Under the Porch Light

[Caleb Murdock]

Youth is a strange thing, superficial and thin —
As fine and slight as snow, and quickly over;
Yet many a woman and most men
Will have it as their only lover.

Even I, who says it does not sway me,
Look in your aged eyes and love them so
Because I see the youngster waiting;
Though were youth to leave, I would not go.

And so we are children in our hearts,
And that is why our age seems so outrageous;
Beauty fades, but the composure in your face
Could in no way be more gorgeous.

Walk with me to the porch; let us sit
And be content, as old folks often are;
One old hand wrapped tightly in another,
And the porch light just another star.

Let us be content to watch the end settle
Around us three — one and one and two —
Like the soft shawl held to our necks — an end
That is not an end, but the start of something new.

===============

This is a somewhat old poem for me, but I would like to put it to bed now. I would like your reaction in three areas:

- The third line used to say, "Yet many a woman and most of men". I liked it, but most readers thought I was trying to flesh out the meter (I wasn't), so I removed "of". Does it sound good the way it stands now?

- Does the "outrageous/gorgeous" rhyme sound too strained or comical?

- Do you understand the "one and one and two" line?

I have other things to say about the poem, but I'll wait for some feedback first. One more thing: I wasn't trying to write a metrically perfect poem, so considerations about the meter aren't very important to me.

[ChristopherSea]

Caleb, Youth is wasted on the young. There is fine sentiment and devotion expressed herein.

-I think any of your choices for line 3 could work. I may have said, ‘yet many of women and most men’ just to pair the plurals.

-I never think strict rhymes are any better than slant ones. outrageous/gorgeous works. What comes more naturally to me is outrageous and ageless, providing more of a double rhyme. However, that would change the meaning of that line.

-I can’t do the math that you ask for on that line. You have 3 = 1 + 1 + 2. I did not get past the 3, when there are two of you, unless the porch light counts. Perhaps in another read or two.

Thanks for sharing your work./Chris

[Caleb Murdock]

Caleb, Youth is wasted on the young. There is fine sentiment and devotion expressed herein.

-I think any of your choices for line 3 could work. I may have said, ‘yet many of women and most men’ just to pair the plurals.

-I never think strict rhymes are any better than slant ones. outrageous/gorgeous works. What comes more naturally to me is outrageous and ageless, providing more of a double rhyme. However, that would change the meaning of that line.

-I can’t do the math that you ask for on that line. You have 3 = 1 + 1 + 2. I did not get past the 3, when there are two of you, unless the porch light counts. Perhaps in another read or two.

Thanks for sharing your work./Chris

Your comments give me hope that maybe this is a good poem after all.

"One and one and two" means each one separately, and then together (two) they form a third person, as if together they are more than just the two individuals that they are.

I might as well reveal what I think is the greatest flaw. I wrote this poem in my late 40's, and it is clear to me now that I was romanticizing old age. There is actually something macabre about the poem: What old folks would go to the porch, clutching each other's hands, and pull a shawl to their necks while they wait for death to overtake them? Only the most pathetic old folks! I am in my 60's, and it is clear to me now that most old people just live their lives as fully as they can until illness and death overtake them.

However, I hope I'm wrong because I think the poem has nice, musical language; I don't want this poem to be a throw-away because the meaning is unrealistic. Maybe if I do an intensive search, I'll find some old folks who feel the way I romanticized them in my 40's.

[ChristopherSea]

Caleb, Youth is wasted on the young. There is fine sentiment and devotion expressed herein.

-I think any of your choices for line 3 could work. I may have said, ‘yet many of women and most men’ just to pair the plurals.

-I never think strict rhymes are any better than slant ones. outrageous/gorgeous works. What comes more naturally to me is outrageous and ageless, providing more of a double rhyme. However, that would change the meaning of that line.

-I can’t do the math that you ask for on that line. You have 3 = 1 + 1 + 2. I did not get past the 3, when there are two of you, unless the porch light counts. Perhaps in another read or two.

Thanks for sharing your work./Chris

Your comments give me hope that maybe this is a good poem after all.

"One and one and two" means each one separately, and then together (two) they form a third person, as if together they are more than just the two individuals that they are.

I might as well reveal what I think is the greatest flaw. I wrote this poem in my late 40's, and it is clear to me now that I was romanticizing old age. There is actually something macabre about the poem: What old folks would go to the porch, clutching each other's hands, and pull a shawl to their necks while they wait for death to overtake them? Only the most pathetic old folks! I am in my 60's, and it is clear to me now that most old people just live their lives as fully as they can until illness and death overtake them.

However, I hope I'm wrong because I think the poem has nice, musical language; I don't want this poem to be a throw-away because the meaning is unrealistic. Maybe if I do an intensive search, I'll find some old folks who feel the way I romanticized them in my 40's.

I just had a thought: Why am I saying "Like the soft shawl ..."? I'll change that.

Oh, 60 is not old. I figured these folks were in their mid to late 80's and ready to pass to the other side.

[Caleb Murdock]

Oh, 60 is not old. I figured these folks were in their mid to late 80's and ready to pass to the other side.

Oh yes, I imagined them to be in their 80's when I wrote it. (I'm the one who's in my 60's.) But I still think I'm expressing false sentiments. My best friend in this town is 84, and she is still living an active life. She does talk about death from time to time, but she's certainly not waiting for it to come and get her. My point is, I question whether anyone is ever "ready" to pass to the other side. Maybe I just won't know until I get there.

If anyone disagrees with me and thinks the meaning of this poem is good, please say so.

[Caleb Murdock]

Although I value ChristopherSea's views, I was hoping to get more than one opinion. Does anyone else have some thoughts?

[ellajam]

Hi, Caleb, welcome.
I've been reading this and trying to figure out what bothers me. I like the idea, I take the 1+1+2=3 to mean me, you and us. I'm no meter expert, and it may not be important to you here, but I think the way it bounces around is what leaves me unsatisfied. I also might prefer a more intricate rhyme scheme, unless I'm missing something, which is very possible. Here are a few notes.

Youth is a strange thing, superficial and thin —
As fine and slight as snow, and quickly over; As you say below, not so quickly over in many ways.
Yet many a woman and most men
Will have it as their only lover. This is interesting.

Even I, who says it does not sway me,
Look in your aged eyes and love them so
Because I see the youngster waiting; Love this line, waiting is good.
Though were youth to leave, I would not go.

And so we are children in our hearts,
And that is why our age seems so outrageous; Not a fan of outrageous/gorgeous
Beauty fades, but the composure in your face
Could in no way be more gorgeous. I like beauty vs gorgeous.

Walk with me to the porch; let us sit
And be content, as old folks often are;
One old hand wrapped tightly in another,
And the porch light just another star. This line is great, the preceding three nothing new.

Let us be content to watch the end settle Love the end settle.
Around us three — one and one and two —
Like the soft shawl held to our necks — an end Sharing a shawl? meh
That is not an end, but the start of something new.

===============

This is a somewhat old poem for me, but I would like to put it to bed now. I would like your reaction in three areas:

- The third line used to say, "Yet many a woman and most of men". I liked it, but most readers thought I was trying to flesh out the meter (I wasn't), so I removed "of". Does it sound good the way it stands now?

- Does the "outrageous/gorgeous" rhyme sound too strained or comical?

- Do you understand the "one and one and two" line?

I have other things to say about the poem, but I'll wait for some feedback first. One more thing: I wasn't trying to write a metrically perfect poem, so considerations about the meter aren't very important to me.

I'd love to see you pull this one together, hope this helps.

[Caleb Murdock]

Thank you! I needed at least one more point of view.

Regarding outrageous/gorgeous, you helped me to see that I could find two words with -ly endings that rhyme and mean the same thing -- with the second one being lovely or comely. I'll definitely work on that.

Yeah, the shawl is part of the cliche that I'm so concerned about. "Like the tapestry held to our chins" -- that just came to me. I wonder if anyone ever calls their woven blankets tapestries. The dictionary says "a fabric consisting of a warp upon which colored threads are woven by hand to produce a design, often pictorial, used for wall hangings, furniture coverings, etc."

You don't seem concerned that the overall meaning of the poem might be cliched.

I didn't realize that the rhythm bounces around so much (you meant the rhythm, didn't you?); I'll take a look at that.

Thanks again!

[ellajam]

Thank you! I needed at least one more point of view.

Regarding outrageous/gorgeous, you helped me to see that I could find two words with -ly endings that rhyme and mean the same thing -- with the second one being lovely or comely. I'll definitely work on that.

Yeah, the shawl is part of the cliche that I'm so concerned about. "Like the tapestry held to our chins" -- that just came to me. I wonder if anyone ever calls their woven blankets tapestries. The dictionary says "a fabric consisting of a warp upon which colored threads are woven by hand to produce a design, often pictorial, used for wall hangings, furniture coverings, etc."

I don't think of tapestries for warmth.

You don't seem concerned that the overall meaning of the poem might be cliched.

That would be like saying love, hate, war, joy, despair are too cliched to write about. IMO it's how you write about them that makes the poem fresh or stale.

I didn't realize that the rhythm bounces around so much (you meant the rhythm, didn't you?); I'll take a look at that.

I meant meter, though again, I'm no expert. Something about the structure of the poem made me want it. It may just be me.

[Caleb Murdock]

I meant meter, though again, I'm no expert. Something about the structure of the poem made me want it. It may just be me.

Thank you for the additional thoughts.

I rarely write in strict meter. I tend to count syllables, and usually end up with 9 to 11 syllables per line. When scanned, my lines are sometimes pentameter and sometimes tetrameter. Basically, I listen to the rhythms in my head, and if I am satisfied with the sound, I don't tamper with it. When pressed, I just call my poetry "free verse", although it isn't really that. It's some kind of hybrid, I guess.

[71degrees]

Youth is a strange thing, superficial and thin —
As fine and slight as snow, and quickly over;
Yet many a woman and most men
Will have it as their only lover.

Even I, who says it does not sway me,
Look in your aged eyes and love them so
Because I see the youngster waiting;
Though were youth to leave, I would not go.

And so we are children in our hearts,
And that is why our age seems so outrageous;
Beauty fades, but the composure in your face
Could in no way be more gorgeous.

Walk with me to the porch; let us sit
And be content, as old folks often are;
One old hand wrapped tightly in another,
And the porch light just another star.

Let us be content to watch the end settle
Around us three — one and one and two —
Like the soft shawl held to our necks — an end
That is not an end, but the start of something new.

===============

This is a somewhat old poem for me, but I would like to put it to bed now. I would like your reaction in three areas:

- The third line used to say, "Yet many a woman and most of men". I liked it, but most readers thought I was trying to flesh out the meter (I wasn't), so I removed "of". Does it sound good the way it stands now?

- Does the "outrageous/gorgeous" rhyme sound too strained or comical?

- Do you understand the "one and one and two" line?

I have other things to say about the poem, but I'll wait for some feedback first. One more thing: I wasn't trying to write a metrically perfect poem, so considerations about the meter aren't very important to me.

"as old folks often are"....is too direct. The running commentary throughout the poem is distracting. Let the reader do a little work, will ya'? You seem to be going out your way to make sure everyone "understands" what this poem is about. Even your "before" comments about the poem are pretty leading (although I understand none of these comments would be there were I to open a book and find this poem, I also found these comments distracting). It's a nice poem. Let the reader enjoy it a little w/o all the commentary.

"Schmaltzy" w/o being too schmaltzy. Melancholy w/o being too melancholy. Nostalgic w/o being too nostalgic. Has a touch of all of these. I think you need to decide what you want it to be. A lesson poem? A look back poem? I wish I had done it differently poem? As it stands, it sounds a little like a Wish I wasn't old but I am poem. The last line is highly cliche' to me. Old vs Young Please Listen to Me I'm Old poems are a dime a dozen. What makes this one special? Give me something that a younger reader can REALLY take to heart.

[Caleb Murdock]

"as old folks often are"....is too direct. The running commentary throughout the poem is distracting. Let the reader do a little work, will ya'? You seem to be going out your way to make sure everyone "understands" what this poem is about. Even your "before" comments about the poem are pretty leading (although I understand none of these comments would be there were I to open a book and find this poem, I also found these comments distracting). It's a nice poem. Let the reader enjoy it a little w/o all the commentary.

"Schmaltzy" w/o being too schmaltzy. Melancholy w/o being too melancholy. Nostalgic w/o being too nostalgic. Has a touch of all of these. I think you need to decide what you want it to be. A lesson poem? A look back poem? I wish I had done it differently poem? As it stands, it sounds a little like a Wish I wasn't old but I am poem. The last line is highly cliche' to me. Old vs Young Please Listen to Me I'm Old poems are a dime a dozen. What makes this one special? Give me something that a younger reader can REALLY take to heart.

I appreciate your perspective. I may be rehashing things said by other poets, but I think everyone has a right to address the timeless issues (aging being one of them) in their own way.

I think the central theme of the poem is established in the lines that begin "And so we are children in our hearts". However, it's true that I didn't know what the poem would be when I started it. An opening line popped out, and then I just built on it as I went. At first I thought it would simply be a poem about the shallowness of youth, but then my fear of aging presented itself, and that set me on a different course. For what it's worth, I've been focussed on youth and aging all my life, even when I was young. I always saw youth as the key to happiness -- and in that way, I'm very American.

"Wish I wasn't old but I am" is as good as any other theme, don't you think?

As for my writing style, I don't try to hide my meaning from the reader. I don't want the reader to have to do any work. Also, I'm not sure what "commentary" you are talking about. I start out with philosophical meanderings about youth and age, and then end up with the physical act of going to the porch. I thought it was a good transition.

I'm not in any way dismissing what you said, but I'll have to think about it. I think the poem is too set for a big rewrite at this point. Every time I try a wholesale rewrite (on this or any poem), the poem always seems to get worse.

Oh, and one more thing: I wasn't writing this for young readers. But one of the things that a young reader can take from it is that people generally continue to feel young in their hearts as they age. I didn't know that when I was young.

[71degrees]

"as old folks often are"....is too direct. The running commentary throughout the poem is distracting. Let the reader do a little work, will ya'? You seem to be going out your way to make sure everyone "understands" what this poem is about. Even your "before" comments about the poem are pretty leading (although I understand none of these comments would be there were I to open a book and find this poem, I also found these comments distracting). It's a nice poem. Let the reader enjoy it a little w/o all the commentary.

"Schmaltzy" w/o being too schmaltzy. Melancholy w/o being too melancholy. Nostalgic w/o being too nostalgic. Has a touch of all of these. I think you need to decide what you want it to be. A lesson poem? A look back poem? I wish I had done it differently poem? As it stands, it sounds a little like a Wish I wasn't old but I am poem. The last line is highly cliche' to me. Old vs Young Please Listen to Me I'm Old poems are a dime a dozen. What makes this one special? Give me something that a younger reader can REALLY take to heart.

I appreciate your perspective. I may be rehashing things said by other poets, but I think everyone has a right to address the timeless issues (aging being one of them) in their own way.

I think the central theme of the poem is established in the lines that begin "And so we are children in our hearts". However, it's true that I didn't know what the poem would be when I started it. An opening line popped out, and then I just built on it as I went. At first I thought it would simply be a poem about the shallowness of youth, but then my fear of aging presented itself, and that set me on a different course. For what it's worth, I've been focussed on youth and aging all my life, even when I was young. I always saw youth as the key to happiness -- and in that way, I'm very American.

"Wish I wasn't old but I am" is as good as any other theme, don't you think?

As for my writing style, I don't try to hide my meaning from the reader. I don't want the reader to have to do any work. Also, I'm not sure what "commentary" you are talking about. I start out with philosophical meanderings about youth and age, and then end up with the physical act of going to the porch. I thought it was a good transition.

I'm not in any way dismissing what you said, but I'll have to think about it. I think the poem is too set for a big rewrite at this point. Every time I try a wholesale rewrite (on this or any poem), the poem always seems to get worse.

Oh, and one more thing: I wasn't writing this for young readers. But one of the things that a young reader can take from it is that people generally continue to feel young in their hearts as they age. I didn't know that when I was young.

I've written quite a few poems on youth and aging. I hope they're worth more than a dime each.

Don't get me wrong...I DO like your poem. But you've already told me you are "putting this one to bed" so I'm not sure what you really want. Listen to Jimmy Durante's version of "When You're Young at Heart" This is the best version out there for the message you are working toward that " people generally continue to feel young in their hearts as they age." I agree, until their bodies or their minds won't allow it any longer. And all poems are worth more than a dime. I was being facetious. Mine are so yours must be By the way, I'm almost 70...I'm not "old" either, but I have buried both parents and a sister. I know a thing or two about this subject, too.

[Caleb Murdock]

Don't get me wrong...I DO like your poem. But you've already told me you are "putting this one to bed" so I'm not sure what you really want. Listen to Jimmy Durante's version of "When You're Young at Heart" This is the best version out there for the message you are working toward that " people generally continue to feel young in their hearts as they age." I agree, until their bodies or their minds won't allow it any longer. And all poems are worth more than a dime. I was being facetious. Mine are so yours must be By the way, I'm almost 70...I'm not "old" either, but I have buried both parents and a sister. I know a thing or two about this subject, too.

Just so you'll know, I thought better of my "dime" remark, and I deleted it before you posted. I didn't mean to be snarky.

As I said a few posts up, I'm concerned that I was romanticizing old age when I wrote this in my late 40's, and I think you're reacting to that. People get less romantic as they age.

I want to put the poem to "bed" in the sense that I want to get it in final form and don't want to bother with it any more.

I have also buried both parents and a sister.

Thanks again for your feedback! I'll look up the Durante song.

[ellajam]

People get less romantic as they get older.

Ha, speak for yourself. That's not what I've found, and that's not what I take from your poem.

[Caleb Murdock]

Ha, speak for yourself. That's not what I've found, and that's not what I take from your poem.

When I wrote that, I was wondering if someone might take exception to it. I've definitely gotten less romantic as I age. I'm more a realist than I used to be. I have much more contact with older people now than when I was young, and none of them seem romantic to me. It takes energy to be romantic.

[71degrees]

Don't get me wrong...I DO like your poem. But you've already told me you are "putting this one to bed" so I'm not sure what you really want. Listen to Jimmy Durante's version of "When You're Young at Heart" This is the best version out there for the message you are working toward that " people generally continue to feel young in their hearts as they age." I agree, until their bodies or their minds won't allow it any longer. And all poems are worth more than a dime. I was being facetious. Mine are so yours must be By the way, I'm almost 70...I'm not "old" either, but I have buried both parents and a sister. I know a thing or two about this subject, too.

Just so you'll know, I thought better of my "dime" remark, and I deleted it before you posted. I didn't mean to be snarky.

As I said a few posts up, I'm concerned that I was romanticizing old age when I wrote this in my late 40's, and I think you're reacting to that. People get less romantic as they age.

I want to put the poem to "bed" in the sense that I want to get it in final form and don't want to bother with it any more.

I have also buried both parents and a sister.

Thanks again for your feedback! I'll look up the Durante song.

Have you seen some of the comments in other posts? No such thing as "snarky" around here. Swing away. Frank Sinatra version is good, but Durante version is better.

"People get less romantic as they age" It's more work these days, I'll grant you, but the rewards are better than they used to be. Not exactly sure how young you mean by "young"....but young folks I know take certain things for granted. When you start taking your partner for granted, you're toast. Look at the divorce rate...lots of toast our there. I'm liking your poem more and more.

[John Galt]

Hello Caleb.

Youth is a strange thing, superficial and thin —
As fine and slight as snow, and quickly over;
Yet many a woman and most men
Will have it as their only lover.

The statement that, youth is a "strange thing" does not work for me. Youth is youth.
"Superficial and thin" is the same thing as "fine and slight as snow"
and is therefore redundant. It is also "show" not "tell".

I like the connotation of the last line.

Even I, who says it does not sway me,
Look in your aged eyes and love them so
Because I see the youngster waiting;
Though were youth to leave, I would not go.

This verse starts the mixed message I recieve when reading. IE.
What "youth" are you talking about, the youth of "looks" or the youth
of "internal feeling", that correlates with the "suprerficial and thin" in line 1.

And so we are children in our hearts,
And that is why our age seems so outrageous;
Beauty fades, but the composure in your face
Could in no way be more gorgeous.

Exess wording within the poem needs cutting, hence, in this verse, "and so" in line1 could go, and the "And" that starts line 2.
I cannot see how "composure" can be described as "gorgeous" in this
context. Even though "beauty" fades we would still see beauty in that fading ( or at least it seems the narrator of this poem would).
The way this verse in particular is written comes across as "wooden"

Walk with me to the porch; let us sit
And be content, as old folks often are;
One old hand wrapped tightly in another,
And the porch light just another star.

The "woodeness" carries on here, I think it's the matter of factness that does it, added to the order of the words, the poem feels "dead".

The Porch light being "just another star" does not work for me, it seems tagged on because there is no sense to it (within the context of what goes before it) that I can discern.

Let us be content to watch the end settle
Around us three — one and one and two —
Like the soft shawl held to our necks — an end
That is not an end, but the start of something new.

The use of "content" again is not good. It could be cut from the verse above.
The second line is overdone, everything after "Around us" does not need to be there.
The same with some of line 3, "like a soft shawl" on its own is much more effective.
The use of "watch the end" seems odd to me, especially coupled with
"soft shawl" "Feel the end" maybe?.

Hope some of this comes across as relevant. JG

[Caleb Murdock]

Have you seen some of the comments in other posts? No such thing as "snarky" around here. Swing away. Frank Sinatra version is good, but Durante version is better.

"People get less romantic as they age" It's more work these days, I'll grant you, but the rewards are better than they used to be. Not exactly sure how young you mean by "young"....but young folks I know take certain things for granted. When you start taking your partner for granted, you're toast. Look at the divorce rate...lots of toast our there. I'm liking your poem more and more.

The one thing I've learned as I grow older is that everyone's experience is different. Some people seem to love the physical world, and some don't. My 84-year-old friend had a very rewarding life, whereas I barely survived from one moment to the next. I'm very religious, and I believe in reincarnation and also in multiple universes. For my next life I want to go to a universe where you get better as you age -- not just intellectually (which I have), but physically.

I used to post on Eratosphere, and people would swing away there, and the brawls were unbelievable. I left there ten years ago when one of the moderators actually mocked me for writing an amateurish poem. I'm trying to be a little more civilized here. On the last forum I posted on, there were a lot poems posted by "19-year-old wrist-slashers" (that's what one of the moderators called them in a private note), and I didn't want to be the one who finally drove them to suicide.

It's nice to hear that you are liking the poem more. Right now I'm packing orders after a sale. When I have more time, I'll look for some of your poems (and Christopher's too).

[Erthona]

Caleb,

- The third line used to say, "Yet many a woman and most of men". I liked it, but most readers thought I was trying to flesh out the meter (I wasn't), so I removed "of". Does it sound good the way it stands now?
- Does the "outrageous/gorgeous" rhyme sound too strained or comical?
- Do you understand the "one and one and two" line?
I have other things to say about the poem, but I'll wait for some feedback first. One more thing: I wasn't trying to write a metrically perfect poem, so considerations about the meter aren't very important to me.

it is clear to me now that I was romanticizing old age. I think if you can correct the math problem, it's definitely worth keeping.>

Dale