see jane run

[Lizzie]

she thinks I love her
I don't
but I'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods

I don't like em young
I don't like anyone

but I can get her
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me

—such a good girl—

I love to watch her
run

Capped the I's and changed the last two lines to Todd's suggestion, 5/11/17

[Todd]

Hi Lizzie,

Nice to see you workshoping a NaPM piece. 

This has a disturbing narrator in its ambiguity--it's like the themes touched on by Nabokov but given some of the details obscured we can't be completely sure.

The title works both how the ending circles back on it and for the early Dick and Jane books which slightly establish age.

she thinks i love her--This is a good opening line. There's tension and drama. I realize the lowercase i is a stylistic choice. It isn't one I particularly favor but I can live with it. To me draws too much attention to itself, but I realize it's deliberate and I can respect the right to make those sorts of choices.
i don't --Good follow up line after the break.
but i'm cradling--Cradling is a nice choice. It's a nurturing word though again it is at odds with what the narrator is really thinking and doing. It's this tension between what we perceive and what is actually happening that is at the heart of this piece.
that belief—--Good line break on belief. Because that's thematically what this about.
it'll make touching her easier--Creepy and a good strophe break to give us tension and unfolding horror in the white space.

she's nine but smells like thirteen—--This is where I truly get the Lolita read. This recasting of the child as seductress. 
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters --budding is another good word along with the product use above to sort of build an internal dialogue rationalizing the moment.
to mask the musk of first periods--Again rationalizing that "Jane" is older than she seems.

i don't like em young--Unreliable narrator justification, wonderful break and next line
i don't like anyone

but i can get her--predatory
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me --more about power and control

—such a good girl—--The dog imagery and this line are chilling.

i love--Good circling back on the opening. Gives the piece a sense of completeness
to watch her run--While I like the way you have the ending, I will simply offer an alternative. Maybe,

i love to watch her
run

It's May. Let the workshopping begin. This one was written for day one, NaPM 2017)

The content is disturbing no question. I think you executed this idea well. I hope the comments help.

Best,

Todd

[vagabond]

she thinks i love her                            
i don't                                     hah, but is that true or denial.
but i'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier         the verse as a whole is creepy. the thought if and then how the subject could have made the girl love him/her. 

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods

i don't like em young                i perceive this as a break, as if the subject is waking from his dream, trying to fight back desire
i don't like anyone                                      by lying to himself, helplessly. and you could not have put it in a more essential way.

but i can get her
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me                         

—such a good girl—

i love
to watch her run

It's May. Let the workshopping begin. This one was written for day one, NaPM 2017)

so.. the workings of a child molestor. the two longer verses are so descriptive that i feel as if watching it from inside the subject´s head trailing along the obsession.

 does the girl run to or from him in the end? PM me if you want to answer but don´t want to reveal secrets

anyway, i don´t see how this poem could improve by change, i think it is good as it is.

[burrealist]

she thinks i love her
i don't
but i'm cradling My thought here was of a parent crying, trying to take care of their child. But this isn't the theme carried on. My other thought was of a relationship. Obviously I made too quick of an assumption.
So I wonder, what is cradling telling us?
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier Blunt.

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters Shit and gift make a nice contrast.
to mask the musk of first periods A contrast is conveyed here, but it isn't as strong as the first one.

i don't like em young What is this supposed to mean? I guess this pervert is willing to control anything.
i don't like anyone Well, why not? What went wrong in your childhood to turn you into this? Or are you simply sociopathic?

but i can get her This is a chilling line. It's confident and disconcerting.
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me

—such a good girl—

i love
to watch her run This end may be somewhat vague. If this person loves the thrill of a chase, simply watching someone run won't cut it. It's like watching your adorable dog play fetch. That thought is different from what you've been speaking of.

It's May. Let the workshopping begin. This one was written for day one, NaPM 2017)

I like the blunt nature. Blunt is my thing, I like it more than subtlety (even if I've complimented subtleties written by other people). My thought is to expand on the perversion at the end. 

---

I like Tom's suggestion for the ending.

[Lizzie]

This has a disturbing narrator in its ambiguity--it's like the themes touched on by Nabokov but given some of the details obscured we can't be completely sure. Good disturbing or bad disturbing? Curious about the ambiguity piece...are you thinking I need more details like place and time, etc.?


she thinks i love her--This is a good opening line. There's tension and drama. I realize the lowercase i is a stylistic choice. It isn't one I particularly favor but I can live with it. To me draws too much attention to itself, but I realize it's deliberate and I can respect the right to make those sorts of choices. Fixed.
i don't --Good follow up line after the break.
but i'm cradling--Cradling is a nice choice. It's a nurturing word though again it is at odds with what the narrator is really thinking and doing. It's this tension between what we perceive and what is actually happening that is at the heart of this piece. Yes, the building of the lie is paramount.
that belief—--Good line break on belief. Because that's thematically what this about.
it'll make touching her easier--Creepy and a good strophe break to give us tension and unfolding horror in the white space. That's a good point about the white pace. Should I put a period at the end? Should I add in punctuation?

she's nine but smells like thirteen—--This is where I truly get the Lolita read. This recasting of the child as seductress. Yeah, that is disturbing, eh?
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters --budding is another good word along with the product use above to sort of build an internal dialogue rationalizing the moment.
to mask the musk of first periods--Again rationalizing that "Jane" is older than she seems. Ok, so what do you think about that, the rationalization? A sociopath might not question the rightness of their behavior.

i don't like em young--Unreliable narrator justification, wonderful break and next line
i don't like anyone

but i can get her--predatory
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me --more about power and control Yeah, I wanted this to be the other central theme. Is that coming across strong enough?

—such a good girl—--The dog imagery and this line are chilling.

i love--Good circling back on the opening. Gives the piece a sense of completeness
to watch her run--While I like the way you have the ending, I will simply offer an alternative. Maybe,

i love to watch her
run


Yes, liked your ending and changed it. Thank you for the valuable critique, Todd.

---

she thinks i love her                            
i don't                                     hah, but is that true or denial. Well.....you've stumped me a bit on this one! Could be some denial. Yes. However, I'm not sure that a sociopath CAN love, not in the way that we normally think of it. Certainly not in a way that isn't 100% self serving.
but i'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier         the verse as a whole is creepy. the thought if and then how the subject could have made the girl love him/her.  Right, so you're wanting some more details too? I'll think on that and see what comes to me. The poem is a little sparse and I do feel like it's missing something, but I don't know what to add. To quote Sabrina, "More isn't always better, Linus, sometimes it's just more."

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods

i don't like em young                i perceive this as a break, as if the subject is waking from his dream, trying to fight back desire Perhaps. I actually like that there's some variability around how the narrator is perceived, as long as the lies and the power/control dynamic are preserved. That's what's essential to me. Is the question of whether the N truly loves the girl or not bothersome to the read?
i don't like anyone                                      by lying to himself, helplessly. and you could not have put it in a more essential way. That's very interesting to me that you view this bit as the lie, when I view this as the central moment of honesty. But, again, I'm not disturbed by that interpretation in the least.

but i can get her
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me                         

—such a good girl—

i love
to watch her run

It's May. Let the workshopping begin. This one was written for day one, NaPM 2017)

does the girl run to or from him in the end? I intended for it to be read that she's running toward because of the "heels to me" line, but....

Thanks so much for the critique, vagabond.

---

she thinks i love her
i don't
but i'm cradling My thought here was of a parent crying, trying to take care of their child. But this isn't the theme carried on. My other thought was of a relationship. Obviously I made too quick of an assumption. 
So I wonder, what is cradling telling us? How do YOU take it, that's what I'm curious about. Authorial intent is not so relevant to me as reader interpretation. I want to know what's coming across to the reader, and then I can tweak things to realize my intention.
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier Blunt.

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters Shit and gift make a nice contrast.
to mask the musk of first periods A contrast is conveyed here, but it isn't as strong as the first one.

i don't like em young What is this supposed to mean? Hearing your thoughts would be more helpful. 

I guess this pervert is willing to control anything. Bingo.

i don't like anyone Well, why not? What went wrong in your childhood to turn you into this? Are you telling me that you would like to see more back-story in the poem? Am I interpreting this correctly?

Or are you simply sociopathic?

Well, let's be perfectly clear here: the narrator is not me.

but i can get her This is a chilling line. It's confident and disconcerting.
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
i snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me

—such a good girl—

i love
to watch her run This end may be somewhat vague. If this person loves the thrill of a chase, simply watching someone run won't cut it. It's like watching your adorable dog play fetch. That thought is different from what you've been speaking of.

I'll give some thought to the ending. There's no chasing involved, though -- it's the manipulation of the other that's central. The process is called "grooming." It's how a predator gets a child to trust them.

It's May. Let the workshopping begin. This one was written for day one, NaPM 2017)

I like the blunt nature. Blunt is my thing, I like it more than subtlety (even if I've complimented subtleties written by other people). My thought is to expand on the perversion at the end. 

---

I like Tom's suggestion for the ending. I liked Todd's ending too, so that's been changed. Again, I'll think on the ending. Thanks for the response, burr.

[vagabond]

Hey Lizzie, since i can´t get the quotes right i ll use colours.


she thinks i love her                            
i don't                                     hah, but is that true or denial. Well.....you've stumped me a bit on this one! Could be some denial. Yes. However, I'm not sure that a sociopath CAN love, not in the way that we normally think of it. Certainly not in a way that isn't 100% self serving.

yes, it isn´t love when it´s self-serving. guess it´s impossible to define love anyway..

but i'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier         the verse as a whole is creepy. the thought if and then how the subject could have made the girl love him/her.  Right, so you're wanting some more details too? I'll think on that and see what comes to me. The poem is a little sparse and I do feel like it's missing something, but I don't know what to add. To quote Sabrina, "More isn't always better, Linus, sometimes it's just more." no, i don´t think it needs more details, at least to me that would only be destracting of the things this poem makes me think about.


i don't like em young                i perceive this as a break, as if the subject is waking from his dream, trying to fight back desire Perhaps. I actually like that there's some variability around how the narrator is perceived, as long as the lies and the power/control dynamic are preserved. That's what's essential to me. Is the question of whether the N truly loves the girl or not bothersome to the read?   not at all! i think it´s interesting


i don't like anyone                                      by lying to himself, helplessly. and you could not have put it in a more essential way. That's very interesting to me that you view this bit as the lie, when I view this as the central moment of honesty. But, again, I'm not disturbed by that interpretation in the least.
i think nobody can state "i don´t like anyone" and truly mean it. no one is born a sociopath. difficult topic, defending would be wrong, but trying to understand not.

[nibbed]

Hi Lizzie, okay this is a genius poem, wow. My first inclination was that of an abuser, but then after careful examination, I went with what was written instead of what my mind first steered toward because of the influence of the news and what I let into my head space. There has been a lot written lately about female teachers abusing their students and so my head naturally went in a direction of abuse.

Now I am thinking something completely different, a coach, perhaps. A track coach, but a male coach, not a female coach. I was disturbed by the word "heels", first a dog but then imagined a runner in a starting position. A female would never say "to mask the musk of first periods". So I am thinking this is a male track coach with a young female athlete, but it is a bit disturbing he knows the brand names of the products she uses, unless he has a daughter of like age at home. "It'll make it easier touching her" may refer to when it is necessary to touch in order to show proper stance or position.




she thinks I love her                                                              
I don't                                                                                        
but I'm cradling                                                                       
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier                                             

she's nine but smells like thirteen—                                   
strawberry Lip Smackers                                                                             
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—                                             
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods                                          
                                                                                                      
I don't like em young                                                                
I don't like anyone                                                                      

but I can get her                                                                          
to perform on command                                                             
like she's hypnotized—                                                                
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me                                                                      

—such a good girl—

I love to watch her
run                                                                                                

[67eager]

You very effectively imitate the disturbing voice of a paedophile. On first read I really felt disturbed, which says a lot about its effectiveness. I salute your bravery for writing about a very taboo subject such as this one. The ambiguity of who is talking is another aspect of the poem which I really appreciate. I often ask myself whether the person speaking is a practicing molestor, or merely someone contemplating the act. I guess there's no real difference internally... Which might be what you are trying to say.


she thinks I love her Very haunting opening line. Reading this a second time seems to suggest that it is simply lust that the narrator feels for the girl.
I don't
but I'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier You dramatically shift the motive and the feel of the poem here. The narrator could be easily mistaken for a normal, good person. This changes everything completely. Well done

she's nine but smells like thirteen— Here you seem to intensify the true identity of the narrator
strawberry Lip Smackers -
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods -I got spine chills reading this line.

I don't like em young The 'em to me seems to mark the total unravelling of the narrators Identity. By now the reader should have no sympathy for the narrator.
I don't like anyone

but I can get her
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me This line suggests to me that the narrator is more enticed by the power which molesting a child makes him feel, instead of any physical attraction. It is clearly well thought out.

—such a good girl— This is the most disturbing line of the whole poem I think. Its confinement between two blocks of empty blank space also amplifies its effectiveness

I love to watch her
run  Very great ending line.

Capped the I's and changed the last two lines to Todd's suggestion, 5/11/17

[/quote]

[Lizzie]

yes, it isn´t love when it´s self-serving. guess it´s impossible to define love anyway.. Yeah, I guess that's where the conversation leads, to the nature of love. I have no answers, but I'm glad it brought us to this conversation. 

no, i don´t think it needs more details, at least to me that would only be destracting of the things this poem makes me think about.  So, I did add a few bits in to, hopefully, sort some of the ambiguity tripping people up -- please let me know if this derails the read.

i think nobody can state "i don´t like anyone" and truly mean it. You're right. There has to be something human inside of everybody.

---

Hi Lizzie, okay this is a genius poem, wow. My first inclination was that of an abuser, but then after careful examination, I went with what was written instead of what my mind first steered toward because of the influence of the news and what I let into my head space. There has been a lot written lately about female teachers abusing their students and so my head naturally went in a direction of abuse.

Now I am thinking something completely different, a coach, perhaps. A track coach, but a male coach, not a female coach. I was disturbed by the word "heels", first a dog but then imagined a runner in a starting position. A female would never say "to mask the musk of first periods". So I am thinking this is a male track coach with a young female athlete, but it is a bit disturbing he knows the brand names of the products she uses, unless he has a daughter of like age at home. "It'll make it easier touching her" may refer to when it is necessary to touch in order to show proper stance or position.
                                                                                          

Thanks for reading, nibbed! What I'm hearing from you is that there's too much ambiguity around the details of the story, yes? I think this one is always going to have room for the reader to project people, places into the story -- it's never going to be specific. But, I don't want the reader to be flailing around for something solid.

Thanks again for the feedback.

---

The ambiguity of who is talking is another aspect of the poem which I really appreciate. I often ask myself whether the person speaking is a practicing molestor, or merely someone contemplating the act. I guess there's no real difference internally... Which might be what you are trying to say.

That's an interesting distinction, and I can't honestly say if it makes a difference whether the predator has ever attained the goal or not. My sense is that predators will always hunt, whether they bring home a squirrel or an antelope. The mindset is the same. But, I'm not a molester, so I don't know for sure.

I'm hoping that I'm not botching the voice horribly. I'm beginning to wonder if we can ever authentically portray the voice of someone who is so "other."

But, thanks for taking the time to interact with the poem -- it was very helpful.

[vagabond]

i actually think the previous version is better, because it focused more on the subject´s inside.
but that´s just me. both are good.

[Lizzie]

i actually think the previous version is better, because it focused more on the subject´s inside.
but that´s just me. both are good.

Thanks for coming back, vagabond. I've gone back to the original.

[billy]

i can in minutia see how someone could confuse grooming with dog keeping

this however is quite haunting. i know adults who are still as pets due to such horrible actions. the I don't like couplet shows the lack of emotion i can only presume doesn't exist. what really hits home with the piece is the ownership of the child by the adult and the brazenness and pride shown. a horrible poem indeed but a good one. no in-depth as it strikes a chord in me. if i dwell on the pem it elicits a tear or two.

she thinks I love her
I don't
but I'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods

I don't like em young
I don't like anyone

but I can get her
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me

—such a good girl—

I love to watch her
run

Capped the I's and changed the last two lines to Todd's suggestion, 5/11/17

[Achebe]

she thinks I love her
I don't ..... nice pause 
but I'm cradling ..... I like how the short stubby lines build suspense 
that belief—
it'll make touching her easier .....eases the tension of the short stubby lines. Explains he above. Leads on to the next strophe. Nice.

she's nine but smells like thirteen—.....rationalisation 
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periods. ...the subtlety of this passage escaped me till someone pointed out that it's not "normal". 

I don't like em young
I don't like anyone

but I can get her 
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me .... "heels" is a nice choice of word here 

—such a good girl— ..... nice use of em dashes

I love to watch her
run ...... great sonics. The soft syllables are like a tiger walking quietly up to look at its prey  

Capped the I's and changed the last two lines to Todd's suggestion, 5/11/17

I like the ambiguity behind who the narrator is - stepdad,

[burrealist]

Here, I'll attempt to answer your questions. 


So I wonder, what is cradling telling us? How do YOU take it, that's what I'm curious about. Authorial intent is not so relevant to me as reader interpretation. I want to know what's coming across to the reader, and then I can tweak things to realize my intention.  

What I now take from it is that there is some tension with the word "cradling" worth exploring. This person doesn't want to cradle her; this person wants to abuse her.

i don't like em young What is this supposed to mean? Hearing your thoughts would be more helpful.  

[b]You wrote that the narrator doesn't like them young, but the narrator also states "she's nine but smells like thirteen". I think that suggests some fetish for teenagers, so this person isn't completely devoid of desire for youth. [/b]

i don't like anyone Well, why not? What went wrong in your childhood to turn you into this?  Are you telling me that you would like to see more back-story in the poem? Am I interpreting this correctly?

[b]This was a general thought, mostly. But I believe since this is a person, this person isn't purely evil. So maybe a backstory to develop a little compassion for this character could be helpful.

Or are you simply sociopathic? [/b]

Well, let's be perfectly clear here: the narrator is not me.

Yes, I know.   

[tectak]

she thinks I love herI am getting used to the "promise of more to come" openers as a dramatic device but I am often let down by the follow through. Fortunately (or unfortunately), THIS opener IS a whole stanza, so the ecapsulation of the though process has a start, a muse, and a stop. Why is this possibly an ufortunate opener? Well, it is but ONE sentence as it is written...but as it is presented you chop it up to volumise what in fact is a stark singleton. I do not think that it does anything except lengthen the piece in  a downwards direction to no great advantage.  
I don't
but I'm cradling
that belief—
it'll make touching her easierThe "it" is a long way from home...I think you refer to her belief which the character believes she has...er...by cradling, come to...hmmmm...believe? What I am saying is what I always say...give me proof by imagery and by metaphor...in other words, more words. Get rid of as many instances of "it" as possible.

she's nine but smells like thirteen—
strawberry Lip Smackers
and Love's Baby Soft perfume—Excellent. Truly pin-point accuracy in observation. The imagery is there and the interesting concept of "age smells". Boys of nine smelt of stale farts and fruit gums when I was a boy of nine smelling of stale farts and fruit gums. I can remember clearly when girls decided that if boys continued to smell the way they did then the time had come to find their own smell. About this time I stopped farting around girls and dropped the fruit gums in favour of menthol boiled sweets. It worked fot me. Very well done.
the shit parents gift their budding daughters
to mask the musk of first periodsCrikey...I didn't know that...I thought that was how girls smelt at around twelve

I don't like em young
I don't like anyoneNot clear. Not germane. Not necessary. We already believe we have a pervert here BUT if this feeling of isolationism is a trait then more detail please. Again, I feel short changed by the minimalism. There is a glaring paradox in these two lines in that "I don't like 'em young.." by implication means you like'em old (er); but then you follow up with "I don't like anyone". Whilst there is a great sense of veracity given to the character I feel that as the reader I am becoming the psychiatrist/therapist; at which point you may ask me " Do you feel bad about being a therapist". Harrrumphhhh.

but I can get herthis is the first and only effective use of purposeful (as against stylised) enjambment. Can you not see how effective the duality you create is....especially when compared to:
 " I don't
but I'm cradling
that belief"
to perform on command
like she's hypnotized—
I snap my fingers
and smile
as she heels to me

—such a good girl—

I love to watch her
run Great ending. Worthy.

Capped the I's and changed the last two lines to Todd's suggestion, 5/11/17

Hi Lizzie.
 This is a triumph of concept over construct...and I rather like it. There is no quarter given in translation (which I do not and will not do)  because it is very much "in your face", unless written by a dog. Anything is possible in these forums.
Poetically...that word which dare not speak its name...you are a minimalist in this one. Perhaps there is a reason for this but I'm damned if I can see it. The starkness and darkness interplay works but only up to a point...and that point is where the intent of the character becomes somewhat lost in his (?) own musings. The reader gets left behind before fully appreciating the construction of the piece, though appreciation is probably an old fashioned requisite of poetry. For me, though, the lack of credibility is a real let-down. I really want to believe in the character but the writer, with all the simplicity of ownership, keeps breaking through. In other words, I need more lit up words to carry me through the darkness and more metaphor, imagery and poetry to fill me in the starkness of the thing.  
Line by line should be taken to enforce my humble opinion, not as a seperate critique.
 Best,
 tectak

[Lizzie]

i can in minutia see how someone could confuse grooming with dog keeping  

this however is quite haunting. i know adults who are still as pets due to such horrible actions. the I don't like couplet shows the lack of emotion i can only presume doesn't exist. what really hits home with the piece is the ownership of the child by the adult and the brazenness and pride shown. a horrible poem indeed but a good one. no in-depth as it strikes a chord in me. if i dwell on the pem it elicits a tear or two.  

Yes, you're right about the grooming bit -- it's a little like training.

Thanks for letting me know what resonated with you. It's a difficult piece, no question.

---

Achebe: thanks for taking the time. I'm always interested to hear what you have to say about the sonics.

burrealist: thanks for coming back and clarifying your points. All is taken into consideration.

---

tectak: much to think about in your critique, many thanks! It's unfortunate that the piece is lacking in poetry, when that should be a prerequisite....

I have a terrible time adding things in after the initial write. I shall keep trying. Thank you.

[Lizzie]

For me, though, the lack of credibility is a real let-down. I really want to believe in the character but the writer, with all the simplicity of ownership, keeps breaking through.

Just so I make sure I'm tracking, were there other moments beside the "I don't know" couplet where you felt authorial intrusion?

[tectak]

For me, though, the lack of credibility is a real let-down. I really want to believe in the character but the writer, with all the simplicity of ownership, keeps breaking through.

Just so I make sure I'm tracking, were there other moments beside the "I don't know" couplet where you felt authorial intrusion?

hi lizzie,
authorial intrusion....well, I guess it is a structural  thing combined with a sense of restraint. Thing is, if you make the "form" of a poem part of the whole you have already stamped authorship all over it...not a problem in 3rd person writing but in 1st person it becomes of import. Sticking with this theme, the 1st person write appears to limit the character to giving not too much away...there is no confession and this seems to be a restriction imposed by you, understandably, as author AND surrogate character. So what you have written has become sanitised by your own moral standpoint. In that sense, and I can feel the control, there is a cred gap. If you can write unrestrained confessional stuff in 1st person, do it. We know it is just poetry...at least, that is the rule.
Best,
tectak

[Lizzie]

For me, though, the lack of credibility is a real let-down. I really want to believe in the character but the writer, with all the simplicity of ownership, keeps breaking through.

Just so I make sure I'm tracking, were there other moments beside the "I don't know" couplet where you felt authorial intrusion?

hi lizzie,
authorial intrusion....well, I guess it is a structural  thing combined with a sense of restraint. Thing is, if you make the "form" of a poem part of the whole you have already stamped authorship all over it...not a problem in 3rd person writing but in 1st person it becomes of import. Sticking with this theme, the 1st person write appears to limit the character to giving not too much away...there is no confession and this seems to be a restriction imposed by you, understandably, as author AND surrogate character. So what you have written has become sanitised by your own moral standpoint. In that sense, and I can feel the control, there is a cred gap. If you can write unrestrained confessional stuff in 1st person, do it. We know it is just poetry...at least, that is the rule.
Best,
tectak

Thank you tectak, that's very helpful. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to accurately imitate the voice of a predator, not being one myself. But, I don't really have a poem for any other voice. So, it's this or bust.

I have no doubt that you can feel control. You're a sensitive reader to point that out. I thought that the first stanza and the last lines included confession, though -- it talks directly about the manipulation and the joy in controlling others. That's primarily what I wanted the character to confess to. Are you looking for the character to confess to specific actions?

[tectak]

Just so I make sure I'm tracking, were there other moments beside the "I don't know" couplet where you felt authorial intrusion?

hi lizzie,
authorial intrusion....well, I guess it is a structural  thing combined with a sense of restraint. Thing is, if you make the "form" of a poem part of the whole you have already stamped authorship all over it...not a problem in 3rd person writing but in 1st person it becomes of import. Sticking with this theme, the 1st person write appears to limit the character to giving not too much away...there is no confession and this seems to be a restriction imposed by you, understandably, as author AND surrogate character. So what you have written has become sanitised by your own moral standpoint. In that sense, and I can feel the control, there is a cred gap. If you can write unrestrained confessional stuff in 1st person, do it. We know it is just poetry...at least, that is the rule.
Best,
tectak

Thank you tectak, that's very helpful. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to accurately imitate the voice of a predator, not being one myself. But, I don't really have a poem for any other voice. So, it's this or bust.

I have no doubt that you can feel control. You're a sensitive reader to point that out. I thought that the first stanza and the last lines included confession, though -- it talks directly about the manipulation and the joy in controlling others. That's primarily what I wanted the character to confess to. Are you looking for the character to confess to specific actions?

It is a simple as this lizzie. It MADE touching her easier. You get my point? It is small but significant.
Best,
tectak