Libya

[srijantje]

I'm seriously distrought this morning by the news of attack on Libya,not so much by the fact as well of the awfull double standards displayed by the international"community"once again.Sudan[darfur]nothing,Yemen,nothing,Palestine,nothing,Bahrein,nothing,to name a few.
What do you think?Is it oil again?Or what?

[srijantje]

no,i don't think that's the reason behind it,too many instances in recent history when lots of people were murdered by their own governments and nothing was done about it,to name a few more,Ivory coast ,Congo,yugoslavia took years

[srijantje]

yes,Libya has oil,conveniently near europe

[srijantje]

you could say the same about successive american presidents,maybe not ira,but far worse

[billy]

what do people think of the no foot on the ground policy.
personlly i can't see any difference between a plane firing a rocket and a soldier firing a bullet....apart from the damage both do

i don't think it will be a protracted war. (i know it's not classed as a war) but it could back fire depending who get power should gadafi go away

[srijantje]

it's gonna be a bloodbath one way or the other

[thethingy]

what do people think of the no foot on the ground policy.
personlly i can't see any difference between a plane firing a rocket and a soldier firing a bullet....apart from the damage both do

i don't think it will be a protracted war. (i know it's not classed as a war) but it could back fire depending who get power should gadafi go away

the west has a long history of occupying these African places, might be to do with that, Libya has a nasty habit of fighting back on your soil though (Locharbie, London, IRA, etc) I think that's why the US wants out so soon.

On paper it should be a quick thing but in reality I think this will drag on and on as these peoples are basically nomads and just move tents for the night so the planes cant get them.

[billy]

i think they'll pull out as soon as they can (onece they (cameron) get some kudos )
and allow another set of bastards to put the people under the cosh.

[srijantje]

hurray to germany for pulling out

[billy]

you could but you couldn't say the usa was a totalitarian state run by a megalomaniac
who openly funds terrorists whilst torturing and persecuting his own people if they don't suck his metaphorical penis.
at least the west fund terrorists in secret. i honestly don't think the usa can be compared with gadaffi.

gadafi is the pimple on everyones bottom that needs bursting.

the sad thing is, whoever gets in power maybe be the same or worse. thats always a possibility.

[srijantje]

no ,you can't compare the usa with khadafi,they've got much more blood on their hands,they rule for 4 or 8 years,kill thousands and then retire ,while dictators stay on until they get their come uppence in the end
i really can't see the difference between killing your"own"people or people all around the world,dead is dead

[addy]

They've been wanting to get Gaddafi for a long time I imagine. With the climate in the middle east potentially shifting, they seized the opportunity.... that and the oil of course. It's always at least partially about oil.

[srijantje]

there were 2 libya threads for some reason,so i merged them//mod

[billy]

now i'm confused hehe, but thanks .

in answer to your opening post sj;
i think it's mainly humanitarian. (the no fly zone) the pressure from the international community for the usa to run things was huge. now the usa are passing it to the un. that said they definitely want gadafi out and a regime change to take place. the oil is an obvious reason for that. another is that after the protest it will become a breeding ground for terrorists, the way it used to be.
the other point is china, it has no role or stake in libya. in nigeria, sudan and other places china plays a role in their industry (oil, mining etc) and as such china would use a veto.

[billy]

no ,you can't compare the usa with khadafi,they've got much more blood on their hands,they rule for 4 or 8 years,kill thousands and then retire ,while dictators stay on until they get their come uppence in the end
i really can't see the difference between killing your"own"people or people all around the world,dead is dead

the difference is huge, the people pick the american leader. and if he kills in their name it's their fault as much as his.
in libya no one picks anyone, the just do as they're told or have their testicles torn off.

somehow i think gadifi really would want to rule the world if he got the chance.

[srijantje]

what's the difference if you have the choice to vote for 1 murderer or the other?

[billy]

the ideology of killing one person to save another is one of the foundation of all caring societies
in truth it looks like more have been saved than killed in the libyan conflict.
it also looks like some who were oppressed at may have a chance at least of some kind of freedoms.
i heard rumour that this could be a drawn out affair but i hope it isn't. lets also remember the majority of libyans (who want freedom)
asked the world for a no fly zone and assistance.

[srijantje]

if you blow up all his weapons,that means a de facto regime change,let's stop being hypocritical,the coalition threw their weight behind the opposition,who want to get rid of khadafi,ergo,regime change

[billy]

secretary of foreign affairs in the uk (haigue) said they ultimately want a regime change.
of course they coalition want a regime change, they just can't say they're doing what they're doing
to oust gadfi, they have top say they're protecting the people.
while i think it's a good thing i don't think they should beat about the bush in how they say what they do.

[billy]

there's talk of giving arms or funding arms for the rebels, i'm not sure that's a good idea though.
some are saying it looks like the un could be in it for the long haul, if cameron is still there come the elections he'll be screwed.