Samsara

[Erthona]

milo writing accentual verse. I can die now!

" Mange is" 

I think writing this in a villanelle forces you into too many concessions. The "So" at the very beginning alerted me to the fact that this was a form/formal poem as that was such an unnatural way to start. Of course the villanelle becomes apparent with the repetition. I am unsure if one can write a villanelle that sounds natural, I do not believe I have seen one that did not seem artificial. It is just so difficult to cover over the things one must do to adhere to form and still retain a sense that this is natural language. Regardless, you did not achieve that. I felt the form kept you from fully explicating the idea of your title, although you did remarkably well to get in what you did...

"So" should I blame the poet, the form, or the poet for choosing the form for a less than stellar offering?
Maybe all of the above.

dale

[ellajam]

edit #2

Samsara

So follow the call of crows to the river Ganges - I like the sound of this better but So is an odd start.
and find the bodies mounded in a swamp
that paint the scent of death across the ranges.

The himalaya cycle never changes. Possibly Himalayan.
God's eye the wick, and there you set your lamp Lovely.
and followed the call of crows. The river Ganges -

the source of life and on that source life hinges - I like the double source here and find hinges worth the slant.
and sets those greedy banks as life's last camp
that paints the scent of death across the ranges.

There, dogs compete amidst the plenty. Mange is Love the rhyme here.
wild in thin fur, their snarling breath is damp. Strong.
They followed the call of crows to the river Ganges.

They didn't seek rebirth - more scourge or binges
They didn't seek out life’s parade and stamp I like that this stays about the dogs while talking of humans.
that paints the stench of death.  Across the ranges

of jewels and silks and opulence and dinges I'm not sure of dinges here, thingamabobs? You haven't used fringes, maybe that could work, lovely line otherwise after all the filth, prettier excess.
of human trash that mountains into dumps. Again I didn't mind the slant.
So follow the call of crows to the river Ganges
that paints the stench of death across the ranges.

Always fun to read, and work on, a ville, you did a good job with it. I wouldn't have been secure enough to use that many slants but the read is smooth.

[milo]

milo writing accentual verse. I can die now!

" Mange is" 

I think writing this in a villanelle forces you into too many concessions. The "So" at the very beginning alerted me to the fact that this was a form/formal poem as that was such an unnatural way to start. Of course the villanelle becomes apparent with the repetition. I am unsure if one can write a villanelle that sounds natural, I do not believe I have seen one that did not seem artificial. It is just so difficult to cover over the things one must do to adhere to form and still retain a sense that this is natural language. Regardless, you did not achieve that. I felt the form kept you from fully explicating the idea of your title, although you did remarkably well to get in what you did...

"So" should I blame the poet, the form, or the poet for choosing the form for a less than stellar offering?
Maybe all of the above.

dale

I don't think it necessary to blame either but, rather treat it as a work in progress submitted for work shopping and offer specific areas you think need work. The "so" wouldn't be required for it to be metrically correct, btw, it was just added in the latest version.

Thanks for reading and commenting.

[Erthona]

Just a joke milo, no need to get touché!


dale

[milo]

I couldn't tell if you were joking or not. Either way the answer would probably be the same - not out of touchiness but because a simple direct question usually deserves a simple direct response.

[Erthona]

I am truly curious, what prompted you to write about Samsara and BTW, though you probably know, there is an alternate word for Ganges one can use which is "Ganga". Then of course when it passes into Bangladesh it is called "Padma" and at it mouth it is called "Meghna". Almost like passing from one life to the next. Still the same river, but as it moves in space and time it acquires a different name as though it too is being reincarnated. Just a thought.

dale

[milo]

I am truly curious, what prompted you to write about Samsara and BTW, though you probably know, there is an alternate word for Ganges one can use which is "Ganga". Then of course when it passes into Bangladesh it is called "Padma" and at it mouth it is called "Meghna". Almost like passing from one life to the next. Still the same river, but as it moves in space and time it acquires a different name as though it too is being reincarnated. Just a thought.

dale

Yes, the usage of Ganges identifies the narrator as a westerner. Initially I was drawn to the odd dissonance of the Ganges/ranges off rhyme. As I researched the river, I was drawn to the practice of dumping bodies in the river to stop the cycle. As a westerner, I am drawn to the irony of a practice celebrating the source of life by killing it. That irony led to the revelation of a double irony. A Hinhdi might not see the destruction of the cycle of life the same but karmic ally they would be trapped. Voila - reason to write a poem. It seems a poem about balancing the cycle of life and death should be a villanelle.

[milo]

edit #2

Samsara

So follow the call of crows to the river Ganges - I like the sound of this better but So is an odd start.
and find the bodies mounded in a swamp
that paint the scent of death across the ranges.

The himalaya cycle never changes. Possibly Himalayan.
God's eye the wick, and there you set your lamp Lovely.
and followed the call of crows. The river Ganges -

the source of life and on that source life hinges - I like the double source here and find hinges worth the slant.
and sets those greedy banks as life's last camp
that paints the scent of death across the ranges.

There, dogs compete amidst the plenty. Mange is Love the rhyme here.
wild in thin fur, their snarling breath is damp. Strong.
They followed the call of crows to the river Ganges.

They didn't seek rebirth - more scourge or binges
They didn't seek out life’s parade and stamp I like that this stays about the dogs while talking of humans.
that paints the stench of death.  Across the ranges

of jewels and silks and opulence and dinges I'm not sure of dinges here, thingamabobs? You haven't used fringes, maybe that could work, lovely line otherwise after all the filth, prettier excess.
of human trash that mountains into dumps. Again I didn't mind the slant.
So follow the call of crows to the river Ganges
that paints the stench of death across the ranges.

Always fun to read, and work on, a ville, you did a good job with it. I wouldn't have been secure enough to use that many slants but the read is smooth.

Thanks for commenting again, ell.  You are right about "so", it is a bit of a throwback - perhaps even a touch of an inside joke, it will definitley go in the next revision.  I feel that some of the rhymes currently sound forced or awkward so i will possibble be re-tweaking again.  I think the whole thing was inspired by slants and when that happens, there is sort of a feeling that if you don't carry it through it will seem accidental.

[Erthona]

Milo wrote: " As I researched the river, I was drawn to the practice of dumping bodies in the river to stop the cycle. As a westerner, I am drawn to the irony of a practice celebrating the source of life by killing it."

Thanks. Yes, I vaguely remember studying that at some point, something to do with an elephant first standing on four legs, which is Brahman, then removing a leg as time passes until Shiva the destroyer crashes everything and then the cycle starts over again. So I guess in some kind of weird way, if one is toward the unstable end of the cycle, one might wish to further it along to get back to Brahman so to speak. I think I only got interested in studying the Hindu religion because of the Hesse book, which talks a lot about such things as Samsara, since Siddhartha's father, at least in Hesse's book was a Hindu priest, but you've read it I'm sure. Looking at it in the respect of the Hindu cycle, I guess a villanelle is really not a bad choice, but better you than me

dale