using other forms besides iambic pentameter.

[Brownlie]

According to wikipedia there are four types of disyllables the iamb, the trochaic foot, the pyrrhus, and the spondee. There are also various "trisyllables" listed. I'd like to see what people think in regards to poetic theory, and I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark. I am fairly new to poetry myself and I would like to see some of the newer users educate themselves so we can all start writing real poetry and learn to appreciate this art that is often misunderstood. What forms work and why?

[milo]

According to wikipedia there are four types of disyllables the iamb, the trochaic foot, the pyrrhus, and the spondee. There are also various "trisyllables" listed. I'd like to see what people think in regards to poetic theory, and I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark. I am fairly new to poetry myself and I would like to see some of the newer users educate themselves so we can all start writing real poetry and learn to appreciate this art that is often misunderstood. What forms work and why?

can you tell me what meter this is in? http://pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=10419

[Brownlie]

According to wikipedia there are four types of disyllables the iamb, the trochaic foot, the pyrrhus, and the spondee. There are also various "trisyllables" listed. I'd like to see what people think in regards to poetic theory, and I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark. I am fairly new to poetry myself and I would like to see some of the newer users educate themselves so we can all start writing real poetry and learn to appreciate this art that is often misunderstood. What forms work and why?

can you tell me what meter this is in? http://pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=10419

I went through the poem several times and could not pinpoint the meter, and would you believe I almost have a b.a. in English? I noticed some points that may be iambs followed by anapest but I still have trouble deciphering what is supposed to be stressed. I would mangle the poem if I tried to read it.

[milo]

I doubt you would mangle it if you weren't thinking about it, it is designed to be rediculously easy to read, it should almost race by!!

[Brownlie]

I doubt you would mangle it if you weren't thinking about it, it is designed to be rediculously easy to read, it should almost race by!!

What was your intent? If you don't mind answering.

[milo]

I doubt you would mangle it if you weren't thinking about it, it is designed to be rediculously easy to read, it should almost race by!!

What was your intent? If you don't mind answering.

in trolling you here? in writing that poem? metrically? am I a beginner that is supposed to be learning my meters here?

[Brownlie]

I doubt you would mangle it if you weren't thinking about it, it is designed to be rediculously easy to read, it should almost race by!!

What was your intent? If you don't mind answering.

in trolling you here? in writing that poem? metrically? am I a beginner that is supposed to be learning my meters here?

I had a feeling that was a trick question... I don't know the purpose of your trolling. I would hope it is pedagogical. We all may stress different words it seems. Take the words him and her for instance... When you read Louis Carroll one can hear something others may miss... If you really know your poetry and there is evidence to support that conjecture then you may be able to elucidate some things here,

[milo]

What was your intent? If you don't mind answering.

in trolling you here? in writing that poem? metrically? am I a beginner that is supposed to be learning my meters here?

I had a feeling that was a trick question... I don't know the purpose of your trolling. I would hope it is pedagogical. We all may stress different words it seems. Take the words him and her for instance... When you read Louis Carroll one can hear something others may miss... If you really know your poetry and there is evidence to support that conjecture then you may be able to elucidate some things here,

ok, well I have a feeling that me just handing you everything isn't helping you as much as figuring it out yourself would be. Yes, that first one was written to be difficult to dissect (although it really is quite simple)

Try this one: http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=9364

it is simple enough and yet metrically interesting enough for our discussion.

[Brownlie]

in trolling you here? in writing that poem? metrically? am I a beginner that is supposed to be learning my meters here?

I had a feeling that was a trick question... I don't know the purpose of your trolling. I would hope it is pedagogical. We all may stress different words it seems. Take the words him and her for instance... When you read Louis Carroll one can hear something others may miss... If you really know your poetry and there is evidence to support that conjecture then you may be able to elucidate some things here,

ok, well I have a feeling that me just handing you everything isn't helping you as much as figuring it out yourself would be. Yes, that first one was written to be difficult to dissect (although it really is quite simple)

Try this one: http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=9364

it is simple enough and yet metrically interesting enough for our discussion.

What kind of feet are you using? I understand a villanelle needs two alternating refrains and the number of lines are set. Your refrains are not exact I'm not sure if you meant that.

[milo]

I had a feeling that was a trick question... I don't know the purpose of your trolling. I would hope it is pedagogical. We all may stress different words it seems. Take the words him and her for instance... When you read Louis Carroll one can hear something others may miss... If you really know your poetry and there is evidence to support that conjecture then you may be able to elucidate some things here,

ok, well I have a feeling that me just handing you everything isn't helping you as much as figuring it out yourself would be. Yes, that first one was written to be difficult to dissect (although it really is quite simple)

Try this one: http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=9364

it is simple enough and yet metrically interesting enough for our discussion.

What kind of feet are you using? I understand a villanelle needs two alternating refrains and the number of lines are set. Your refrains are not exact I'm not sure if you meant that.

I think you can do this, at least take a guess and i will tell you you're wrong.

[billy]

According to wikipedia there are four types of disyllables the iamb, the trochaic foot, the pyrrhus, and the spondee. There are also various "trisyllables" listed. I'd like to see what people think in regards to poetic theory, and I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark. I am fairly new to poetry myself and I would like to see some of the newer users educate themselves so we can all start writing real poetry and learn to appreciate this art that is often misunderstood. What forms work and why?

i'm still trying to learn what a fuckin iamb is
if i'm trying to write poetry in a form i try and follow the rules of the form, now and again i'll step a little bit outside the rules but in general, if it iambic whatever, then that's where i try to go.

all forms when well written and all free verse when well written work well. it's usually badly written poetry that begins not to work.

i'm try to find some public domain educational poetry books to put up but it ain't easy.

[Brownlie]

ok, well I have a feeling that me just handing you everything isn't helping you as much as figuring it out yourself would be. Yes, that first one was written to be difficult to dissect (although it really is quite simple)

Try this one: http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?tid=9364

it is simple enough and yet metrically interesting enough for our discussion.

What kind of feet are you using? I understand a villanelle needs two alternating refrains and the number of lines are set. Your refrains are not exact I'm not sure if you meant that.

I think you can do this, at least take a guess and i will tell you you're wrong.

Some sort of tetrameter and lines that are eleven syllables

[milo]

What kind of feet are you using? I understand a villanelle needs two alternating refrains and the number of lines are set. Your refrains are not exact I'm not sure if you meant that.

I think you can do this, at least take a guess and i will tell you you're wrong.

Some sort of tetrameter and lines that are eleven syllables

It actually alternates 3 - 4 - 3 which is pretty uncommon for a villanelle though 4 - 3- 4 is common enough. I always called this anapestic trimeter/tetrameter but with a common iamb sub to start and foreshortened. Recently I have heard some refer to it as amphabrics and though it lines up nicely, I am not sold.

Here is what I know of writing in meter (summed up):

1. Modern English verse is written with 4 metric choices: iambic, trochaic, anapestic, dactyllic.
2. Following are conscious acceptable subs: spondees, Pyrrhics (rare), iambs, trochees
3. Everything else is for metric analysis /not/ for writing.

Now these rules are probably not 100% accurate, but they are so close as to be usable

[Brownlie]

I think you can do this, at least take a guess and i will tell you you're wrong.

Some sort of tetrameter and lines that are eleven syllables

It actually alternates 3 - 4 - 3 which is pretty uncommon for a villanelle though 4 - 3- 4 is common enough. I always called this anapestic trimeter/tetrameter but with a common iamb sub to start and foreshortened. Recently I have heard some refer to it as amphabrics and though it lines up nicely, I am not sold.

Here is what I know of writing in meter (summed up):

1. Modern English verse is written with 4 metric choices: iambic, trochaic, anapestic, dactyllic.
2. Following are conscious acceptable subs: spondees, Pyrrhics (rare), iambs, trochees
3. Everything else is for metric analysis /not/ for writing.

Now these rules are probably not 100% accurate, but they are so close as to be usable

Thank you man, I should be paying you. . I think other forms may be for other languages or they would have to be read a certain way, but this is wikipedia inspired knowledge.

[milo]

Some sort of tetrameter and lines that are eleven syllables

It actually alternates 3 - 4 - 3 which is pretty uncommon for a villanelle though 4 - 3- 4 is common enough. I always called this anapestic trimeter/tetrameter but with a common iamb sub to start and foreshortened. Recently I have heard some refer to it as amphabrics and though it lines up nicely, I am not sold.

Here is what I know of writing in meter (summed up):

1. Modern English verse is written with 4 metric choices: iambic, trochaic, anapestic, dactyllic.
2. Following are conscious acceptable subs: spondees, Pyrrhics (rare), iambs, trochees
3. Everything else is for metric analysis /not/ for writing.

Now these rules are probably not 100% accurate, but they are so close as to be usable

Thank you man, I should be paying you.

I should point out before someone "sharpshoots" me that there are some regular meters (Alexandrines, Sprung meter) that are consistent usages of regular substituions. I don't think they should be discussed here, I just know someone is going bring it up.

Also, pay sounds nice . . .

[Brownlie]

It actually alternates 3 - 4 - 3 which is pretty uncommon for a villanelle though 4 - 3- 4 is common enough. I always called this anapestic trimeter/tetrameter but with a common iamb sub to start and foreshortened. Recently I have heard some refer to it as amphabrics and though it lines up nicely, I am not sold.

Here is what I know of writing in meter (summed up):

1. Modern English verse is written with 4 metric choices: iambic, trochaic, anapestic, dactyllic.
2. Following are conscious acceptable subs: spondees, Pyrrhics (rare), iambs, trochees
3. Everything else is for metric analysis /not/ for writing.

Now these rules are probably not 100% accurate, but they are so close as to be usable

Thank you man, I should be paying you.

I should point out before someone "sharpshoots" me that there are some regular meters (Alexandrines, Sprung meter) that are consistent usages of regular substituions. I don't think they should be discussed here, I just know someone is going bring it up.

Also, pay sounds nice . . .

Maybe someday I can repay your efforts. I think its important to point out that methods of scansion vary. In most schools all you will see is the macron and breve. I know your mentor may disagree with the simplicity of that system.

[milo]

Thank you man, I should be paying you.

I should point out before someone "sharpshoots" me that there are some regular meters (Alexandrines, Sprung meter) that are consistent usages of regular substituions. I don't think they should be discussed here, I just know someone is going bring it up.

Also, pay sounds nice . . .

Maybe someday I can repay your efforts. I think its important to point out that methods of scansion vary. In most schools all you will see is the macron and breve. I know your mentor may disagree with the simplicity of that system.

I think you are confusing scansion marks with feet

[Leanne]

According to wikipedia there are four types of disyllables the iamb, the trochaic foot, the pyrrhus, and the spondee. There are also various "trisyllables" listed.

According to wikipedia, wikipedia is not a reliable source and doesn't make anyone sound like an expert when they quote it

I'd like to see what people think in regards to poetic theory, and I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark. I am fairly new to poetry myself and I would like to see some of the newer users educate themselves so we can all start writing real poetry and learn to appreciate this art that is often misunderstood. What forms work and why?

I can't believe nobody's thought of this before.

Oh yes, that's right, there's a whole forum for it.

I'd like people to start considering what they are doing when they write so they are not just taking stabs in the dark

And I'd like fewer generalisations about what people do and don't know.

[Brownlie]

I should point out before someone "sharpshoots" me that there are some regular meters (Alexandrines, Sprung meter) that are consistent usages of regular substituions. I don't think they should be discussed here, I just know someone is going bring it up.

Also, pay sounds nice . . .

Maybe someday I can repay your efforts. I think its important to point out that methods of scansion vary. In most schools all you will see is the macron and breve. I know your mentor may disagree with the simplicity of that system.

I think you are confusing scansion marks with feet

There is definitely some confusion on my part. What I am trying to get at is that some may argue a binary system of stressed vs. Unstressed is too simplistic.

[rayheinrich]

Sometimes I use trochaic, but I prefer iambic as it's easy and goes
great with English. Also, since my poems don't usually use a fixed
number of feet*, I find that iambic provides a better connection
between lines and is easier to move in and out of when mixing
free verse stanzas with iambic ones.

*Of course, when writing poems about cats, I religiously adhere to four feet.)