Accentual Verse

[ellajam]

I received this critique:

Marcella,

This is mostly in trimeter in accentual verse isn't it? I count mostly three accents per line.

Just listen to the first two lines.

Started as a lark,
morphed into a monster

as there is only incidental rhyme, it's a shame not to follow that pattern all the way through. As you are not end rhyming, it doesn't get singsong. There are a number of reasons I like accentual verse, but one is that it has a earthiness about it, hearth and home, and all that.

Dale

Right now, I can see that most lines have three stresses, but they are not regular. Would I have to pick a meter and stick to it or are any three stresses enough to make this work? All I have now is accidental accentual verse, .

[milo]

I received this critique:

Marcella,

This is mostly in trimeter in accentual verse isn't it? I count mostly three accents per line.

Just listen to the first two lines.

Started as a lark,
morphed into a monster

as there is only incidental rhyme, it's a shame not to follow that pattern all the way through. As you are not end rhyming, it doesn't get singsong. There are a number of reasons I like accentual verse, but one is that it has a earthiness about it, hearth and home, and all that.

Dale

Right now, I can see that most lines have three stresses, but they are not regular. Would I have to pick a meter and stick to it or are any three stresses enough to make this work? All I have now is accidental accentual verse, .

Accentual verse was quite popular just 1000 years ago, let's bring it back! Seriously though, it tends to work better if you are singing it with a specific melody, maybe include a bongo!

I have never been a big fan of accentual verse in modern english poetry, line breaks won't provide the regularity through reading to give a true rhythm. Also, it tends to be particularly ineffective with short clipped lines (anything less than 4 beats, really).

[ellajam]

I received this critique:

Marcella,

This is mostly in trimeter in accentual verse isn't it? I count mostly three accents per line.

Just listen to the first two lines.

Started as a lark,
morphed into a monster

as there is only incidental rhyme, it's a shame not to follow that pattern all the way through. As you are not end rhyming, it doesn't get singsong. There are a number of reasons I like accentual verse, but one is that it has a earthiness about it, hearth and home, and all that.

Dale

Right now, I can see that most lines have three stresses, but they are not regular. Would I have to pick a meter and stick to it or are any three stresses enough to make this work? All I have now is accidental accentual verse, .

Accentual verse was quite popular just 1000 years ago, let's bring it back! Seriously though, it tends to work better if you are singing it with a specific melody, maybe include a bongo!

I have never been a big fan of accentual verse in modern english poetry, line breaks won't provide the regularity through reading to give a true rhythm. Also, it tends to be particularly ineffective with short clipped lines (anything less than 4 beats, really).

Well, I know you're a fan of meter, so you are saying accentual verse is stress count only, not necessarily regular?

Nope, no plans to sing it, even with a bongo to drown me out.

[milo]

I received this critique:


Right now, I can see that most lines have three stresses, but they are not regular. Would I have to pick a meter and stick to it or are any three stresses enough to make this work? All I have now is accidental accentual verse, .

Accentual verse was quite popular just 1000 years ago, let's bring it back! Seriously though, it tends to work better if you are singing it with a specific melody, maybe include a bongo!

I have never been a big fan of accentual verse in modern english poetry, line breaks won't provide the regularity through reading to give a true rhythm. Also, it tends to be particularly ineffective with short clipped lines (anything less than 4 beats, really).

Well, I know you're a fan of meter, so you are saying accentual verse is stress count only, not necessarily regular?

Nope, no plans to sing it, even with a bongo to drown me out.

Accentual verse is stress count /per line/ but modern reading has demoted the line break pause to near insignificance. If you were to make an audio of accentual verse I would be hard pressed to recognize it as other than free verse while metric verse (though also demoted in modern reading) would be obvious.

Now, if you are insistent on using archaic, clownish poetic devices, you may as well pack some alliterstion in.

[ellajam]

Accentual verse was quite popular just 1000 years ago, let's bring it back! Seriously though, it tends to work better if you are singing it with a specific melody, maybe include a bongo!

I have never been a big fan of accentual verse in modern english poetry, line breaks won't provide the regularity through reading to give a true rhythm. Also, it tends to be particularly ineffective with short clipped lines (anything less than 4 beats, really).

Well, I know you're a fan of meter, so you are saying accentual verse is stress count only, not necessarily regular?

Nope, no plans to sing it, even with a bongo to drown me out.

Accentual verse is stress count /per line/ but modern reading has demoted the line break pause to near insignificance. If you were to make an audio of accentual verse I would be hard pressed to recognize it as other than free verse while metric verse (though also demoted in modern reading) would be obvious.

Now, if you are insistent on using archaic, clownish poetic devices, you may as well pack some alliterstion in.

Now, don't be making fun of my alliteration. It comes out that way and some of it is quite nice sounding. Feel free to point out anything specifically awful, but I won't chuck a line that I like the sound of to eliminate it. If it's not in style I don't mind being the odd man out.

[milo]

Well, I know you're a fan of meter, so you are saying accentual verse is stress count only, not necessarily regular?

Nope, no plans to sing it, even with a bongo to drown me out.

Accentual verse is stress count /per line/ but modern reading has demoted the line break pause to near insignificance. If you were to make an audio of accentual verse I would be hard pressed to recognize it as other than free verse while metric verse (though also demoted in modern reading) would be obvious.

Now, if you are insistent on using archaic, clownish poetic devices, you may as well pack some alliterstion in.

Now, don't be making fun of my alliteration. It comes out that way and some of it is quite nice sounding. Feel free to point out anything specifically awful, but I won't chuck a line that I like the sound of to eliminate it. If it's not in style I don't mind being the odd man out.

Actually I was making a joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse

I was alluding to A-S alliterative verse, the last effective use of accentual verse but, yah, I consider alliteration to be the most misused and abused sonic device in poetry which seems to produce endless streams of "nice alliteration" when in actuality "thank god, a poetic device I recognise" is what they mean. Its uses and effects are misunderstood and is almost always best avoided by all but the most advanced writers if possible but that's a discussion for another day.

[ellajam]

That's what Hugh did for the telephone thread? That may be my favorite, he did a great job of it, what a fun poem to read, some great lines.

Fast Fred's final flub is as follows:

After a booze and blow binge and a botched booty call,
he turned and trod with terrible trepidation
down the deck door, determined to drive to Clamdigger’s Cove.

Close the curtains on all collective comeuppance- Saturday’s surpassed all..

Some superbly stacked split-tail made him stiff;
her olive ocular orbs ogled him oddly
as her amazingly arced ass made him antsy to ask
if the wanton woman wanted a wad to wiggle his wood.

But his mega-moistened mouth managed a measly, “May, I, may I..”
before he violently vomited very vast volumes of vittles
on the harpy’s harlequin halter top as she hollered in horror, “Help!”
"..buy you a bottle of bourbon?" he babbled,
grappling with gravity while graphically grabbing George and Gracie.
She kneed his nads, and his noggin nosed her nethers. “I never!” she screamed,
and suddenly stormed, seething, from Sammy’s South Street Saloon.

Fred, frantic and fried, floundered in futility on the foul floor.
Larry, Lester, and the lousy lot laughed long and loudly,
joking and jawing and jabbing and jibing. Fred jockeyed
to a perpendicular position and plodded pathetically past his putrid puddle,
crying, “I’ll crash my crappy Chevy Cobalt into Clamdigger’s Cove, chumps!”

He recklessly rambled into Ralph Ruggles, who reeled, then righted
as Fred fled in his car of red, and is assumed dead.

fogglethorpe (Hugh)

[milo]

That's what Hugh did for the telephone thread? That may be my favorite, he did a great job of it, what a fun poem to read, some great lines.

Well, it's not alliterative verse if that's what you were suggesting.

---

Here is a piece of modern alliterative verse written by peter j. Ross:


Riddle

Born in a barrow, the beast full-grown
was rude and irrational. Ridden never,
nor prey-deprived, he preached a gospel
to farmers, confounders, fools and bowyers,
and tallied their tithes. The tusks are mine,
he would say, that sundered sea from the land,
food from the firmament; the feet mine too,
hard and hazardous, huntsman-slaying,
that cut down Calvary; cooks, read this
for my dressing.

[ellajam]

I don't understand why Peter's is and Hugh's isn't

[milo]

I don't understand why Peter's is and Hugh's isn't

First I should point out that it is not a quality judgement as I think peter's is awful (and I told him that when he wrote it)

There are technical definitions that need to be met in alliterative verse, peter's meets them, hugh's doesn't.

[abu nuwas]

I don't understand why Peter's is and Hugh's isn't

First I should point out that it is not a quality judgement as I think peter's is awful (and I told him that when he wrote it)

There are technical definitions that need to be met in alliterative verse, peter's meets them, hugh's doesn't.

Or more simply, ''the repetition of the same initial letter in closely successive words'' Nuttall's Standard Dictionary of the English Language, 1932

[milo]

I don't understand why Peter's is and Hugh's isn't

First I should point out that it is not a quality judgement as I think peter's is awful (and I told him that when he wrote it)

There are technical definitions that need to be met in alliterative verse, peter's meets them, hugh's doesn't.

Or more simply, ''the repetition of the same initial letter in closely successive words'' Nuttall's Standard Dictionary of the English Language, 1932

That is a definition of alliteration not alliterative verse.

[Leanne]

In other words, Hugh's used alliteration as well as other techniques (and quite cleverly), while Peter picked a pattern that's heavy-handed and horrible -- it sounds like an Anglo-Saxon abortion.

[milo]

In other words, Hugh's used alliteration as well as other techniques (and quite cleverly), while Peter picked a pattern that's heavy-handed and horrible -- it sounds like an Anglo-Saxon abortion.

It is pretty bad. I don't recall anyone liking it much. A good example can be found in Seamus heaney's Beowulf though even that gets old pretty quick.

[Leanne]

When done properly in either Anglo-Saxon poetry or using the Irish notion of uaim (with amus -- assonance and uaithne -- consonance), alliteration is not oppressive but necessary. Heaney studied both schools extensively and grew up in the tradition; still, reading Beowulf in one sitting without a fireside and a lot of whiskey can indeed become slightly tedious. The one redeeming feature of most modern attempts at alliterative verse is that at least they run out of steam very quickly.

---

PS. Ella, there's nothing wrong with writing with accent rather than perfect meter, it's just that if it's only accentual by accident then a smoothing-over with a meter rule will definitely serve you well

[NobodyNothing]

Whoosh! I'm going to pretend I didn't read this thread. Pure poetic self preservation instinct in play.

[ellajam]

Accentual verse is stress count /per line/ but modern reading has demoted the line break pause to near insignificance. If you were to make an audio of accentual verse I would be hard pressed to recognize it as other than free verse while metric verse (though also demoted in modern reading) would be obvious.

Now, if you are insistent on using archaic, clownish poetic devices, you may as well pack some alliterstion in.

Now, don't be making fun of my alliteration. It comes out that way and some of it is quite nice sounding. Feel free to point out anything specifically awful, but I won't chuck a line that I like the sound of to eliminate it. If it's not in style I don't mind being the odd man out.

Actually I was making a joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse

I was alluding to A-S alliterative verse, the last effective use of accentual verse but, yah, I consider alliteration to be the most misused and abused sonic device in poetry which seems to produce endless streams of "nice alliteration" when in actuality "thank god, a poetic device I recognise" is what they mean. Its uses and effects are misunderstood and is almost always best avoided by all but the most advanced writers if possible but that's a discussion for another day.

Well, I tried to follow the explanation of alliterative verse, unsuccessfully. I now get the joke. I think I'll save my last functioning brain cell for something else.

---

When done properly in either Anglo-Saxon poetry or using the Irish notion of uaim (with amus -- assonance and uaithne -- consonance), alliteration is not oppressive but necessary. Heaney studied both schools extensively and grew up in the tradition; still, reading Beowulf in one sitting without a fireside and a lot of whiskey can indeed become slightly tedious. The one redeeming feature of most modern attempts at alliterative verse is that at least they run out of steam very quickly.

---

PS. Ella, there's nothing wrong with writing with accent rather than perfect meter, it's just that if it's only accentual by accident then a smoothing-over with a meter rule will definitely serve you well

My meager lines are only 5 or 7 syllables long. I was surprised that Erthona found any consistency at all. But he was right. On my own I found only 8 lines that were off, though I'm not a reliable source. I don't know if there's a meter rule tiny enough for this one.

[milo]

Now, don't be making fun of my alliteration. It comes out that way and some of it is quite nice sounding. Feel free to point out anything specifically awful, but I won't chuck a line that I like the sound of to eliminate it. If it's not in style I don't mind being the odd man out.

Actually I was making a joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse

I was alluding to A-S alliterative verse, the last effective use of accentual verse but, yah, I consider alliteration to be the most misused and abused sonic device in poetry which seems to produce endless streams of "nice alliteration" when in actuality "thank god, a poetic device I recognise" is what they mean. Its uses and effects are misunderstood and is almost always best avoided by all but the most advanced writers if possible but that's a discussion for another day.

Well, I tried to follow the explanation of alliterative verse, unsuccessfully. I now get the joke. I think I'll save my last functioning brain cell for something else.

Eh, my jokes always seem to be inside jokes with me being the only person inside. On top of that they seem to require a ton of work with very little payout. Ugh.

[ellajam]

Actually I was making a joke http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliterative_verse

I was alluding to A-S alliterative verse, the last effective use of accentual verse but, yah, I consider alliteration to be the most misused and abused sonic device in poetry which seems to produce endless streams of "nice alliteration" when in actuality "thank god, a poetic device I recognise" is what they mean. Its uses and effects are misunderstood and is almost always best avoided by all but the most advanced writers if possible but that's a discussion for another day.

Well, I tried to follow the explanation of alliterative verse, unsuccessfully. I now get the joke. I think I'll save my last functioning brain cell for something else.

Eh, my jokes always seem to be inside jokes with me being the only person inside. On top of that they seem to require a ton of work with very little payout. Ugh.

Next year when you reuse it I'll get it right away.

[Truerenigma]

We had a discussion you were involved in about this while back ella--the one where the double dactyl first came up. member?

nevermind. we were talking about quantitative verse. pologies.

(really, outdated or not effective in modern english is, well outdated and ineffective in modern english, irregardless)