Bad Poetry

[Lizzie]

So, serious question (directed at no one in particular): how do you approach critting a piece that is genuinely bad? Not bad in just one way, but fairly crappy in several areas (grammar, punctuation, format, accessibility of imagery, sonics, conceit, meter, etc). Where do you start?

I find it hard to distill the "essence de manure" into a reasonable word limit. Should I just stick with one flaw and go with it? How do you determine which errors are the most egregious?

In the first instance, I would begin with question and suggestion: was this what you meant?  You could always try it this way instead.

Like approaching a frightened bunny... instead of "Bad rabbit! Get away from there before I set the dogs on you!", more like "oh, poor hungry bunny, why don't you try this healthy nutritious carrot we keep here out in the open rather than chewing over that same stinking pile of refuse in the shadows there?"

and link to definitions/examples of techniques being used properly, or good poems that have a similar style/theme.  After all, we're not trying to hoard the secrets of good poetry for ourselves -- we're here to share it around.

The second approach, however, depends very much on the response to the first.  If said bunny then insists that the refuse pile is what it prefers to chew on and does not show any inclination to take up offers of a more nutritious, enjoyable meal... well, bunny's fair game then.  Shoot and leave it for the dogs to fight over.

Makes sense. Help first then ridicule. Can do.

[rayheinrich]

So, serious question (directed at no one in particular): how do you approach critting a piece that is genuinely bad? Not bad in just one way, but fairly crappy in several areas (grammar, punctuation, format, accessibility of imagery, sonics, conceit, meter, etc). Where do you start?

I find it hard to distill the "essence de manure" into a reasonable word limit. Should I just stick with one flaw and go with it? How do you determine which errors are the most egregious?

In the first instance, I would begin with question and suggestion: was this what you meant?  You could always try it this way instead.

Like approaching a frightened bunny... instead of "Bad rabbit! Get away from there before I set the dogs on you!", more like "oh, poor hungry bunny, why don't you try this healthy nutritious carrot we keep here out in the open rather than chewing over that same stinking pile of refuse in the shadows there?"

and link to definitions/examples of techniques being used properly, or good poems that have a similar style/theme.  After all, we're not trying to hoard the secrets of good poetry for ourselves -- we're here to share it around.

The second approach, however, depends very much on the response to the first.  If said bunny then insists that the refuse pile is what it prefers to chew on and does not show any inclination to take up offers of a more nutritious, enjoyable meal... well, bunny's fair game then.  Shoot and leave it for the dogs to fight over.

Makes sense. Help first then ridicule. Can do.

Yes. I try to employ Leanne's techniques... though often fail through sheer lack of character -- meaning I turn rabbit tail,
don't comment at all, and go looking for someone requiring less effort.

[Lizzie]

P.S. For every bad poem, there is a worser reader.

That's the effing truth, isn't it?

[rayheinrich]

back in the day i was a goodish troll who could wind people up with little trouble. you're a brightish sort who's capable of some good poetry; i see that in your words but and this is the biggy, you're a bullshitter with a penchant for the limelight. while we're happy to take complaints from members we do expect those who don't like it here to leave...sorry, to fuck off and spout your drizzle in the local library, oh that's right you can't. stop trying to get a rise from us we don't care for it and if you believe that's not what you're doing, fine; you know now. personally i've asked for the mods to ban you on numerous occasions but the fuckers keep overpowering me. carry on and i will just do it anyway. place a little nicer or fuck off.

If you banned Rowens I'd raise such a stink that you'd have to ban me (again) as well.
Really, why do you say such stuff? Talk about trolling... damn, I took your bait!
Ray

[ellajam]

back in the day i was a goodish troll who could wind people up with little trouble. you're a brightish sort who's capable of some good poetry; i see that in your words but and this is the biggy, you're a bullshitter with a penchant for the limelight. while we're happy to take complaints from members we do expect those who don't like it here to leave...sorry, to fuck off and spout your drizzle in the local library, oh that's right you can't. stop trying to get a rise from us we don't care for it and if you believe that's not what you're doing, fine; you know now. personally i've asked for the mods to ban you on numerous occasions but the fuckers keep overpowering me. carry on and i will just do it anyway. place a little nicer or fuck off.

If you banned Rowens I'd raise such a stink that you'd have to ban me (again) as well.
Really, why do you say such stuff? Talk about trolling... damn, I took your bait!
Ray

Really, why do you say such stuff? Daring is probably not a good idea. Stop fucking with my happiness.

[rayheinrich]

back in the day i was a goodish troll who could wind people up with little trouble. you're a brightish sort who's capable of some good poetry; i see that in your words but and this is the biggy, you're a bullshitter with a penchant for the limelight. while we're happy to take complaints from members we do expect those who don't like it here to leave...sorry, to fuck off and spout your drizzle in the local library, oh that's right you can't. stop trying to get a rise from us we don't care for it and if you believe that's not what you're doing, fine; you know now. personally i've asked for the mods to ban you on numerous occasions but the fuckers keep overpowering me. carry on and i will just do it anyway. place a little nicer or fuck off.

If you banned Rowens I'd raise such a stink that you'd have to ban me (again) as well.
Really, why do you say such stuff? Talk about trolling... damn, I took your bait!
Ray

Really, why do you say such stuff? Daring is probably not a good idea. Stop fucking with my happiness.

    Daring? I was threatening with absolute certainty. (But your happiness... never in doubt.)

[billy]

if or when anyone gets a site ban for a valid reason; no other members will be thought of as some kind of bargaining chip but you know that already if someone is wrongly banned we will accept membership input

back in the day i was a goodish troll who could wind people up with little trouble. you're a brightish sort who's capable of some good poetry; i see that in your words but and this is the biggy, you're a bullshitter with a penchant for the limelight. while we're happy to take complaints from members we do expect those who don't like it here to leave...sorry, to fuck off and spout your drizzle in the local library, oh that's right you can't. stop trying to get a rise from us we don't care for it and if you believe that's not what you're doing, fine; you know now. personally i've asked for the mods to ban you on numerous occasions but the fuckers keep overpowering me. carry on and i will just do it anyway. place a little nicer or fuck off.

If you banned Rowens I'd raise such a stink that you'd have to ban me (again) as well.
Really, why do you say such stuff? Talk about trolling... damn, I took your bait!
Ray

[Lizzie]

Ya'll are a bunch of threadjackers.

 Most everyone starts by writing horrible poetry

There should be a thread where we post one of our first works.

[QDeathstar]

What? Rowens fits right in with the discussion of #badpoetry.


SICK BRUN BRO.

[Leanne]

There should be a thread where we post one of our first works.

There is, somewhere. Probably in the Arse.

[Leanne]

Nope, right here in discussion -- What was your first poem?

[rayheinrich]

Nope, right here in discussion -- What was your first poem?

In the link above, I think my favorite post is by citizen newsclippings:

        "I'm pretty sure my first poem was a fart."

It's all, truly, downhill from there.



yet again, billy denies me seppuku:

               
                Kunikazu Utagawa -- woodblock print

[Leanne]

Some days it's quite difficult to tell if someone's just not a good writer and is really trying, or if they think they're clever and they're taking the piss by creating a sock puppet account and acting like a completely new person.

[Leanne]

Today, by the way, is not that day. Sometimes it's pretty obvious.

[just mercedes]

Today, by the way, is not that day.  Sometimes it's pretty obvious.

How high the pie? 

[Leanne]

Oh, but it's not really a pie, it's a pi, and because we're artistes we don't know what that means so it must pass for cleverness. I mean, I've never before seen that pun made, have you? Très original.