulness, and seems overly poemy (something I often do).

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,         
facsimile of presence.  If "their skating showed a subtlety I'd missed" then who saw it? If S.2 is placed more firmly in the past, then their development into the present would be clearer in S.3. Hope that makes sense.

I fully understand that feeling of beginning to feel separated from the action as the kids develop skills, and maybe you could show that in a simpler way: I see the framework of the poem more than its meaning, which blunts how I feel about it. 

- Mark

[rowens]

I come back and say again that this poem seems finished.

Otherwise, I would have reworded it in my own way.


When I read it the first time, I didn't see a thing I would change.

You maintain your chosen "form" and make sense all the way through.

There may be some ambiguity for some readers. A little challenge never hurts, often improves an otherwise bore.

I don't have kids, so I'm not into such expressions. But I admired the art of it.

---

Admired,


Ask me again in ten yeats, I mean yeats.

Shit, you know what I man


WB Yeats.


no, years.



Yes. The poem is good. Ask anybody.

[Wjames]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces, 

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin. I think the meter is wonky in this line. It threw me off - the second and fourth lines of each of the other stanzas all have seven syllables, with two iamb feet and then a bacchius. This line is nine syllables, and doesn't fit that same pattern. 'Evaporating resin' is something similar that to my read would fit the meter, but not sure if it would have the meaning you would want.

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,
facsimile of presence.

Hey OMG, I really like this, it takes me back to playing hockey as a kid with my dad tying up my skates.

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

The kids are skating solo now
and tying their own laces.
I'm left with space a scribbler needs
to study movements, faces, 

particularities of scene,
what's vital and quintessence.
I need a fluid, clear conceit,
evaporated to a resin. I think the meter is wonky in this line. It threw me off - the second and fourth lines of each of the other stanzas all have seven syllables, with two iamb feet and then a bacchius. This line is nine syllables, and doesn't fit that same pattern. 'Evaporating resin' is something similar that to my read would fit the meter, but not sure if it would have the meaning you would want.

Their skating showed a subtlety
I'd missed, entranced with visions:
I'm shadow in their imagery,
facsimile of presence.

Hey OMG, I really like this, it takes me back to playing hockey as a kid with my dad tying up my skates.

Well, I'd say I'm glad you found my error, but I most certainly am not.   
I am, however, mightily appreciative. 

Now I'm glad I never became a podiatrist... 

Not good with feet. Meter.....I'll just see myself out.

---

Thanks again to everyone who gave input. Seems to me like the poem could be good, could be bad, or poems in general could be bad. I'm going to have to think about things for a bit before I can figure out what I think.

[brynmawr1]

---

Thanks again to everyone who gave input. Seems to me like the poem could be good, could be bad, or poems in general could be bad. I'm going to have to think about things for a bit before I can figure out what I think.
[/quote]

Hey OMG,
The poem is good IMO.  It is well conceived and well written.  You have to remember that all of the suggestions are mostly tweaks, some technical and some are each person's personal preferences, as we all have different writing styles, but the poem is successful as originally written.  The hard part is sifting through the comments and picking out what you feel advances what you are trying to do otherwise you end up going down the rabbit hole of trying to fit everyone's suggestions into your poem and it ends up mushy.  I personally find it hard to do.  Buck up buttercup!

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Hi, Bryn. Thanks for stopping by, and you're certainly correct about different styles and perspectives. I'm new to this forum but not to workshopping in general. So, I want to reassure everyone that I'm fine -- I'm not injured and I'm not offended. Mostly just irked with my own inability to do math. 

But, back to your point....butter. Mmmmmmm.