Marathon-edit 2 (tectak, ellijam, Bena, billy)

[LorettaYoung]

Marathon- edit 2 (tectak, ellijam, Bena, billy)

Inspire the race with love and gratitude,'
for what you reap rests on right attitude.
Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
knowing clear choice and chance affect the goal.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then race to our next date seeking romance.
We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens that screen scars.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need.
Truth is; some place along the path we'll bleed.
Invigorate your strength to sprint anew.
Trust trails of truth; float rivers by canoe.

Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips tastes sweet like fresh pressed wine.
The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros' songs of love lure to embrace.

Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding,
our days of life are racing and eroding.
Escape from self, the thought, we try to run,
but time speaks to our flesh to rest in sun.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path.
A bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
Yet God arrives to sabotage that season
with grace, our love and gratitude the reason.

g.e.Kaye edit 3/23/15





Marathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness,
that rugged roads not end in emptiness.

Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need,
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars.

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine,
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace.

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding
our days of life are racing to eroding.

Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found.

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come to shatter that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[ellajam]

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

Hi, Loretta, life as a race, though not new, can be interesting. This has some syntax problems that really hinder the reading for me.

Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.

L1:If by inclined you mean uphill, maybe "They race uphill."
L2:why not say don't or won't lean?
L3: While the f sounds are nice, I'm not sure how passion eases need.
L4: How does one bleed a road?
L5: typo and
You can see how confused I am. Much of the poem is clearer but it's a rough start. I think if you try to say it a bit more plainly, not in vocabulary but in sentence structure, it would not be such a puzzle. If the rhymes are making you twist you might try it without it first and see what happens from there.

I think you can do a bit better on some of the the rhymes. Gratefulness/emptiness and hide/declined didn't work too well for me.

You've got plenty to work with here, hope my comments help a bit.

[bena]

this is begging for white space and organization into stanzas, it would look so much better on the page. I agree with ella about the rhymes being a bit too easy...look for the odd rhymes that you haven't heard before. Slant rhymes are ok, but I can't see hide/declined to be good in any accent, and I tried really hard.

Let the poem tell the story...not the rhymes. It's hard to do, but it's possible.

Hope you have fun revising!

mel.

[LorettaYoung]

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart and soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

Hi, Loretta, life as a race, though not new, can be interesting. This has some syntax problems that really hinder the reading for me.

Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.

L1:If by inclined you mean uphill, maybe "They race uphill."
L2:why not say don't or won't lean?
L3: While the f sounds are nice, I'm not sure how passion eases need.
L4: How does one bleed a road?
L5: typo and
You can see how confused I am. Much of the poem is clearer but it's a rough start. I think if you try to say it a bit more plainly, not in vocabulary but in sentence structure, it would not be such a puzzle. If the rhymes are making you twist you might try it without it first and see what happens from there.
I think you can do a bit better on some of the the rhymes. Gratefulness/emptiness and hide/declined didn't work too well for me.
You've got plenty to work with here, hope my comments help a bit.

Hi Ellijam: Thanks for the read, actually I thought this poem needed help and I appreciate you're stopping by. I will answer your questions:
L1 incline here means to lean towards, think of.
L2 I thought the way I said it more lyrical, possibly not, if not I would change it to the more grammatically language you suggest
L3 Fervent used defined as active, stretched to healthy, assuming that health help get what we need. The word I dislike if facilitates.
L4 It's a metaphor, for the bumps and bruises we get along the race, or on the road
L5 typo, thank you, fixed it.
As to the rhymes, the end syllables end on the same tone; is that not sufficient or must the whole word rhyme,
something I guess I'm not sure of.
As to sentence structure; I fight between maintaining that with lyricism and poetics, otherwise it's seem just talk to me.  I do think you are right about the rough start; although I understand it, am not quite happy with it.
All these problems are why I posted, so thanks very much, it was very helpful. Hope my answers about the Lines are understandable, and if you could let me know about the rhymes I'd appreciate it. Best Loretta

---

this is begging for white space and organization into stanzas, it would look so much better on the page.  I agree with ella about the rhymes being a bit too easy...look for the odd rhymes that you haven't heard before.  Slant rhymes are ok, but I can't see hide/declined to be good in any accent, and I tried really hard.  
Let the poem tell the story...not the rhymes.  It's hard to do, but it's possible.  
Hope you have fun revising!
mel.

Hi bena; stanzas are an interesting suggestion, but I kept it in line because it is one lone race I'm talking about; perhaps you are right about stanzas; to divide the race into eras.
I don't know what you mean about easy rhymes.  Could you please give me some examples; yes, I see both you and ellajam are right about that rhyme when I see it separate from the poem;  and I think when I was reading I was hearing the internal rhyme in the line, mind declined. Yes, that's what I was hearing; how about hide/defied.
Thanks Bena, I really appreciate the advice; yes fun revising. laughing. Best Loretta

PS: Mel: I use the rhyme because I want to hear more than story telling. Lyricism is very important to me and yes, very hard to do; thanks again

[bena]

This acts like it's a sonnet, and yet, it's not. The AA, BB, CC etc formula can be sometimes too sing songy to sound serious on. In reality, you asked for examples---all of your end rhymes are easy rhymes. Not saying that to discourage you...just to get you thinking about how you can improve in future poems. =)

[LorettaYoung]

This acts like it's a sonnet, and yet, it's not. The AA, BB, CC etc formula can be sometimes too sing songy to sound serious on.  In reality, you asked for examples---all of your end rhymes are easy rhymes. Not saying that to discourage you...just to get you thinking about how you can improve in future poems.  =)

Hi Bena: you mean easy rhyme is couplets? It's interesting that you say that? I definitely connected music in my thinking when I started this challenging art. I can understand though that being too sing songy can detract from the seriousness in many cases.  And it's not discouraging. I appreciate all input from experienced poets and thank you
very much. I will certainly keep this in mind when writing newer poems. Thanks again, Loretta

[billy]

it's always good to see poets haring an aim, be it rhyme or meter or something else. here the meter and rhyme seem to be what you're aiming for. at present the poem as a whole feels forced shoehorned in to fit both criteria. [though the meter does fail in places. [count the last few lines to start with]] the next aim should be to make such poems feel like they naturally fit, even if it means changing the meter in places. i think a verse format, even couplets separated with line spacing could add to the poem.
not a bad effort.
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul, [just an example]
incline needs something added to make it work better. a suggestion would be [inclined]
watch out for repetition and cliche. [cliche can hide so good you miss it for ten edits and then it pops up and you think "how did i miss that"

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed. road could be changed
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul, flesh has already been used, try something else
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance, i think this line is superb, alliteration being just one of the devices you use.
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding. flesh
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined. flesh again
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[tectak]

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness Do you mean "Inclined to race to love and....."? It makes  no sense otherwise
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness. Do you mean "...lead not to.."? It makes no sense otherwise.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need, What is fervent flesh? It makes no sense at all
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed. How does one, or two, bleed a road. It makes no sense at all
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul, Run in flesh? Repeat of flesh. ad typo
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. This line makes sense so now I am concerned
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance, Phew! Lost again. That's better....but wait. I get this but was still thinking
then speed to our next date in velvet pants. Rhyme if you can, but don't if you can't..which rhymes with pant. Nearly. Pants and pants. You can do better. If you cannot rhyme with dance.. change dance. You are in charge.
" In paper pants we waddle, dance and run
then in velvet strides seek adult fun" Your poem. Make life easy
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars striving not shooting. If you are shooting why climb? Just get a bigger gun
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars. Forced ryhmes sometimes make sense. Not often, though
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine Yep. No surprise there. Now, "BEHOLD the ripened chestnuts onthe vine!"That would be a behold
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine. Do you mean " that to our lips tastes sweet as virgin wine"? It makes no sense otherwise. The vine/wine rhyme is a little spoon moon June. What is virgin wine?
The morning sun shines on a face of grace Good morning, Grace....who are you? You do not say
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place. I have no idea what this means. Do you?
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding. Flesh again. Do you mean " our days of (in?) flesh are rapidly eroding"? It makes no sense otherwise.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found. Gobbledygook caused by a forced rhyme you stumbled across. Take more time to make yourself clear. It is great fun, stimulating and satisfying.I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but would defend to the death your right to try to say it. Please, though, say it clearly in the end. Maybe:
"Someone is chasing you, you look around
in desperation; shadows on the ground." Your poem.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide; Do you mean "Escaped from self,  I think where can I hide?" It makes no sense otherwise.
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined. Were you once frightened by a butcher's dog? You are obsessed with flesh Do you mean " My flesh the stress resists what mind cannot decide" It makes no sense either way.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, Phew! The Weather Report. Blessed relief
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath. Is that the big Satan or the little satan?
But God may come, to dispossess that season, I mean, if we are talking the big God then it's not fair on Satan. No comma after come...dispossess the  season (what season? You forgot to say) of what?
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason. No idea what this means but you cannot dispossess  "by". Do you mean "of"? It makes no sense otherwise. Note to self. Do I mean "anyway"? It makes no sense, "otherwise"
Hi loretta,
welcome front outside the fold.
Read your words out loud. If it all sounds OK  to you, you are of Dutch parentage brought up in Navajho reservation run by Klingons.
Seriously though. You just need to really work on your clarity issues. Don't be a rhyme whore if you don't like lex. Express simple concepts in simple sentences...poetry creates its own environment. It is the poet who complicates poetry.
Best,
tectak
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[LorettaYoung]

it'
s always good to see poets haing an aim, be it rhyme or meter or something else. here the meter and rhyme seem to be what you're aiming for. at present the poem as a whole feels forced shoehorned in to fit both criteria. [though the meter does fail in places. [count the last few lines to start with]] the next aim should be to make such poems feel like they naturally fit, even if it means changing the meter in places. i think a verse format, even couplets separated with line spacing could add to the poem.
not a bad effort.
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
the race in flesh with heart ad soul, [just an example]
incline needs something added to make it work better. a suggestion would be [inclined]
watch out for repetition and cliche. [cliche can hide so good you miss it for ten edits and then it pops up and you
think "how did i miss that"

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed. road could be changed  / How about along the road
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul, flesh has already been used, try something else
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance, i think this line is superb, alliteration being just one of the devices you use.
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding. flesh
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined. flesh again
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

Hi Billy, yes, last two lines have an extra syllable, that does mean the meter is wrong, even though the stressor sound the same? 
Do you mean altering meter as eg. a stanza of 4,3,4,3?, or tetrameter as 4,4 3?  Yes, I didn't see it, toooooooo many FLESH, How about "along the road we'll bleed"?
Yes, forced, shoehorned, I kept trying to figure out why I didn't like it; one of the major reasons. I did it in continuous couplet as I thought a marathon should be continuous; however, as you and Bena suggest; I will try to think of a way to lighten it up.
Thanks billy; I've gotten such valuable advice, much appreciated, really did need someone to tell me why I didn't like it.
You mention cliché; I know how strongly you feel about it here; however, to be truthful, philosophically, I don't really understand the viewpoint; can you tell me if "forget me not" is a cliché". Thanks again. Loretta

---

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness Do you mean "Inclined to race to love and....."? It makes  no sense otherwise
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness. Do you mean "...lead not to.."? It makes no sense otherwise.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need, What is fervent flesh? It makes no sense at all
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed. How does one, or two, bleed a road. It makes no sense at all
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul, Run in flesh? Repeat of flesh. ad typo
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. This line makes sense so now I am concerned
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance, Phew! Lost again. That's better....but wait. I get this but was still thinking
then speed to our next date in velvet pants. Rhyme if you can, but don't if you can't..which rhymes with pant. Nearly. Pants and pants. You can do better. If you cannot rhyme with dance.. change dance. You are in charge.
" In paper pants we waddle, dance and run
then in velvet strides seek adult fun" Your poem. Make life easy
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars striving not shooting. If you are shooting why climb? Just get a bigger gun
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars. Forced ryhmes sometimes make sense. Not often, though
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine Yep. No surprise there. Now, "BEHOLD the ripened chestnuts onthe vine!"That would be a behold
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine. Do you mean " that to our lips tastes sweet as virgin wine"? It makes no sense otherwise. The vine/wine rhyme is a little spoon moon June. What is virgin wine?
The morning sun shines on a face of grace Good morning, Grace....who are you? You do not say
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place. I have no idea what this means. Do you?
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding. Flesh again. Do you mean " our days of (in?) flesh are rapidly eroding"? It makes no sense otherwise.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found. Gobbledygook caused by a forced rhyme you stumbled across. Take more time to make yourself clear. It is great fun, stimulating and satisfying.I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but would defend to the death your right to try to say it. Please, though, say it clearly in the end. Maybe:
"Someone is chasing you, you look around
in desperation; shadows on the ground." Your poem.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide; Do you mean "Escaped from self,  I think where can I hide?" It makes no sense otherwise.
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined. Were you once frightened by a butcher's dog? You are obsessed with flesh Do you mean " My flesh the stress resists what mind cannot decide" It makes no sense either way.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, Phew! The Weather Report. Blessed relief
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath. Is that the big Satan or the little satan?
But God may come, to dispossess that season, I mean, if we are talking the big God then it's not fair on Satan. No comma after come...dispossess the  season (what season? You forgot to say) of what?
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason. No idea what this means but you cannot dispossess  "by". Do you mean "of"? It makes no sense otherwise. Note to self. Do I mean "anyway"? It makes no sense, "otherwise"
Hi loretta,
welcome front outside the fold.
Read your words out loud. If it all sounds OK  to you, you are of Dutch parentage brought up in Navajho reservation run by Klingons.
Seriously though. You just need to really work on your clarity issues. Don't be a rhyme whore if you don't like lex. Express simple concepts in simple sentences...poetry creates its own environment. It is the poet who complicates poetry.
Best,
tectak
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

Hi tectak: However did you know that I am of Dutch parentage brought up on a Navajho reservation by Klingons?
laughing. Concepts in simple sentences when I am looking for metaphors, imagery, illiteration and assonance; all which interest me to lyricism; yet, as billy says it feels shoehorned; how can I achieve these elements and not be a rhyme whore; practice I guess.
Li, L2 yes, Line 4 meant vigorous, healthy,  L3, isn't there imagery in leaning roads? if not it leads. L5 don't many road have wounding bumps and bruises, and, the line is off meter anyway; so possibly "truth bare somewhere along the road we'll bleed"?
L5 Our bodies do the work, our spirit gives us direction, and mere chance, (like an accident) may change or alter or help define the goal or change it. Does that make sense?
L7-8. Ooh, sorry, really thought pants and dance a rhyme, done both have the ce sound: so it's not just a similar sound, it would have to be dance, prance, chance?
Shooting for the stars, a somewhat common statement in American English. But I wasn't fond of it. Would it be considered a cliché if a culture uses the words "shoot for the star", an American way of saying go for the gusto.
Grace is a beautiful face lit by the sun, Eros sings to gain his place with this lady, No?
In flesh may be better, don't we say things like days of fun? Toooooo many Flesh words anyway I know
Some is chasing you; ever hear the expression someone is chasing their own tail; Since it's a race, there's a chase and I tried to use irony here; the point also that in the marathon of life we sometimes loose or want to run away from ourselves.
Flesh is tired at times in the race, and resists, and the mind defied, Too tired to hide from self
The season of satan's storm, call "that season" the one mention just above.
How would He disposess "that" season, by His grace.
satan big or little "s", philosophical reason, I won't give satan the status of God. Big God little devil is my thesis.

Can I make simple sentences with imagery, lyricism, alliteration or assonance, with meter and rhyme? That's a challenge for me.

I wasn't fond of this write and that's why I posted it. And now I have many ideas to change it.  Thank you very much for your so in depth and thoughtful critique.  If there is anything I said that makes more sense to you, if you have a chane, please let me know. thanks so much. Of course, I will be rewriting this. Best Loretta

[billy]

a forgetmenot is a flower, forget me not girl; is a cliche used in a famous song and forget me is also a type of poem thats usually cliched. that said i see no reason why a cliche can't be used if a line warrants it's use. this sadly isn't the case. if you think about it forget me not is the same as remember me [which is often used in it's cliched form and made famous by people like christina rossetti; she did a poem called remember and on the the first line are her immortal words.
remember me when i am gone away
Gone far away into the silent yada, yada tada.
learning not to use cliche will usually make you a better writer of poetry, if nothing else, you'll be original. if you were buying a pair of prad shoes, would you prefer original real prada or copies?

the line with road in it; you ask;

How about truth lay, "along the road we'll bleed yes that helps but it only helps the diction. it does nothing to remove the duplicate [road] use lane path or other word for road. or keep it and change the first roads.

[tectak]

nMarathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness, Why this obtuse use of "incline"? Why not use a clearly intended word. Do you mean a hill, an intention, an instruction? Surely, as an instruction, you are saying " steer the race to..." ; if a hill "Race up the hill to love and happiness..."; if an intention " Inclined to race to love and gratefulness...". Whatever...it is convoluted english and I am still unsure what you are trying to say. If you can explain...then I will say to you, "Then put it in the poem"
that rugged roads not end in emptiness. Pedantically, plural roads end not in emptiness. Still clunky

Some run the race with body, heart and soul, repeat of race.
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. You make the metaphor paramount...but for how long?

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need, Is this from another poem? What is it doing in your metaphor. It is a glottal stop disconnect....and statementally is bald. I think...yes, so what?
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed. What has this line got to do with the line above apart from the fascile rhyme of need and bleed. Why would you, we or the path bleed? It is also wrongly emphasised and half a foot to long.You could get back in to your own metaphor something like this:
"We stop to taste the fruit, eat what we need,
forgetting in our haste to plant new seed"

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance. YES! Clarity! Oh Joy!

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars. Do "we (xx xx xx xxx, xx xx) hide scars" or is the garden scarred?

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine, Still hate the pretentiously arcane use of Behold! when astounded to find grapes on a vine. Wow.
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine. Still have no idea what virgin wine is. Undrunk? Once drunk, virgins do tend to scarcity.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. Oh  come on Loretta. Quite apart fom the jumping around of metaphorical musings (what happened to the race?)  do you mean Eros' songs? or " a song of Eros, lures a  love embrace"

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding Horrible hackneyed cliche
our days of life are racing to eroding. Horrible synax ending up in Gerund Cul de Sac to create an easy ing- ing rhyme. Have you any idea how many words end in ing..and you chose eroding?? even "...racing BUT eroding" would be better but just as
purposeless. You are in danger of itty-bitty thinking.
Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found. What means this? How the hell did we get here?Why is are capitalised? Do you want to italicise it for emphasis? Then just type sq. brackets i sq.brackets followed by [/i]. I have to type it out otherwise it will italicise!

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried. AAaarRRGGGH! FRIED? FRIED? Semicolons, tense shifts, meaningless. Drop this stanza and tell me the poem would suffer.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, 5
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.5
But God may come to shatter that season,5 but emphases compromised
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.5 1/2 ...but that, and this closing stanza, is another story

hi Loretta
I would not spend any time on critting this if it were not  for your  willingness to listen and my arrogance in assuming you would listen to me
It wanders  about. It is not a marathon...it is orienteering. Your thoughts are burgeoning. Keep on route, keep on message.
Best,
tectak

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

[LorettaYoung]

nMarathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness, Why this obtuse use of "incline"? Why not use a clearly intended word. Do you mean a hill, an intention, an instruction? Surely, as an instruction, you are saying " steer the race to..." ; if a hill "Race up the hill to love and happiness..."; if an intention " Inclined to race to love and gratefulness...". Whatever...it is convoluted english and I am still unsure what you are trying to say. If you can explain...then I will say to you, "Then put it in the poem"
that rugged roads not end in emptiness. Pedantically, plural roads end not in emptiness. Still clunky

Some run the race with body, heart and soul, repeat of race.
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. You make the metaphor paramount...but for how long?

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need, Is this from another poem? What is it doing in your metaphor. It is a glottal stop disconnect....and statementally is bald. I think...yes, so what?
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed. What has this line got to do with the line above apart from the fascile rhyme of need and bleed. Why would you, we or the path bleed? It is also wrongly emphasised and half a foot to long.You could get back in to your own metaphor something like this:
"We stop to taste the fruit, eat what we need,
forgetting in our haste to plant new seed"

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance. YES! Clarity! Oh Joy!

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars. Do "we (xx xx xx xxx, xx xx) hide scars" or is the garden scarred?

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine, Still hate the pretentiously arcane use of Behold! when astounded to find grapes on a vine. Wow.
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine. Still have no idea what virgin wine is. Undrunk? Once drunk, virgins do tend to scarcity.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. Oh  come on Loretta. Quite apart fom the jumping around of metaphorical musings (what happened to the race?)  do you mean Eros' songs? or " a song of Eros, lures a  love embrace"

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding Horrible hackneyed cliche
our days of life are racing to eroding. Horrible synax ending up in Gerund Cul de Sac to create an easy ing- ing rhyme. Have you any idea how many words end in ing..and you chose eroding?? even "...racing BUT eroding" would be better but just as
purposeless. You are in danger of itty-bitty thinking.
Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found. What means this? How the hell did we get here?Why is are capitalised? Do you want to italicise it for emphasis? Then just type sq. brackets i sq.brackets followed by [/i]. I have to type it out otherwise it will italicise!

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried. AAaarRRGGGH! FRIED? FRIED? Semicolons, tense shifts, meaningless. Drop this stanza and tell me the poem would suffer.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, 5
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.5
But God may come to shatter that season,5 but emphases compromised
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.5 1/2 ...but that, and this closing stanza, is another story

hi Loretta
I would not spend any time on critting this if it were not  for your  willingness to listen and my arrogance in assuming you would listen to me
It wanders  about. It is not a marathon...it is orienteering. Your thoughts are burgeoning. Keep on route, keep on message.
Best,
tectak

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

[tectak]

nMarathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness, Why this obtuse use of "incline"? Why not use a clearly intended word. Do you mean a hill, an intention, an instruction? Surely, as an instruction, you are saying " steer the race to..." ; if a hill "Race up the hill to love and happiness..."; if an intention " Inclined to race to love and gratefulness...". Whatever...it is convoluted english and I am still unsure what you are trying to say. If you can explain...then I will say to you, "Then put it in the poem"
that rugged roads not end in emptiness. Pedantically, plural roads end not in emptiness. Still clunky

Some run the race with body, heart and soul, repeat of race.
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. You make the metaphor paramount...but for how long?

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need, Is this from another poem? What is it doing in your metaphor. It is a glottal stop disconnect....and statementally is bald. I think...yes, so what?
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed. What has this line got to do with the line above apart from the fascile rhyme of need and bleed. Why would you, we or the path bleed? It is also wrongly emphasised and half a foot to long.You could get back in to your own metaphor something like this:
"We stop to taste the fruit, eat what we need,
forgetting in our haste to plant new seed"

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance. YES! Clarity! Oh Joy!

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars. Do "we (xx xx xx xxx, xx xx) hide scars" or is the garden scarred?

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine, Still hate the pretentiously arcane use of Behold! when astounded to find grapes on a vine. Wow.
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine. Still have no idea what virgin wine is. Undrunk? Once drunk, virgins do tend to scarcity.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. Oh  come on Loretta. Quite apart fom the jumping around of metaphorical musings (what happened to the race?)  do you mean Eros' songs? or " a song of Eros, lures a  love embrace"

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding Horrible hackneyed cliche
our days of life are racing to eroding. Horrible synax ending up in Gerund Cul de Sac to create an easy ing- ing rhyme. Have you any idea how many words end in ing..and you chose eroding?? even "...racing BUT eroding" would be better but just as
purposeless. You are in danger of itty-bitty thinking.
Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found. What means this? How the hell did we get here?Why is are capitalised? Do you want to italicise it for emphasis? Then just type sq. brackets i sq.brackets followed by [/i]. I have to type it out otherwise it will italicise!

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried. AAaarRRGGGH! FRIED? FRIED? Semicolons, tense shifts, meaningless. Drop this stanza and tell me the poem would suffer.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, 5
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.5
But God may come to shatter that season,5 but emphases compromised
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.5 1/2 ...but that, and this closing stanza, is another story

hi Loretta
I would not spend any time on critting this if it were not  for your  willingness to listen and my arrogance in assuming you would listen to me
It wanders  about. It is not a marathon...it is orienteering. Your thoughts are burgeoning. Keep on route, keep on message.
Best,
tectak

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

What was that you said?

[LorettaYoung]

nMarathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness, Why this obtuse use of "incline"? Why not use a clearly intended word. Do you mean a hill, an intention, an instruction? Surely, as an instruction, you are saying " steer the race to..." ; if a hill "Race up the hill to love and happiness..."; if an intention " Inclined to race to love and gratefulness...". Whatever...it is convoluted english and I am still unsure what you are trying to say. If you can explain...then I will say to you, "Then put it in the poem"
that rugged roads not end in emptiness. Pedantically, plural roads end not in emptiness. Still clunky

Some run the race with body, heart and soul, repeat of race.
where spirit and mere chance define the goal. You make the metaphor paramount...but for how long?

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need, Is this from another poem? What is it doing in your metaphor. It is a glottal stop disconnect....and statementally is bald. I think...yes, so what?
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed. What has this line got to do with the line above apart from the fascile rhyme of need and bleed. Why would you, we or the path bleed? It is also wrongly emphasised and half a foot to long.You could get back in to your own metaphor something like this:
"We stop to taste the fruit, eat what we need,
forgetting in our haste to plant new seed"

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance. YES! Clarity! Oh Joy!

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars. Do "we (xx xx xx xxx, xx xx) hide scars" or is the garden scarred?

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine, Still hate the pretentiously arcane use of Behold! when astounded to find grapes on a vine. Wow.
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine. Still have no idea what virgin wine is. Undrunk? Once drunk, virgins do tend to scarcity.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. Oh  come on Loretta. Quite apart fom the jumping around of metaphorical musings (what happened to the race?)  do you mean Eros' songs? or " a song of Eros, lures a  love embrace"

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding Horrible hackneyed cliche
our days of life are racing to eroding. Horrible synax ending up in Gerund Cul de Sac to create an easy ing- ing rhyme. Have you any idea how many words end in ing..and you chose eroding?? even "...racing BUT eroding" would be better but just as
purposeless. You are in danger of itty-bitty thinking.
Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found. What means this? How the hell did we get here?Why is are capitalised? Do you want to italicise it for emphasis? Then just type sq. brackets i sq.brackets followed by [/i]. I have to type it out otherwise it will italicise!

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried. AAaarRRGGGH! FRIED? FRIED? Semicolons, tense shifts, meaningless. Drop this stanza and tell me the poem would suffer.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path, 5
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.5
But God may come to shatter that season,5 but emphases compromised
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.5 1/2 ...but that, and this closing stanza, is another story

hi Loretta
I would not spend any time on critting this if it were not  for your  willingness to listen and my arrogance in assuming you would listen to me
It wanders  about. It is not a marathon...it is orienteering. Your thoughts are burgeoning. Keep on route, keep on message.
Best,
tectak

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

I have been answering you for four hours, twice my answers disappeared; if it happens again I'm going to......
I though I applied many of your suggestions; I have done much more, now lost, will try once again. How could I not listen to you?

L1-Approach the race with love and gratefulness - assuming the race include other things I used the word incline as lean to these things suggesting there ARE others. Better because you are now instructing the runners, NOT the race.
l2-thinking
L3-Some run the race with body, heart and soul
L4-where spirit and mere chance affect the goal
L5-While tasting fruits we harvest what we need. The fruits of life, bitter and sweet, along the road, we harvest and reap and gather our needs while we are tasting and harvesting.
L6-truth is somewhere along the road we'll bleed. Although we gather fruits and need; still there is loss and wound and trouble, BLEED is a metaphor for that trouble. We taste the fruit and harvest what we need. Pricked by the thorn, whilst seeking truth we bleed.......or something not involving bleeding a bleedin' road
L7-In paper pants we waddle, then we dance
L8-then speed to our next date seeking romance. YES
L9-We climb tall mountains striving for the stars YES. Shoot for the stars was far more metaphorically acceptable during the space race than "climb a mountain AND then shoot at a star"
L10-and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars. Seductive gardens hide scars. No implication here that the strollee
is hiding scars, yet, seduction certainly can.[b] Aha! You are wrong...this is part of the problem of clarity. What you write is " We climb and we stroll." Note that the subject is "we". So, whatever else you write will be thrown back on your subject unless you punctuate to clarity. You have written " We climb and stroll hiding scars". Simplicity. " We climb tall mountains striving for the stars and stroll, seduced by gardens hiding scars." Can you see the subtle difference?
L11-Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine. I think behold is the best word, observe kind of weal? What's the
big problem with Behold??????When did you last hear or say "behold" in ANY contemporary setting? What is wrong with "see", or "look at"? Striving to be poetic is not poetic...and I still do not know what "observe kind of weal" means.
L12-that to our lips tastes sweet as fresh pressed wine
L13-The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
L14-Which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. This line goes with the line above. Yes, but it makes NO sense gramatically. Which Eros songs ?
" The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
makes Eros sing; his lure to love's embrace."His songs lure to embrace the face of grace. Also, the marathon is long.....does include a rest, the quest for pleasure, beauty, meaning.
L15-Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding: Eternal and time to my mind is not itty bitty but a deep subject
L16-our days of life are racing to eroding. Racing is to something, and time takes it toll to eroding. You cannot " go to eroding" but you could say "our days of life are racing whilst/yet/but/though/and eroding." You simply cannot race "to" a verb in any meaningfull way. I need to go to sleeping.
L17-Someone is chasing you, you look around;
L18-You are that shadow, longing to be found.  A psychological concept in metaphor that we loose our self sometimes in life; a reason people seek therapy, the word chase is part of a race; A person casts a shadow behind themselves; this is symbolism that the shadow is the self behind longing to be found.  Too complicated? Then I will delete it. My psy. and Phil. training does influence my perceptions, and I see poetry.  Too abstract or obtuse? Agreed. It is a concept in a metaphor in a concept. Ditch it and rescue it later for another poem.
or can you see the point?
L19-Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide
L20-when mental stress persists; my body fried.  Escape from self again: aren't there folks who wish to run away from things like compulsion, anger, evil. Fried is common American slang for exhausted; and I do like speaking to common people. However, you may consider these topics too obtuse or abstract, although not in my mind with a background of psy. and phil. I will omit these lines if you think they do not apply or speak to my philosophy. I am very much afraid that your background may be the problem in that psychology and philisophy fight. Dale (erthona) would have much to say on this. Are you there, dale?
Could I say "my body cried", ironically speaking of an exhausted body.
Escaping self, I ponder where to turn?
Mental stress persists and I feel my body burn. Your poem. Keep it simple, keep it real


L21-Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path
L22-a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
L23-But God may come to shatter that season (don't know what's wrong with but), could say Still or Yet Do not but a sententence start. It is not wise, but may be art
L24-by grace, our love and gratefulness the reason - I'm not preaching, relating love and gratefulness to the first line. I would write on all perspectives, with the least judgment possible.

Thanks again tectak for this very educational crit. Let me know if you think I should delete L17-20, if I have made progress without compromise. Best Loretta

[tectak]

[/b][/b]

I have been answering you for four hours, twice my answers disappeared; if it happens again I'm going to......
I though I applied many of your suggestions; I have done much more, now lost, will try once again. How could I not listen to you?

L1-Approach the race with love and gratefulness - assuming the race include other things I used the word incline as lean to these things suggesting there ARE others.
l2-thinking
L3-Some run the race with body, heart and soul
L4-where spirit and mere chance affect the goal
L5-While tasting fruits we harvest what we need. The fruits of life, bitter and sweet, along the road, we harvest and reap and gather our needs while we are tasting and harvesting.
L6-truth is somewhere along the road we'll bleed. Although we gather fruits and need; still there is loss and wound and trouble, BLEED is a metaphor for that trouble.
L7-In paper pants we waddle, then we dance
L8-then speed to our next date seeking romance.
L9-We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
L10-and stroll seductive gardens thriving with scars. I assume, hope to, that its gardens thriving with scars
L11-Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine. I think behold is the best word, observe kind of weal? What's the
big problem with Behold??????
L12-that to our lips tastes sweet as fresh pressed wine
L13-The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
L14-Which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. This line goes with the line above. His songs lure to embrace the face of grace. Also, the marathon is long.....does include a rest, the quest for pleasure, beauty, meaning.
L15-Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding: Eternal and time to my mind is not itty bitty but a deep subject
L16-our days of life are racing to eroding. Racing is to something, and time takes it toll to eroding.
L17-Someone is chasing you, you look around;
L18-You are that shadow, longing to be found.  A psychological concept in metaphor that we loose our self sometimes in life; a reason people seek therapy, the word chase is part of a race; A person casts a shadow behind themselves; this is symbolism that the shadow is the self behind longing to be found.  Too complicated? Then I will delete it. My psy. and Phil. training does influence my perceptions, and I see poetry.  Too abstract or obtuse?
or can you see the point?
L19-Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide
L20-when mental stress persists; my body fried.  Escape from self again: aren't there folks who wish to run away from things like compulsion, anger, evil. Fried is common American slang for exhausted; and I do like speaking to common people. However, you may consider these topics too obtuse or abstract, although not in my mind with a background of psy. and phil. I will omit these lines if you think they do not apply or speak to my philosophy.
Could I say "my body cried", ironically speaking of an exhausted body.
L21-Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path
L22-a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
L23-But God may come to shatter that season (don't know what's wrong with but), could say Still or Yet
L24-by grace, our love and gratefulness the reason - I'm not preaching, relating love and gratefulness to the first line. I would write on all perspectives, with the least judgment possible.

Thanks again tectak for this very educational crit. Let me know if you think I should delete L17-20, if I have made progress without compromise. Best Loretta

Hi loretta,
I know I make light of things but please think no less of me if I ask...is english your first language? Your word use is often just plain wrong. Even in your response above you say things like "bleed is a metaphor for that trouble"...bleed is NOT a noun...except in unusual circumstances and not here. You mean "bleeding is a metaphor for trouble" or "blood is a metaphor for trouble". You say "I assume, hope to, that its gardens thriving with scars" but I cannot get the sense out of "thriving with scars". Do you mean "thriving THOUGH scarred". You say "when mental stress persists; my body fried.", but that is two tenses. Do you mean "when mental stress persists, my body fries"? You say "I think behold is the best word, observe kind of weal?" What on earth do you mean? "Observe kind of weal"? It is all just too muddled.
I am trying to feel your thinking but find it irksome and difficult. Do you READ your work OUT LOUD to hear what you have written? Reading in your head will not work...your mind corrects errors faster than you think them and covers them up.
You do write with a poetic lean (sop to your first line )but it seems so personal that you cannot clarify it without destroying whatever it is that leads your thoughts. If you keep trying so will I.
So will we all.

Behold,
tectak.

[LorettaYoung]

I have been answering you for four hours, twice my answers disappeared; if it happens again I'm going to......
I though I applied many of your suggestions; I have done much more, now lost, will try once again. How could I not listen to you?

L1-Approach the race with love and gratefulness - assuming the race include other things I used the word incline as lean to these things suggesting there ARE others.
l2-thinking
L3-Some run the race with body, heart and soul
L4-where spirit and mere chance affect the goal
L5-While tasting fruits we harvest what we need. The fruits of life, bitter and sweet, along the road, we harvest and reap and gather our needs while we are tasting and harvesting.
L6-truth is somewhere along the road we'll bleed. Although we gather fruits and need; still there is loss and wound and trouble, BLEED is a metaphor for that trouble.
L7-In paper pants we waddle, then we dance
L8-then speed to our next date seeking romance.
L9-We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
L10-and stroll seductive gardens thriving with scars. I assume, hope to, that its gardens thriving with scars
L11-Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine. I think behold is the best word, observe kind of weal? What's the
big problem with Behold??????
L12-that to our lips tastes sweet as fresh pressed wine
L13-The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
L14-Which Eros songs of love lure to embrace. This line goes with the line above. His songs lure to embrace the face of grace. Also, the marathon is long.....does include a rest, the quest for pleasure, beauty, meaning.
L15-Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding: Eternal and time to my mind is not itty bitty but a deep subject
L16-our days of life are racing to eroding. Racing is to something, and time takes it toll to eroding.
L17-Someone is chasing you, you look around;
L18-You are that shadow, longing to be found.  A psychological concept in metaphor that we loose our self sometimes in life; a reason people seek therapy, the word chase is part of a race; A person casts a shadow behind themselves; this is symbolism that the shadow is the self behind longing to be found.  Too complicated? Then I will delete it. My psy. and Phil. training does influence my perceptions, and I see poetry.  Too abstract or obtuse?
or can you see the point?
L19-Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide
L20-when mental stress persists; my body fried.  Escape from self again: aren't there folks who wish to run away from things like compulsion, anger, evil. Fried is common American slang for exhausted; and I do like speaking to common people. However, you may consider these topics too obtuse or abstract, although not in my mind with a background of psy. and phil. I will omit these lines if you think they do not apply or speak to my philosophy.
Could I say "my body cried", ironically speaking of an exhausted body.
L21-Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path
L22-a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
L23-But God may come to shatter that season (don't know what's wrong with but), could say Still or Yet
L24-by grace, our love and gratefulness the reason - I'm not preaching, relating love and gratefulness to the first line. I would write on all perspectives, with the least judgment possible.

Thanks again tectak for this very educational crit. Let me know if you think I should delete L17-20, if I have made progress without compromise. Best Loretta

Hi loretta,
I know I make light of things but please think no less of me if I ask...is english your first language? Your word use is often just plain wrong. Even in your response above you say things like "bleed is a metaphor for that trouble"...bleed is NOT a noun...except in unusual circumstances and not here. You mean "bleeding is a metaphor for trouble" or "blood is a metaphor for trouble". You say "I assume, hope to, that its gardens thriving with scars" but I cannot get the sense out of "thriving with scars". Do you mean "thriving THOUGH scarred". You say "when mental stress persists; my body fried.", but that is two tenses. Do you mean "when mental stress persists, my body fries"? You say "I think behold is the best word, observe kind of weal?" What on earth do you mean? "Observe kind of weal"? It is all just too muddled.
I am trying to feel your thinking but find it irksome and difficult. Do you READ your work OUT LOUD to hear what you have written? Reading in your head will not work...your mind corrects errors faster than you think them and covers them up.
You do write with a poetic lean (sop to your first line )but it seems so personal that you cannot clarify it without destroying whatever it is that leads your thoughts. If you keep trying so will I.
So will we all.

Behold,
tectak.

Hi Tectak: Yes, English first language (BUT not proper English, but do you understand it. Yes, English is my first language; scored very high on SAT;s: but not my area of study. I can write a proper letter, or research paper; but that's not what I am trying to do. I can see where the tenses don't match. However, if one fall off a mountain while on a marathon he will bleed, for sure. Bleed to death, from internal and external pain physically and emotionally.I
know I have bled and will bleed somewhere sometime along the road; everyone does, I haven't focused much on nouns and verbs but not loosing lyricism, imagery, symbolism; even if the English is not perfect; does it inhibit
the readability, the point and rhythm, perhaps some symbolism.

I did not mean to put the word striving in there; definitely the wrong word in every way. I would say, "and stroll seductive gardens of lurking scars", or secret scars, or gardens hiding scars, But, it throws off meter and sound and flow to add of to make it a proper sentence when I think seductive anything can hold lurking scars and can be
read as that. Why would someone hide scars strolling a garden; makes no senses, but A seduction has hidden scars. That's the point without sacrificing meter or flow.-

Yes persists and fried are two tenses: hence the semicolon; two things occur; one, persists, implies continuance. While fried means already done. A fried body and persisting stress to deal with; how can I hide. it makes the point to me; maintains the flow, meter, rhyme. If I wrote all perfect sentences I would feel like I was writing a story. Perhaps I can't do it all now.

Observe weak I meant. I have some dramatic tendencies. You do as well, "I am Hurricane", very dramatic, But you have been doing this for how many years? And me, maybe 16 months.

I have read it aloud, so has my daughter who studied literature and poetry; she understood every point; as well as did other intelligent people. 

The poem was a trainwreck; you helped me make it much better, I think, although I don't expect perfection in all things to anywhere near your or the other accomplished and learned poets here. Shall I delete lines 17-20. Did my psy. background add any interest in the loss of self area.  Is your shadow not a part of your self.

All in all am doing my best, to be honest, and I agree that I am incompetent in many areas. I do hope it is readable, at least a bit lyrical, poetic, flowing, of interest at this point. I will think about tenses and incorporating them into the meter and rhyme more efficiently. And I am VERY grateful for all you input and suggestions. Best Loretta

[tectak]

Marathon- edit 2 (tectak, ellijam, Bena, billy)

Approach the race with love and gratitude,'
that what you reap rests right on attitude. "for what you reap is sown by attitude" If that is what you mean.
Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
and know clear choice and chance affect the goal. knowing clear choice and chance affect the goal, or it is just too andy. I am now under your spell and am unsure what sport I am in...running or football.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need;
truth is some place along the path we'll bleed. I give up....see end
Then gather all your strength to sprint anew, Then is a filler word. Everything that follows is "then". It is lazy. Try something like " Forgather all your strength...." or " Best gather all your strength..."
so trails and winding winds will brighten you. "so" is a weak and conditional filler word which is just wrong as used here. Lose it. Stick an adjective in front of "trails" to enrich the image...steep, wild etc. Now, "winding"? Is that your best shot. It can be pronounced two ways but either way makes little sense. Dreadfully simplistic and forced rhyme. Try not rhyming with the previous line. Write the second line of the couplet then make the previous line rhyme with it. It is your poem, you are in charge.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.
We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens that screen scars. Much better put but I still do not know what is, or who is, or why the scars...but of course...silly me...scars RHYMES with stars. You, Loretta, seek meaning after rhyming...and you will not admit it. Let me assure you, we have ALL done it. I would bet that if you wrote "We climb our ( all mountains are tall, that is why they are called mountains) mountains striving for the stars and pass seductive gardens in our cars" you would argue deep metaphorical intent. It does not work here...any more than having a garden in your car would; but you would say that, wouldn't you?

Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips tastes sweet like fresh pressed wine. Again, I am obliged to comment...yes, I see the grapes on the grape vine but my flabber is not gasted to discover that of all things they taste like sweet wine. So what?
The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros' songs of love lure to embrace. I still do not know where Eros fits in to all of this...he seems to have made a surprise guest appearance, sang a song then buggered off again.

Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding,
our days of life are racing to eroding. No. I am going to  sleeping
Escape from self, we think, and try to run, "Escape from self, we think..." so you are not sure?
but time speaks to our legs, that can't be done. Loretta, thy legs be done, on earth as they are in heaven. Nonsense. Unless you can make this and the previous stanza salient, I would just drop them both

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path.
A bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
Yet God may come to shatter that season, Still short. "with" not "by" on next line. No comma.
by grace, our love and gratitude the reason. The rhyme has forced this inversion. It reads very awkwardly.
" God brings the season to a thankful close;
we call it grace, but in life's race, who knows?" Your poem but surely better to end with a finishing line than a weather report?


Betta Loretta, but still a bit of a marathon. You use very easy rhymes and force the poem to accomodate them. I believe that this is the main reason your couplets seem nonsensical and isolated.
tectak

One more try.
"....truth is somewhere along the path; we'll bleed"
"...truth is somewhere; along the path we'll bleed"
but NOT:
"...truth is somewhere along the path we'll bleed"

Finally, if you find it worthwhile to read/present your poetry to curry opinion...do not read it to friends or relatives (especially intelligent daughters) because they will all say " Yes, dear, that's very  nice...."
Read it in the bus to standing passengers, read it to the Big Issue seller, read it through the window of the motorist stuck in a traffic jam....or post it here




Marathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness,
that rugged roads not end in emptiness.

Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need,
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars.

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine,
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace.

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding
our days of life are racing to eroding.

Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found.

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come to shatter that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

[LorettaYoung]

Marathon- edit 2 (tectak, ellijam, Bena, billy)

Approach the race with love and gratitude,'
that what you reap rests right on attitude. "for what you reap is sown by attitude" If that is what you mean.
Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
and know clear choice and chance affect the goal. knowing clear choice and chance affect the goal, or it is just too andy. I am now under your spell and am unsure what sport I am in...running or football.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need;
truth is some place along the path we'll bleed. I give up....see end
Then gather all your strength to sprint anew, Then is a filler word. Everything that follows is "then". It is lazy. Try something like " Forgather all your strength...." or " Best gather all your strength..."
so trails and winding winds will brighten you. "so" is a weak and conditional filler word which is just wrong as used here. Lose it. Stick an adjective in front of "trails" to enrich the image...steep, wild etc. Now, "winding"? Is that your best shot. It can be pronounced two ways but either way makes little sense. Dreadfully simplistic and forced rhyme. Try not rhyming with the previous line. Write the second line of the couplet then make the previous line rhyme with it. It is your poem, you are in charge.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.
We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens that screen scars. Much better put but I still do not know what is, or who is, or why the scars...but of course...silly me...scars RHYMES with stars. You, Loretta, seek meaning after rhyming...and you will not admit it. Let me assure you, we have ALL done it. I would bet that if you wrote "We climb our ( all mountains are tall, that is why they are called mountains) mountains striving for the stars and pass seductive gardens in our cars" you would argue deep metaphorical intent. It does not work here...any more than having a garden in your car would; but you would say that, wouldn't you?

Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips tastes sweet like fresh pressed wine. Again, I am obliged to comment...yes, I see the grapes on the grape vine but my flabber is not gasted to discover that of all things they taste like sweet wine. So what?
The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros' songs of love lure to embrace. I still do not know where Eros fits in to all of this...he seems to have made a surprise guest appearance, sang a song then buggered off again.

Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding,
our days of life are racing to eroding. No. I am going to  sleeping
Escape from self, we think, and try to run, "Escape from self, we think..." so you are not sure?
but time speaks to our legs, that can't be done. Loretta, thy legs be done, on earth as they are in heaven. Nonsense. Unless you can make this and the previous stanza salient, I would just drop them both

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path.
A bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
Yet God may come to shatter that season, Still short. "with" not "by" on next line. No comma.
by grace, our love and gratitude the reason. The rhyme has forced this inversion. It reads very awkwardly.
" God brings the season to a thankful close;
we call it grace, but in life's race, who knows?" Your poem but surely better to end with a finishing line than a weather report?


Betta Loretta, but still a bit of a marathon. You use very easy rhymes and force the poem to accomodate them. I believe that this is the main reason your couplets seem nonsensical and isolated.
tectak

One more try.
"....truth is somewhere along the path; we'll bleed"
"...truth is somewhere; along the path we'll bleed"
but NOT:
"...truth is somewhere along the path we'll bleed"

Finally, if you find it worthwhile to read/present your poetry to curry opinion...do not read it to friends or relatives (especially intelligent daughters) because they will all say " Yes, dear, that's very  nice...."
Read it in the bus to standing passengers, read it to the Big Issue seller, read it through the window of the motorist stuck in a traffic jam....or post it here

Hi Tectak: The essence of the marathon is at first a suggestion of how to race; then going along finding the good and bad. I though "reap rest right" to have some alliteration and make the point, as the winds of life wind. You objected to "virgine", thought fresh pressed had some sound; but you find the point "so what"; am just trying to show some pleasure along the road, failing at doing it poetically obviously. Eros is the God of love; suggesting finding it, again not obviously poetic. Time speaks to my leg, they won't run; getting late in the marathon and running is now hard. Nex to last line "short"? It has 10 syllables.

It occurs to me tectak that each of your crits focuses on a different section of a line in many cases. This makes me feel that in order to be better it must be written by a better writer, or later, if I get better. "Betta" is good, thanks. I will make the changes on edit 2 and think about a whole new different approach later.  The daughter feels free to criticize and has.  Many thanks for much input, help and time. Best Loretta


Marathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness,
that rugged roads not end in emptiness.

Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need,
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars.

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine,
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace.

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding
our days of life are racing to eroding.

Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found.

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come to shatter that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

[tectak]

Marathon- edit 2 (tectak, ellijam, Bena, billy)

Approach the race with love and gratitude,'
that what you reap rests right on attitude. "for what you reap is sown by attitude" If that is what you mean.
Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
and know clear choice and chance affect the goal. knowing clear choice and chance affect the goal, or it is just too andy. I am now under your spell and am unsure what sport I am in...running or football.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need;
truth is some place along the path we'll bleed. I give up....see end
Then gather all your strength to sprint anew, Then is a filler word. Everything that follows is "then". It is lazy. Try something like " Forgather all your strength...." or " Best gather all your strength..."
so trails and winding winds will brighten you. "so" is a weak and conditional filler word which is just wrong as used here. Lose it. Stick an adjective in front of "trails" to enrich the image...steep, wild etc. Now, "winding"? Is that your best shot. It can be pronounced two ways but either way makes little sense. Dreadfully simplistic and forced rhyme. Try not rhyming with the previous line. Write the second line of the couplet then make the previous line rhyme with it. It is your poem, you are in charge.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.
We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens that screen scars. Much better put but I still do not know what is, or who is, or why the scars...but of course...silly me...scars RHYMES with stars. You, Loretta, seek meaning after rhyming...and you will not admit it. Let me assure you, we have ALL done it. I would bet that if you wrote "We climb our ( all mountains are tall, that is why they are called mountains) mountains striving for the stars and pass seductive gardens in our cars" you would argue deep metaphorical intent. It does not work here...any more than having a garden in your car would; but you would say that, wouldn't you?

Observe the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips tastes sweet like fresh pressed wine. Again, I am obliged to comment...yes, I see the grapes on the grape vine but my flabber is not gasted to discover that of all things they taste like sweet wine. So what?
The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros' songs of love lure to embrace. I still do not know where Eros fits in to all of this...he seems to have made a surprise guest appearance, sang a song then buggered off again.

Keeping pace, the marathon unfolding,
our days of life are racing to eroding. No. I am going to  sleeping
Escape from self, we think, and try to run, "Escape from self, we think..." so you are not sure?
but time speaks to our legs, that can't be done. Loretta, thy legs be done, on earth as they are in heaven. Nonsense. Unless you can make this and the previous stanza salient, I would just drop them both

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path.
A bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
Yet God may come to shatter that season, Still short. "with" not "by" on next line. No comma.
by grace, our love and gratitude the reason. The rhyme has forced this inversion. It reads very awkwardly.
" God brings the season to a thankful close;
we call it grace, but in life's race, who knows?" Your poem but surely better to end with a finishing line than a weather report?


Betta Loretta, but still a bit of a marathon. You use very easy rhymes and force the poem to accomodate them. I believe that this is the main reason your couplets seem nonsensical and isolated.
tectak

One more try.
"....truth is somewhere along the path; we'll bleed"
"...truth is somewhere; along the path we'll bleed"
but NOT:
"...truth is somewhere along the path we'll bleed"

Finally, if you find it worthwhile to read/present your poetry to curry opinion...do not read it to friends or relatives (especially intelligent daughters) because they will all say " Yes, dear, that's very  nice...."
Read it in the bus to standing passengers, read it to the Big Issue seller, read it through the window of the motorist stuck in a traffic jam....or post it here

Hi Tectak: The essence of the marathon is at first a suggestion of how to race; then going along finding the good and bad. I though "reap rest right" to have some alliteration and make the point, as the winds of life wind. You objected to "virgine", thought fresh pressed had some sound; but you find the point "so what"; am just trying to show some pleasure along the road, failing at doing it poetically obviously. Eros is the God of love; suggesting finding it, again not obviously poetic. Time speaks to my leg, they won't run; getting late in the marathon and running is now hard. Nex to last line "short"? It has 10 syllables.

It occurs to me tectak that each of your crits focuses on a different section of a line in many cases. This makes me feel that in order to be better it must be written by a better writer, or later, if I get better. "Betta" is good, thanks. I will make the changes on edit 2 and think about a whole new different approach later.  The daughter feels free to criticize and has.  Many thanks for much input, help and time. Best Loretta


Marathon-edit 1 (ellijam, Bena, billy, tectak)

Incline the race to love and gratefulness,
that rugged roads not end in emptiness.

Some run the race with body, heart and soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.

While tasting fruits we harvest what we need,
though truth lay somewhere along the path we'll bleed.

In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date seeking romance.

We climb tall mountains striving for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens hiding scars.

Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine,
that to our lips tastes sweet like virgin wine.

The sunlight bright upon a face of grace,
which Eros songs of love lure to embrace.

Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding
our days of life are racing to eroding.

Someone is chasing you, you look around;
you Are that shadow, longing to be found.

Escape from self, the thought, how can I hide,
when mental stress persists; my body fried.

Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightening strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come to shatter that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.

Marathon
Incline they race to love and gratefulness
that rugged roads lean not to emptiness.
Though fervent flesh facilitates our need,
truth lay somewhere on the road we'll bleed.
Some run the race in flesh with heart ad soul,
where spirit and mere chance define the goal.
In paper pants we waddle, then we dance,
then speed to our next date in velvet pants.
We climb tall mountains shooting for the stars
and stroll seductive gardens full of scars.
Behold the ripened grapes upon the vine
that to our lips sweet tastes the virgin wine.
The morning sun shines on a face of grace
while Eros sings his songs to plead his place.
Keeping pace, eternal time unfolding,
our days of flesh are racing to eroding.
Someone is chasing you, you look around,
it's your shadow's desperation to be found.
Escape from self, the thought, where can I hide;
my flesh of stress resists, my mind declined.
Cold rain beats down a long and deep dark path,
a bolt of lightning strikes with satan's wrath.
But God may come, to dispossess that season,
by grace, our love and gratefulness a reason.
g.e.Kaye 3/18/15

[/b][/b]

Hi loretta,
as you edit the piece less obvious (or less important) problems appear. It does not help the editing process if  we change everything at once...and anyway, I only make suggestions to exemplify. It will always be your poem.
Regarding the penultimate line. It is in a rhyming couplet with the last line. Syllables are not everything, emphases matter, too. You are quite right, the  penultimate line has 10 syllables. Why is it, then short? Because its coupled line, the last, has 11 You do the same thing in the first couplet of the fifth stanza...again, the error is caused by not considering emphases.

"You objected to "virgine", thought fresh pressed had some sound; but you find the point "so what"; " I do not fully understand what this means but not to be churlish, I suspect that you are noting my objection to the technicality of the term "virgin wine", so you changed it to "fresh pressed wine" because it sounded good(?)...we call that grape juice and it tastes of grapes. What else would one expect grapes to taste of? Why mention it ? What is your point? Look, up there, is that grapes I see on that grape vine...if we taste a few I bet they taste of grapes. Anyway, where was I....oh yes, the sun is shining on the face of grace and here comes Eros... tralla tralla, I did it my way...oh , he's gone again. Ah well, back to unfolding time.
It is not as if you cannot summon up really enviable, imaginative imagery because you do...over and over again; but without linkage and connectivity you present a slide show, not a movie. You WILL get better, even on your own. Read more poetry. I would also suggest that you dive in to the Poetry Practice Exercise boards on this site. Meter is discussed in some depth as well as rhyme...and remember, cans does not rhyme with gins, even though both words end in  "ns". But that you knew, didn't you?

Best,
Tom

[LorettaYoung]

[/b][/b]

Hi loretta,
as you edit the piece less obvious (or less important) problems appear. It does not help the editing process if  we change everything at once...and anyway, I only make suggestions to exemplify. It will always be your poem.
Regarding the penultimate line. It is in a rhyming couplet with the last line. Syllables are not everything, emphases matter, too. You are quite right, the  penultimate line has 10 syllables. Why is it, then short? Because its coupled line, the last, has 11 You do the same thing in the first couplet of the fifth stanza...again, the error is caused by not considering emphases.

"You objected to "virgine", thought fresh pressed had some sound; but you find the point "so what"; " I do not fully understand what this means but not to be churlish, I suspect that you are noting my objection to the technicality of the term "virgin wine", so you changed it to "fresh pressed wine" because it sounded good(?)...we call that grape juice and it tastes of grapes. What else would one expect grapes to taste of? Why mention it ? What is your point? Look, up there, is that grapes I see on that grape vine...if we taste a few I bet they taste of grapes. Anyway, where was I....oh yes, the sun is shining on the face of grace and here comes Eros... tralla tralla, I did it my way...oh , he's gone again. Ah well, back to unfolding time.
It is not as if you cannot summon up really enviable, imaginative imagery because you do...over and over again; but without linkage and connectivity you present a slide show, not a movie. You WILL get better, even on your own. Read more poetry. I would also suggest that you dive in to the Poetry Practice Exercise boards on this site. Meter is discussed in some depth as well as rhyme...and remember, cans does not rhyme wi
Best,
Tom

Hi tectak, yes, now I see your point about syllables. The last line is so because its' the way it would be said; the inversion I don't find distracting; I wanted the last line to mirror the opening line. If the inversion and off syllable count is a problem I will have to rewrite the last two lines. I redid S2, L4, and change eroding (please tell me why you hate that word), and why life or a marathon can't unfold.

The WHOLE point of going through life is that we Observe (behold), taste, Love (Eros songs lure to embrace a face of grace).  Where did Eros come in, symbolism for love. Is life, the marathon unfolding what: obtuse, trite? Doesn't life unfold as you go along. I do see linkage between the good and bad throughout, we start how, we grow up, we observe (behold), TASTE, in this case sweet wine, are seduced by tempting gardens we may get hurt by  and, we love hopefully, Eros imagery for that I think, the marathon draws near end, hence age, a dark season, perhaps by grace lightened. Remember, I spoke to harvesting the fruits of life. I do see linkage, and some order, probably a better, more experience poet would do it with more precision. Something else to work on.

It is true; I rewrite a line to fit the couplets other rhyme; why; because I am slow, so I depend on the rhyme knowing it would take me time to rewrite both lines to fit. You suggested a good line in S1,L2 completely off the cuff. I can't do that. (Still like "what you reap rests right on": I hear alliteration and play on words, or I could have said what you reap rests on right attitude, a little less for contemplation that way. Anyway your line is good,

And, do you mean by easy rhyme, eg. "you"?  I have been reading the writes and crits in Novice, started the serious, reading I mean; very interesting.

Thank you again tectak
Best, slow Loretta