The Reasoning

[Wildcard]

Rev. 7-27-13

because you are just opinionated enough
to make me feel as if I have won something
when you knuckle under to my oppression

in spite of your body
which looks better
in dim light

on top
of liking you a lot more
for being dumb enough to fuck with me

instead of just leaving
so you can find a real lover
to lie in silence

Original

The Real Reason

because you are just opinionated enough
to make me feel as if I have won something
when you knuckle under to my oppression

in spite of your body
which looks better
in dim light

on top
of liking you a lot
for being dumb enough to fuck with me

instead of just leaving
so you can find someone who will lie to you
like any real lover would

[tectak]

because you are just opinionated enough
to make me feel as if I have won something
when you knuckle under to my oppression

in spite of your body
which looks better
in dim light

on top
of liking you a lot
for being dumb enough to fuck with me

instead of just leaving you
so you can find someone who will lie to you
like any real lover would

If only it rhymed...this is perfect as a concept. C'mon mark. Give in to effort. This is GOOD.
Best,
tectak

[HelenaHandbasket]

I think you need to look at your line breaks and where you put them, they don't really add to the flow of the poem.
Also, I think it might be more effective as one stanza, maybe add some punctuation.
I really like the first two lines, I think they're very strong.

[modern_poet]

I think it's ok but would like to see more rhythm and flow and some rhyming, but good subject matter.

[billy]

great to see 3 newbs dropping some feedback in.

---

maybe the title could say just a bit more. i'm getting an incredulous feeling as to why she stays. on the other hand there's a sexist put down of the woman that works within the way a lot of guys are with women. it asks questions, i'd like to see an odd answer. even a rhetorical one. that said, the poem isn't bad, i enjoyed the read. it's great that you're managing to get some poetry in. ")

because you are just opinionated enough is just needed? the line feels like a stronger opener without it. if you want to use it would it be better as Just because yo....?
to make me feel as if I have won something
when you knuckle under to my oppression

in spite of your body
which looks better
in dim light this stanza for me epitomises love

on top
of liking you a lot
for being dumb enough to fuck with me do you mean fuck you or mess about with you? while i question the fact, i do like the ambiguity of it

instead of just leaving
so you can find someone who will lie to you
like any real lover would not sure this line works because it doesn't feel true. any real lover would surely tell the truth?

[Wildcard]

If only it rhymed...this is perfect as a concept. C'mon mark. Give in to effort. This is GOOD.

Thank you for taking the time to give me feedback

Do you mind telling me why it needs to rhyme? Also, what does 'give in to effort' mean?

Cheers

I think you need to look at your line breaks and where you put them, they don't really add to the flow of the poem.
Also, I think it might be more effective as one stanza, maybe add some punctuation.
I really like the first two lines, I think they're very strong.

I'll look at the line breaks. Thanks for your advice.

I think it's ok but would like to see more rhythm and flow and some rhyming, but good subject matter.

Again, I don't feel it should rhyme, but maybe that is just me. Cheers for the thoughts.

There seem to be several sexual connotations, the interplay between hostility and closeness are perfect.

Yes, thanks for affirming that connection.

Thanks for the kind words.

great to see 3 newbs dropping some feedback in.

Isn't it? What a good bunch you've got here now. I'm very impressed with what I've seen for all the new members.

maybe the title could say just a bit more. i'm getting an incredulous feeling as to why she stays. on the other hand there's a sexist put down of the woman that works within the way a lot of guys are with women. it asks questions, i'd like to see an odd answer. even a rhetorical one. that said, the poem isn't bad, i enjoyed the read. it's great that you're managing to get some poetry in. ")

The title, I can agree needs work. 'The Real Reason I love You' seems to give away too much though so I'll stick with this till I think of something else.

I actually had to fly to Washington so I wrote this on the flight-- first time I have spent 6 hours without a PC in a while :p

because you are just opinionated enough is just needed? the line feels like a stronger opener without it. if you want to use it would it be better as Just because yo....?

I think it is necessary because if she were any more strong willed then he couldn't abide her in his scheme of things-- she is just opinionated enough-- no more no less . . . regardless I'll think about it.

for being dumb enough to fuck with me do you mean fuck you or mess about with you? while i question the fact, i do like the ambiguity of it

Both.

That's why I slid 'on top' up there by itself.

like any real lover would not sure this line works because it doesn't feel true. any real lover would surely tell the truth?

Keep in mind that it isn't what is real to the reader in this case, but from this guy's perspective a 'real' lover wouldn't be so honest knowing it hurts so much. I don't really care that much if I give too much away in this one because it is like a story to me-- kind of a dream I had on the plane.

Thank you so much-- we think very differently and so your feedback always gives me a lot to think about.
Cheers boss.

[serge gurkski]

Seriously, I see no nits. Works perfectly well for me. Good poem.

cheers
serge

[Wildcard]

I've done a little editing to the last two strophes. Thanks to all who commented.

[tectak]

If only it rhymed...this is perfect as a concept. C'mon mark. Give in to effort. This is GOOD.

Thank you for taking the time to give me feedback

Do you mind telling me why it needs to rhyme? Also, what does 'give in to effort' mean?

Cheers

I think you need to look at your line breaks and where you put them, they don't really add to the flow of the poem.
Also, I think it might be more effective as one stanza, maybe add some punctuation.
I really like the first two lines, I think they're very strong.

I'll look at the line breaks. Thanks for your advice.

I think it's ok but would like to see more rhythm and flow and some rhyming, but good subject matter.

Again, I don't feel it should rhyme, but maybe that is just me. Cheers for the thoughts.

There seem to be several sexual connotations, the interplay between hostility and closeness are perfect.

Yes, thanks for affirming that connection.

Thanks for the kind words.

great to see 3 newbs dropping some feedback in.

Isn't it? What a good bunch you've got here now. I'm very impressed with what I've seen for all the new members.

maybe the title could say just a bit more. i'm getting an incredulous feeling as to why she stays. on the other hand there's a sexist put down of the woman that works within the way a lot of guys are with women. it asks questions, i'd like to see an odd answer. even a rhetorical one. that said, the poem isn't bad, i enjoyed the read. it's great that you're managing to get some poetry in. ")

The title, I can agree needs work. 'The Real Reason I love You' seems to give away too much though so I'll stick with this till I think of something else.

I actually had to fly to Washington so I wrote this on the flight-- first time I have spent 6 hours without a PC in a while :p

because you are just opinionated enough is just needed? the line feels like a stronger opener without it. if you want to use it would it be better as Just because yo....?

I think it is necessary because if she were any more strong willed then he couldn't abide her in his scheme of things-- she is just opinionated enough-- no more no less . . . regardless I'll think about it.

for being dumb enough to fuck with me do you mean fuck you or mess about with you? while i question the fact, i do like the ambiguity of it

Both.

That's why I slid 'on top' up there by itself.

like any real lover would not sure this line works because it doesn't feel true. any real lover would surely tell the truth?

Keep in mind that it isn't what is real to the reader in this case, but from this guy's perspective a 'real' lover wouldn't be so honest knowing it hurts so much. I don't really care that much if I give too much away in this one because it is like a story to me-- kind of a dream I had on the plane.

Thank you so much-- we think very differently and so your feedback always gives me a lot to think about.
Cheers boss.

Mark,IT DOES NOT NEED TO RHYME! It does not need to have meter, it does not need to have metaphor, it does not need imagery, it does not need to exhibit any if the recognised ( argue by who if you wish) attributes of poetic endeavour. It does not need correct punctuation, syntax, or competant word use. I needs nothing if that is what you want to post....but then, why post it?
You are, as I said months ago, a better poet than you realise. Leave it as is. Go home happy.
Best,
tectak

[Wildcard]

Mark,IT DOES NOT NEED TO RHYME! It does not need to have meter, it does not need to have metaphor, it does not need imagery,

You said it needed to rhyme, not me. I am just asking you to explain why you think a poem needs to rhyme?

it does not need to exhibit any if the recognised ( argue by who if you wish) attributes of poetic endeavour. It does not need correct punctuation, syntax, or competant word use.

a) punctuation is something I have done in other cases but felt that this poem was better suited to an ambiguous style

b) and as to my competent word use, would it be too much to ask which words aren't competent enough for you?

I needs nothing if that is what you want to post....but then, why post it?

I posted it in order to get feedback on it. Why are you attacking me for that?

You are, as I said months ago, a better poet than you realise. Leave it as is. Go home happy.
Best,
tectak

I certainly want to be a better poet but the comments you make are so vague and negative that I am doubtful they could ever help me.

"give in to effort"

"use competent wording"

These are not helpful things to say. I do appreciate your time, but explain why the wording is incompetent and why you think the poem needs a meter or rhymes.

If you only hurl your vague thoughts at me, it will only serve to frustrate us both.

Cheers.

[billy]

the above is the wrong way to take feedback, if you can't use the feedback then don't use it, i hate some of the feedback i get for similar reasons but they took the time to respond and for that i'm extremely grateful. just clench your bum cheeks and let it pass. :J:

i see you did an edit mark.

small but it adds to the poem, specially the last line, lovers do often suffer in silence. the title is is also better.

[Wildcard]

the above is the wrong way to take feedback, if you can't use the feedback then don't use it, i hate some of the feedback i get for similar reasons but they took the time to respond and for that i'm extremely grateful. just clench your bum cheeks and let it pass. :J:

This is in serious critique. tectak is a mod so I assume he understands that 'give in to effort' is not an explanation of why or why not something is competent.

He obviously has something to add and I am eager to hear it. That is why I sought clarification. There is no malice in any of those words.

i see you did an edit mark.

small but it adds to the poem, specially the last line, lovers do often suffer in silence. the title is is also better.

Thank you. Still not happy with the title and thought of something different the moment I posted it, but now that doesn't feel right either.

I am hoping to stretch the ambiguity of 'lie' in the last line if I can think of a better cast of surrounding words.

Cheers for your thoughts.

[billy]

would a question mark help the title.

[Wildcard]

would a question mark help the title.

Just maybe . . . ok now you made me think of something else entirely

I will get back to this when I can. Thanks for the feedback, boss.

[heslopian]

Rev. 7-27-13

because you are just opinionated enough "Because" what? Because of the word "because" the whole poem feels like an unresolved sentence clause.
to make me feel as if I have won something
when you knuckle under to my oppression "Oppression" is a good word, well-placed at the end of this verse. It's surprising because it implies a large admittance of error by your narrator, who's previously seemed focused on attacking whoever "you" is.

in spite of your body
which looks better
in dim light

on top
of liking you a lot more
for being dumb enough to fuck with me

instead of just leaving
so you can find a real lover
to lie in silence

Your narrator is clearly an asshole; a mean and domineering guy who seeks bad relationships because he can't handle a true, honest, loving one. He knows he's an asshole, however, and there's subtle self-deprecation in his voice. He doesn't think of himself as a "real lover", and admits he's oppressive. The characterisation is complex and good, but the poem as a whole is weak and underwritten. It needs imagery, metaphors, similes, things which make a poem a poem as opposed to just dialogue spat by your character at his oppressed lover.
All my critique is, of course, JMHO. Thanks for the read

[Wildcard]

"Because" what? Because of the word "because" the whole poem feels like an unresolved sentence clause.

Okay I see what you mean. I was hoping that the title would eventually work as a vehicle for posing the entire relationship as a question with several answers, but perhaps I just need to think of another way of doing it.

"Oppression" is a good word, well-placed at the end of this verse. It's surprising because it implies a large admittance of error by your narrator, who's previously seemed focused on attacking whoever "you" is.

Thanks.

The characterisation is complex and good, but the poem as a whole is weak and underwritten. It needs imagery, metaphors, similes, things which make a poem a poem as opposed to just dialogue spat by your character at his oppressed lover.

I will look for ways to add imagery. It is my weakest suit, I'd dare say. For some reason this seemed to me more the fly-on-the-way kind of poem . . . like an impression of words that would certainly never be uttered.

Can you think of a way to reinforce that this is an internal memo? A sort of convo with himself about her?

All my critique is, of course, JMHO. Thanks for the read

><

Jack you've given me a lot to think about. As is my habit, I will revisit this (and the feedback) when time can be found and hopefully I can see the difference between the poem in my head and the one you are reading now.

Thanks <3

[heslopian]

Can you think of a way to reinforce that this is an internal memo? A sort of convo with himself about her?

Maybe if you changed the title to a question, like "Why Do I Stay with You?". That would make the rest of the poem seem like an answer to the question, justifying "because" and "in spite of" and making it seem like a conversation.