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It is no lamb but lambs that draw the tiger,
say foolish ewe or schizophrenic ram --
the burning beast whose fearful symmetry
strikes awful dread even in pastors' eyes
spots then stalks then pounces on those alone
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flock
toward his fellow cats. Now caution reaps
murder like courage to speak, light to see,
how times have changed: as lions wait for death
and falcons gyre, tigers gather in packs
and wethers peel the poets from the flock,
guessing them better eucharist than eyes.
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride,
true art return and mend a nation's mind?
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(10-13-2016, 07:46 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: The Bard's Warning
It is no lamb but lambs that draw the cat ...I suppose you mean 'it is not one lamb, but serveral that draws the cat' - if something else, it's not clear. The assertion is not grounded in reality.
whose fearful symmetry strikes awful dread ....this is unjustified hyperbole that spoils the allusion, since He smiled His work to see
even in our Lord's eyes -- as if your course, ....don't see how the 'as if' carries on a consistent, coherent train of thought from the previous line
aloof and distant from the flock, should grant
security. It is no lamb -- the tiger
spots then stalks then pounces on those alone
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flock
toward his fellow hunters. Times have changed: ....the tiger by its sound of feasting draws the flock towards other tigers? An unhelpful because false analogy.
as lions wait for death and falcons gyre, ..falcons always gyre. The point was that the falcon couldn't hear the falconer.
tigers gather in flocks and lambs divide. ...wait - didn't you just say that a flock of lambs was being stalked by the tiger's mates?
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride? ...sudden, unconnected reference to Allah
When shall new verse thus well-considered mend
a nation's mind -- and ill-considered, lead
to overthrow of slaughter, haste, and greed? ...some allusion to the welcome cleansing of riff-raff in the Philippines? Too general. Could be anything.
Hi RN - this one I found to be too highfaultin, full of false analogies and misleading allusions. Either that, or I've misread the entire thing, which is also quite possible.
~ I think I just quoted myself - Achebe
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I think I read you've been reading blake lately? I think I see that here.
some comments
(10-13-2016, 07:46 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: The Bard's Warning
It is no lamb but lambs that draw the cat
whose fearful symmetry strikes awful dread fearful symmetry is cool, tiger stripes?
even in our Lord's eyes -- as if your course,
aloof and distant from the flock, should grant if lambs draw the cat, then wouldn't a single lamb distant from the flock not draw the cat?
security. It is no lamb -- the tiger
spots then stalks then pounces on those alone so a lamb then does draw the cat?
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flock birds?
toward his fellow hunters. Times have changed:
as lions wait for death and falcons gyre,
tigers gather in flocks and lambs divide. divide what? this is a play on the lion lying with the lamb?
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride? again referencing the lord god's fear, which reverses fear of the lord god..this is connecting to the role reversal of tigers adn lambs?
When shall new verse thus well-considered mend
a nation's mind -- and ill-considered, lead
to overthrow of slaughter, haste, and greed? so this is a rebirth of religion?
sorry for the confusion on this
Thanks to this Forum
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Thanks for the feedback. Trying to be political is hard -- spitting this out, all I got is inconsistencies. I think the skeleton of the poem works, it's just misapplied and misarranged, as you two have dutifully pointed out. Thus, I've rearranged and deleted some sections, added a few others, ultimately tweaked the message. I hope this version is a lot clearer and more consistent. Now responses:
L1 -- @Achebe, exactly. But the point is that the times are changing, so that the assertion is grounded in the reality of the poem.
L2 -- @Achebe, actually the line ran "DID HE smile his work to see?", ie Blake kept that ambiguous. But anyways, I have changed that, to (hopefully) add another layer of criticism.
L3 -- @Achebe, it doesn't. The first draft was meant to be the Bard's warning to the lamb/artist that finds himself straying from the flock, but eh, I was unsuccessful. Thus, I've removed it.
L4 -- @kolemath, I suppose the point of the original is that when tigers are drawn to lonely lambs, they're not drawn to just said lambs -- in the changed world of the poem, they're ultimately just using those lambs as bait. But yes, that was very inconsistently developed, so I've done a bit of rearranging, deleting, etc -- I hope those change clarify that point.
L9 -- @Achebe, precisely. Things always change, the statement, taken on its own, points out ---- but taken as the allusion to Yeats that it is, changes now are spiralling out of control. And with the sustained allusion with "slouching pride", as well as all this talk of "lions waiting for death" and "tigers gathering in flocks", I don't think I need to spell out the whole thing, in-poem.
L10 -- @Achebe, @kolemath, thus the whole thing is rewritten, to state a slightly modified version of my actual point -- where the unstated (or at least clumsily stated) point of the previous was that those lambs of clearer vision split from the flock because whatever, now it's the wethers among the sheep splitting them because, well, thither. I hope it works.
L11 -- @Achebe, again, it's meant to be a sustaining of the allusion to The Second Coming -- I have no idea how that relates to Islam. @kolemath, yes, although the revision now muddies that idea, hopefully for the benefit of other, more relevant ones.
L14 -- @Achebe, it could also be Trump, too. I don't think with this piece I have to be so direct, I'm working on this more as an exercise on imagery than something to get hearts and minds going -- though now I've switched that couplet for another, hoping the plainer one to be, if not timelier or more specific, at least pointier, more direct.
On y'all's conclusions -- @Achebe, I mean, in terms of false analogies and misleading allusions, I think you've misread it, but generally, you got the gist of it, and as for highfalutin, I think it's definitely pompous, but not so high up its ass, I think, that its bones can't speak to the modern reader. @kolemath, although if you got confused, then may it is so high up -- or was, with the new edit hopefully mitigating that. Again, thanks for the feedback!
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River, can I ask a question? Who's your intended audience? I think I could probably be of more help if I knew the purpose of the piece, to lament or persuade? Warn of danger? Judge the unrighteous?
I ask because it sounds....I don't know how to say this, but almost like a sermon, except the sermons that I'm accustomed to involve clear statements about 'this is what's going wrong, and this is what we need to do about it.' I'm not quite with you on either of those elements yet, although the revision is moving in the direction of clarity.
I have a couple of line notes, but I'm curious about your vision for the work.
(10-13-2016, 07:46 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: It is no lamb but lambs that draw the tiger, -- I'm with kole that it's confusing to say that a lone lamb doesn't draw a tiger. What point are you trying to make with the number differential of the lambs? Surely lambs in any quantity would draw all kinds of different predators? Am I being too factual, perhaps? Ok, I'll just go with it. 
say foolish ewe or schizophrenic ram -- If this is a cautionary tale about straying from the flock or about the need for faith, I don't think it makes much sense to pull in notions of mental illness, since schizophrenia can't be helped. Again, this is where it would be helpful for me to know what point you're trying to make.
the burning beast whose fearful symmetry
strikes awful dread even in pastors' eyes
spots then stalks then pounces on those alone -- I don't love the two then's
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flock
toward his fellow cats. Now caution reaps -- caution reaping murder sounds so strange to me, perhaps because murder is so active and caution more passive. Perhaps caution reaps death, decay, disorderliness -- those sound more like the natural consequences associated with the failure to engage.
murder like courage to speak, light to see,
how times have changed: as lions wait for death
and falcons gyre, tigers gather in packs
and wethers peel the poets from the flock,
guessing them better eucharist than eyes. -- I'm just so lost. I can't agree or disagree. I could apply these images to something of my own choosing, but what would be the value in that?
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride,
true art return and mend a nation's mind? -- 'true art?' A vaguer statement more open to misinterpretation I've never seen. 
I also love the audacity of naming it "The Bard's Something"  I suspect that we're together in our confusion about this piece.
It does read well, though. You have such obvious talent, I just think you need to be clearer with yourself about your intentions for it all to come together.
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(10-13-2016, 07:46 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: It is no lamb but lambs that draw the tiger, .... why not just 'lambs draw the tiger'? Tighter.
say foolish ewe or schizophrenic ram -- ....superfluous line
the burning beast whose fearful symmetry .... reproducing too much kills the charm of the allusion. Suggest cut out 'fearful'
strikes awful dread even in pastors' eyes ... 'awful' and 'even' are overladen
spots then stalks then pounces on those alone
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flock
toward his fellow cats. Now caution reaps .... I still don't understand how the sound of feasting draws the flock towards his fellows.
murder like courage to speak, light to see,
how times have changed: as lions wait for death ... at 'changed' I'm despairing to make sense of what I've just read
and falcons gyre, tigers gather in packs ..... since tigers don't ordinarily gather in packs but falcons gyre all the time, I'm struggling to see the point of mentioning them both together. The Yeats allusion is weak, as mentioned earlier.
and wethers peel the poets from the flock,
guessing them better eucharist than eyes.
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride,
true art return and mend a nation's mind? ... what???
~ I think I just quoted myself - Achebe
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Thanks for the much-needed feedback! I suppose it's shifting from warning to lament, or really a rant. The audience should be a general audience -- rather, a general 18th century audience -- and it seems to have mutated from being concerned with lambs separating from the flock, to lambs, specifically those considered "foolish" or "schizophrenic", being separated from the flock. Wrestling with this is getting hard -- but anyway, responses, now unaccompanied by an edit.
L1 -- @lizziep, that is to say, at least in version 2, that use the few as sacrifices or lures all you want, the tigers will still attack you.
L2 -- @lizziep, @Achebe, and so that seemingly superfluous, although perhaps truly superfluous, line
L3 -- @Achebe, good point, now with the whole "burning beasts" thing. Will think of something -- and I feel more to removing burning instead of fearful, fearful symmetry is just such a pretty phrase.
L5 -- @lizziep, I'm trying to keep the breath uniform; earlier, unwritten versions didn't have them, but then felt too short, out of place. Perhaps I'll retry in the next draft.
L7 -- @Achebe, that is to say, when they hear the tigers eat they comrade, they go the exact opposite direction, where the other tigers lie in wait. Elaborating on this in the poem could help cut out a lot of the superfluous stuff....
L10 -- @Achebe, now I get it. Will think of something for the whole gyre thing.
L12 -- @lizziep, that is to say, the wethers think the poets among the flock would make better fodder for the lions than artists.
L14 -- @lizziep, @Achebe, so, uh, yeah. "True art" is definitely almost comically vague, and now I too am scratching my head on this -- not because I don't understand this, but because I understand this so well I can't think of the right approach to make this, well, understandable.
On y'all's conclusions -- @lizziep, and technically, only the thread is titled "The Bard's Something", the current version is, due to that same confusion, untitled. Again, thanks to you both for the critique!
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Hi river! I just want to critique it because I will probably learn something. I think you've got a real way with words that has lasting effect.
(10-13-2016, 07:46 PM)RiverNotch Wrote: It is no lamb but lambs that draw the tiger,
say foolish ewe or schizophrenic ram --I feel like this line was needed to explain the first line. It's a smart tiger to consider why that lamb is alone?
the burning beast whose fearful symmetrythat's cool like tiger stripes are more or less symmetrical
strikes awful dread even in pastors' eyes I naturally want to say 'in even'
spots then stalks then pounces on those alonehave you tried to say this with the accents on 'then' neat effect, but I thought the tiger would not be drawn to the lone lamb
and by his sounds of feasting draws the flockso it sounds like the tiger is drawn to the lone lamb, in order to scare the flock towards the other tigers.
toward his fellow cats. Now caution reaps
murder like courage to speak, light to see,I don't want to say murder because 'now' seems like feasting, we need light to see, courage to speak, and the tiger needs a hesitation from his prey to make the kill?
how times have changed: as lions wait for death how times have changed for all creatures, since you describe the life habits of 3 or 4 different species after?
and falcons gyre, tigers gather in packs
and wethers peel the poets from the flock,I love the sheeple
guessing them better eucharist than eyes.'than eucharist'?
When shall God's fear revive the slouching pride,I think I know what you want to say, I see pride, I'm thinking lion they were mentioned earlier, but you start with Tiger. Pride has two meanings, but one also has two connotations
true art return and mend a nation's mind?I'm either seeing art as the poet's in the flock being returned, but now I can't relate the pride I had, thinking the tiger was the protagonist I guess. All creatures...the bard's warning something for sure but to who about what exactly, I missed
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