Thoughts Upon Style and Substance
#1
.

Slink forth not, oh vile deceit,
from babes to old, you steal their meat.
Pretend not to a worthy be,
let all the world the truth to see,
Conciliatory does defile,
when done with grace and form and style.
What lacking you? Just skin and bones,
and muscle too, no mouth to groan.
No blood does pump within your veins,
but you lack not to fill your train,
a ready place for all the weak,
for those who slouch, for those who sneak.

For all the victims of the world,
pay them off with spinning whorls,
and keep them there imprisoned deep,
beneath this old and moldy keep,
far better yet that they are blinded,
than learn themselves the truth behind it.
Within you lack the substance most.
You take from saints, the holy host,
to hide your superficial game,
say “all is one, and all the same”,
and cloth yourself with style and grace,
an empty smile upon your face.
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#2
generally i think you have a few to many yoda style lines. that apart. i think you have the makings of a double sonnet with very little work.

if this were about me i'd feel very depressed Big Grin though perhaps not, i like the sly feel it imparts. it gives me a feeling that the style and substance are not just about the poem but also the poet.
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#3
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." Big Grin

Very hard hitting. I'm wondering about this line:

"pay them off with spinning whorls"

It makes me think of those hypnotism wheels. Is that what you mean or something I can't think of?
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#4
Billy,

Hardly a sonnet as this is written in iambic tetrameter, not pentameter. "if this were about me i'd feel very depressed" it's about those who value style above substance. Or as someone once said, "It's better to look good than to feel good darling!"
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Marcells,

I'm wondering about this line: "pay them off with spinning whorls"

The answer is yes and no. Yes it refers to those hypnotism wheels one gets as a prize at the circus, but it also means any worthless bauble. BTW this is written in accentual meter not quantitative meter!

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#5
(03-26-2014, 02:24 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Billy,

Hardly a sonnet as this is written in iambic tetrameter, not pentameter. "if this were about me i'd feel very depressed" it's about those who value style above substance. Or as someone once said, "It's better to look good than to feel good darling!"
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Marcells,

I'm wondering about this line: "pay them off with spinning whorls"

The answer is yes and no. Yes it refers to those hypnotism wheels one gets as a prize at the circus, but it also means any worthless bauble. BTW this is written in accentual meter not quantitative meter!

Dale
Big Grin

So pinwheels, that works better with pay them off.

If the title hadn't led me elsewhere I think I would have applied it to organized religion.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#6
Thanks Marcella,

"pinwheels" yes that is exactly it. It primarily applies to poetry, but could apply to religion, politics, science, et. al.

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Reply
#7
(03-21-2014, 08:47 AM)Erthona Wrote:  .

Slink forth not, oh vile deceit,
from babes to old, you steal their meat.
Pretend not to a worthy be,
let all the world the truth to see,
Conciliatory does defile,
when done with grace and form and style.
What lacking you? Just skin and bones,
and muscle too, no mouth to groan.
No blood does pump within your veins,
but you lack not to fill your train,
a ready place for all the weak,
for those who slouch, for those who sneak.

For all the victims of the world,
pay them off with spinning whorls,
and keep them there imprisoned deep,
beneath this old and moldy keep,
far better yet that they are blinded,
than learn themselves the truth behind it.
Within you lack the substance most.
You take from saints, the holy host,
to hide your superficial game,
say “all is one, and all the same”,
and cloth yourself with style and grace,
an empty smile upon your face.

Both your style and substance are old school Dale. I can deal with the archaic speak because you do it so well. Nonetheless, can't the four words, 'what lacking you', be substituted with something less inverted (e.g. What you do lack: ). Ignore, if you please, as miscellaneous this is. Tongue There is some fire in your final stanza. I would swear that you were a preacher and I see that beard as being animated whilst you read this. Thanks for the post./Chris
My new watercolor: 'Nightmare After Christmas'/Chris
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#8
Chris,

Yeah, well I was going for the Jonathan Edwards'. My rationale for the "what lacking you", is it seemed more like how he would say it...maybe not. Your suggestion would work just as well. Evidently Billy didn't like it, although he left to me to guess that which he was not liking Smile

Thanks,

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Reply
#9
"hardly a sonnet as this is written in iambic tetrameter, not pentameter."

Huh

I couldn't finish the poem. The tortured phrasing, inversions, and dated diction were just too much for me. I've never understood why some people think such things are poetic.
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#10
(03-26-2014, 07:48 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Chris,

Yeah, well I was going for the Jonathan Edwards'. My rationale for the "what lacking you", is it seemed more like how he would say it...maybe not. Your suggestion would work just as well. Evidently Billy didn't like it, although he left to me to guess that which he was not liking Smile

Thanks,

Dale

...and that is fine with me!

By the way, everybody knows that Yoda is billy's most hated StarWars character. Did you know that he is the president of the JarJarBinks fan club?
My new watercolor: 'Nightmare After Christmas'/Chris
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#11
Most hated character of Billy Yoda is, so much alike look they! HystericalHysterical

trueenigma,

"I couldn't finish the poem. The tortured phrasing, inversions, and dated diction were just too much for me. I've never understood why some people think such things are poetic."

I choose the style purposefully because it sounds like a fire and brimstone preacher, not because I think the style makes it poetic. If you were to read through all of the poetry I have posted on this site (I'm not recommending that), you would not find another written in this style. In this I was trying to mimic "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Johnathan Edwards.

"We find it easy to tread on and crush a worm that we see crawling on the earth; so it is easy for us to cut or singe a slender thread that any thing hangs by: thus easy is it for God, when he pleases, to cast his enemies down to hell. What are we, that we should think to stand before him, at whose rebuke the earth trembles, and before whom the rocks are thrown down?"

Of course this is a sermon, not a poem.

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#12
Quote:Of course this is a sermon, not a poem.

Oh, maybe that's why I couldn't finish it!

I'm still baffled by the tetrameter/pentameter comment though.
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#13
" Of course this is a sermon, not a poem.
Oh, maybe that's why I couldn't finish it!"

I didn't mean the poem was a sermon. Although I believe what it says is true, it was also written somewhat facetiously, as it really doesn't matter what poetry is or isn't, whether it has substance or is just a fad, since poetry as an art form is almost dead, if not dead.

"It’s what everyone does today,
Or so it’s what they say, “they say!”
So I guess it must be OK! “ok?”
Poetry extemporaneously improvised:
Contemporaneously-impromptu-un-devised."



Billy said, "i think you have the makings of a double sonnet with very little work." A sonnet is composed of iambic pentameter (five feet per line in iambs), this however, only has four feet per line (tetrameter), and it switches between trochee and iambs.


Thanks for your thoughts,


Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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#14
Thank you. That answers my questions. It all make sense now.
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#15
Well if it all makes sense then I guess I failed. I write obscurely so people will think I am smart.

Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Reply
#16
Hmmm... That's an interesting strategy, but when I write obscurely it is usually because I'm not sure of exactly what the poem should be saying, or what is the best way to say it. I might try doing it intentionally now, but the only problem I see with people thinking I'm smart is they might expect too much from my poems, and judge them too harshly, and then I might not get any pats on the back, and I don't know if I can live without pats on the back . . .

I let all the typos fly for the opposiye effect.
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#17
Oh, I am never sure what my poem should be saying, I just kind of throw stuff against the wall and hope some of it sticks.
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"the only problem I see with people thinking I'm smart is they might expect too much from my poems"
well the trick to that is to just get more obscure, and of course they will not want to look dumb by admitting they don't know what it means, so they will pretend along with the others that you are just real deep!
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"then I might not get any pats on the back"

Well of course everyone needs pats on their backs, my aunt Pat is always on my back about something.
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"I let all the typos fly for the opposiye effect. "

O eyelet spiel checker core wreck all mine typos. I rally dew like it. I wood have bean good in the "Spanish Imposition" they cud knot have tried me cause they wood knot no if I was bean hair rhetorical are not.
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
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