kith

[milo]

Version 2: switched to a more consistent meter, made a couple word changes, not sure if it really is any improvement, may actually be worse.

Kith

I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow.

Your song steals the wind from the low
that mourns with the bleat of the lamb. My brother,
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow;
the thick articulate stutter. Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

We hide away hide away flow
and slough through the muck and the peat , we slather.
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away, quietly pine, we gather
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow
and whisper the sough and the scatter .
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the brook of your brow.



original



I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow.

Your sing steals the wind from the low
that laughs with the broken down lamb. My brother
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow
the thick articulate stutter, a stick. Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

We hide away hide away flow
and slough through the muck and the slather.
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away quiet, we gather
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow
and think that in time it won't matter.
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the bough of your brow.

milo

[softlyfalling]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

[Crepuscule]

A vilanelle... impressive.

[milo]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

It is only required when paired with neither btw.

That is, of course, the last thing I would be worried about here.
Thanks for the attention though.

milo

[softlyfalling]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

It is only required when paired with neither btw.

That is, of course, the last thing I would be worried about here.
Thanks for the attention though.

milo

Oh yes, of COURSE!
You are too too welcome:
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

[milo]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

It is only required when paired with neither btw.

That is, of course, the last thing I would be worried about here.
Thanks for the attention though.

milo

Oh yes, of COURSE!
You are too too welcome:
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

In all our examples so far, we’ve used “nor” to indicate a negative state that continues after something else negative happens. However, when the second negative item is a noun, adjective, or adverb phrase (4), you should use “or” to continue the negative thought because according to Bryan Garner “the initial negative carries through to all the enumerated elements” (5). For example, when you use the word “not,” the structure “not A or B” is correct. You’d have to say, “He is not interested in math or science”; “He is not interested in math nor science” won’t work. Likewise, “She didn’t speak slowly or clearly” has a better ring to it than “She didn’t speak slowly nor clearly.”

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/whe...e-nor.aspx

please bring your new-found grammatical knowledge out of the critical forums.

Thanks in advance.

Have a nice day.

milo

---

A vilanelle... impressive.

Yah, the "beamish" got me in the mood, I guess.

milo

[tmanzano]

I am impressed by a stong poem within stucture. I find this immensely difficult to do. I am to scattered and erratic to be confined to a discipline. Bravo.

[softlyfalling]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

It is only required when paired with neither btw.

That is, of course, the last thing I would be worried about here.
Thanks for the attention though.

milo

Oh yes, of COURSE!
You are too too welcome:
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

In all our examples so far, we’ve used “nor” to indicate a negative state that continues after something else negative happens. However, when the second negative item is a noun, adjective, or adverb phrase (4), you should use “or” to continue the negative thought because according to Bryan Garner “the initial negative carries through to all the enumerated elements” (5). For example, when you use the word “not,” the structure “not A or B” is correct. You’d have to say, “He is not interested in math or science”; “He is not interested in math nor science” won’t work. Likewise, “She didn’t speak slowly or clearly” has a better ring to it than “She didn’t speak slowly nor clearly.”

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/whe...e-nor.aspx

please bring your new-found grammatical knowledge out of the critical forums.

Thanks in advance.

Have a nice day.



milo

OK, Milo...I surrender. This was getting tedious anyway, once the fire in my Irish blood ceased to boil.
Vilanelles would seem to be the perfect form for chanelling chaos into structure because it has repetition in the structure. I will let the form do a wicked dance in my head temporarily as I consider attempting to write one...
any advice? In advance, so to speak?

[milo]

nor (nɔr; unstressed nər)

conj.
1. (used in negative phrases, esp. after neither, to introduce the second member in a series, or any subsequent member): Neither he nor I will be there. They won't wait for you, nor for me, nor for anybody.
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

It is only required when paired with neither btw.

That is, of course, the last thing I would be worried about here.
Thanks for the attention though.

milo

Oh yes, of COURSE!
You are too too welcome:
2. (used to continue the force of a negative, as not, no, never, etc., occurring in a preceding clause): I never saw him again, nor did I regret it.

In all our examples so far, we’ve used “nor” to indicate a negative state that continues after something else negative happens. However, when the second negative item is a noun, adjective, or adverb phrase (4), you should use “or” to continue the negative thought because according to Bryan Garner “the initial negative carries through to all the enumerated elements” (5). For example, when you use the word “not,” the structure “not A or B” is correct. You’d have to say, “He is not interested in math or science”; “He is not interested in math nor science” won’t work. Likewise, “She didn’t speak slowly or clearly” has a better ring to it than “She didn’t speak slowly nor clearly.”

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/whe...e-nor.aspx

please bring your new-found grammatical knowledge out of the critical forums.

Thanks in advance.

Have a nice day.



milo

OK, Milo...I surrender. This was getting tedious anyway, once the fire in my Irish blood ceased to boil.
Vilanelles would seem to be the perfect form for chanelling chaos into structure because it has repetition in the structure. I will let the form do a wicked dance in my head temporarily as I consider attempting to write one...
any advice? In advance, so to speak?

Don't let the form be a prison, make it a gift of naturally evolving refrains.
Don't worry about what you want to /say/, the Greeks already said it all 2,000 years ago, find fresh ways to use words that you have never heard before and let them fall to the paper.

Have fun.

You didn't even mention what you thought or worked about the villanelle here.

milo

---

I am impressed by a stong poem within stucture. I find this immensely difficult to do. I am to scattered and erratic to be confined to a discipline. Bravo.

Thank you.
This one is still /quite/ raw as I just wrote it so it still needs a bit of work.

milo

[Leanne]

I am not the rook or the crow, -- the ors are correct, this is a line ball call for the writer to make as nor would also be correct; however, nor would sound less pleasing
or the intricate broach at your throat. A feather -- brooch, unless this is a deliberate pun but I'm not sure that would work
to rest in the brook of your brow. -- unusual to use a sight rhyme in a villanelle, but it definitely works

Your sing steals the wind from the low -- playing with parts of speech can be effective but in my mind I want low to go with cattle -- jury's still out on sing as a noun
that laughs with the broken down lamb. My brother -- a comma here?
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow -- I think this needs end punctuation
the thick articulate stutter, a stick. Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

We hide away hide away flow -- love this line
and slough through the muck and the slather. -- again, not sure about slather as a noun, though I like the near-rhyme
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away quiet, we gather -- but I do like loam as a verb, lovely!
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow -- I lose the meter here -- sorrow is a feminine ending and it throws the rhymes out quite badly to my ear, I'd suggest replacing it
and think that in time it won't matter. -- think is weak and this line seems a bit of a filler
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the bough of your brow.

milo

I love to see people play with grammatical structures and put words in unexpected places -- sometimes they work, sometimes they're just a bit weird but obviously that will depend on the reader and the connotations the reader brings to the text. Your second repetend works in a ghazal-like fashion and this coupled with the asymmetrical lines gives the villanelle a looser structure, which I think is effective in conjunction with your grammatical playfulness. The pastoral images are quite at odds with the disturbed nature of the themes running through this, which again is an interesting effect. Rooks and crows to me are associated with winter, death and battles, but are also guardians. There is a dualistic nature to this entire poem that is worth exploring, and definitely worth many more reads.

[milo]

I am not the rook or the crow, -- the ors are correct, this is a line ball call for the writer to make as nor would also be correct; however, nor would sound less pleasing
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather -- brooch, unless this is a deliberate pun but I'm not sure that would work

and, now I post-edited and no one knows it so you just look silly. hahaah . . erm.

to rest in the brook of your brow. -- unusual to use a sight rhyme in a villanelle, but it definitely works

yes, I took some huge liberties with the form, it is what enticed me to write it at all. Hopefully you know I /could/ write a correct villanelle.

Your sing steals the wind from the low -- playing with parts of speech can be effective but in my mind I want low to go with cattle -- jury's still out on sing as a noun

I loved sing as a noun, of course I could just use song, but we will see. I suppose I have to mention an actual cow to get away with low? nm

that laughs with the broken down lamb. My brother -- a comma here?

yes, a comma of course, where the hell is my editor anyway . . .?

I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow -- I think this needs end punctuation

semicolon?

the thick articulate stutter, a stick. Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

I see you didn't mention the extra foot and then the subsequent switch from 3-4-3 to 3-3-3. Goood. You are beginning to see the power of the dark side . .

We hide away hide away flow -- love this line

well, I hope you liked "we hide away hide away" as "flow is pretty much a place holder for now. still . . .

and slough through the muck and the slather. -- again, not sure about slather as a noun, though I like the near-rhyme

yah, "slather" was a place holder too, but the assonance has grown on me. now what?
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away quiet, we gather -- but I do like loam as a verb, lovely!

yay!
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow -- I lose the meter here -- sorrow is a feminine ending and it throws the rhymes out quite badly to my ear, I'd suggest replacing it

yah, I know it is a feminine ending, it was my favorite line in the poem and now I am probably going to chop it.

and think that in time it won't matter. -- think is weak and this line seems a bit of a filler

I don't know if it is filler per se as it says what I want to say but you are correct, it is currently losing an arm wrestling contest with Stephen Hawking so it must be changed.

I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the bough of your brow.

milo

I love to see people play with grammatical structures and put words in unexpected places -- sometimes they work, sometimes they're just a bit weird but obviously that will depend on the reader and the connotations the reader brings to the text. Your second repetend works in a ghazal-like fashion and this coupled with the asymmetrical lines gives the villanelle a looser structure, which I think is effective in conjunction with your grammatical playfulness. The pastoral images are quite at odds with the disturbed nature of the themes running through this, which again is an interesting effect. Rooks and crows to me are associated with winter, death and battles, but are also guardians. There is a dualistic nature to this entire poem that is worth exploring, and definitely worth many more reads.

Yah, the second repitend has to go too, I just included it in the first draft for people brave enough to think "what if . . .?"

I am not that brave.

You are a huge help as always leanne and I expect to post a revision in the next couple days.

thanks.

milo

[billy]

forgive me before hand, i'm shite at meter, so what i see probably isn't what i should see i like the way you played with the form, it feels sad, i love the phrase brook of your brow, you use it extremely well in the refrains, i'll stop now in case i start confusing myself.

thanks for the read.

I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow. i'm left thinking, why a brooch someone's brow?, are these slant rhymes,? i've noticed them elsewhere in the poem (well i would wouldn't i it's a flippin ville) and they work okay.

Your sing steals the wind from the low
that laughs with the broken down lamb. My brother some good sonics with the ow ro ow going on, i'm struggling a bit with the laughs and broken down lamb
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow
the thick articulate stutter, a stick. Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow. i like the switch i the refrain

We hide away hide away flow
and slough through the muck and the slather. this is part where i see the meter as being off i get the da/dum da/da dum/da buth i see da da da and i'm not sure how to work it out, basically slather doesn't feel right
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow i'm presuming the extra half foot works because of the 5 short feet? it does work but i'm not sure if it should
we loam away quiet, we gather
at peace in the brook of your brow. my favourite verse, it just reads so fluidly and the way the refrain changes gives it a feeling of depth and softness.

So I suitcase away this sorrow
and think that in time it won't matter.
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the bough of your brow.

milo

[milo]

revision 1 posted

[milo]

minor changes, some punctuation and a couple word choices.

[serge gurkski]

"may actually be worse."
to soothe you; Nope. ;-)

I like this expression:

I suitcase away these sorrows.

and so on

[billy]

the word changes make it flow , the low before placed an image in the mind that contradicted the lamb, now it it doesn't the other word changes work well, though slough held me up.

the new quatrain works better simply because it's simply done.

i'm not struggling with the meter of the 2nd lines any more but wonder if they'd be better were the of a sameness, meter-wise. i pig shit thick when it comes to meter but i still falter on the 2nd lines.

good edit.

[milo]

"may actually be worse."
to soothe you; Nope. ;-)

I like this expression:

I suitcase away these sorrows.

and so on

ty, Serge, I am settling on the revision being better as well.

milo

---

the word changes make it flow , the low before placed an image in the mind that contradicted the lamb, now it it doesn't the other word changes work well, though slough held me up.

the new quatrain works better simply because it's simply done.

i'm not struggling with the meter of the 2nd lines any more but wonder if they'd be better were the of a sameness, meter-wise. i pig shit thick when it comes to meter but i still falter on the 2nd lines.

good edit.

Thanks billy, I definitely agree on the new quatrain, I am still struggling with "low"

For now< I know I definitely prefer the assymetry here, though I do have a symmetrical version I could post.

thanks
milo

[Truerenigma]

This is a tough form man, bravo for brass balls. Last time I tried to write one of these I nearly killed myself.

[sorlaize]

Kith

I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow.

Your song steals the wind from the low

Your bones take the crush from the blow;

I want this to be about the life of a family of birds nesting or some similar poetic story of nature.

However it's too obscure for me to 'get'.

[ellajam]

The more interested I get in form/meter the more impressed I am with this one. I guess it goes under the category of You've got to know the rules to break them, in my novice writing I try so hard to avoid some of the things that work so well here, the variations and sight rhymes. A meaty poem to think about.

I prefer "and slough through the muck and the slather." in version 1, it has a fine gallop to it that suits the line.

I hope this is enough of a comment for the Serious forum, it is an old post and you are probably not actively working on it now.

Version 2: switched to a more consistent meter, made a couple word changes, not sure if it really is any improvement, may actually be worse.

Kith

I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow.

Your song steals the wind from the low
that mourns with the bleat of the lamb. My brother,
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow;
the thick articulate stutter.  Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

We hide away hide away flow
and slough through the muck and the peat , we slather.
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away, quietly pine, we gather
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow
and whisper the sough and the scatter .
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the brook of your brow.



original



I am not the rook or the crow,
or the intricate brooch at your throat. A feather
to rest in the brook of your brow.

Your sing steals the wind from the low
that laughs with the broken down lamb. My brother
I am not the rook or the crow.

Your bones take the crush from the blow
the thick articulate stutter, a stick.  Our father
will drown in the brook of your brow.

We hide away hide away flow
and slough through the muck and the slather.
I am not the rook or the crow

as they wax and they nettle the grow
we loam away quiet, we gather
at peace in the brook of your brow.

So I suitcase away this sorrow
and think that in time it won't matter.
I am not the rook or the crow
to hide in the bough of your brow.

milo