Grey shadows fall and seep through seams
Morphing threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
By weaving trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers days last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cry's of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
And thus portends with sagging dread
When everywhere an ill-wind blows
On veins of deconstructed web

Feelings stripped and harshly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic birds of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour
To journey back on silver chord

will give some proper feedback when i wake up. did wonder what meed was, will google it later

Hi Paddygirl,

Sorry to be so late welcoming you to the forums. Welcome!

I didn't see much here that was jarring or that I didn't like. I'm in love with the title. Mostly, these comments will fall along the lines of my preferences. There may be a lot of words in this response but I will try to keep it at the mild forum level.

(07-16-2012, 07:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  Grey shadows fall and seep through seams--often when I see compound construction fall AND seep I think that you may not have the best word that combines both ideas. I would be tempted to either look for that word or change and to "to"
Morphing threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
By weaving trailing webs of strife--I think you have a lot of ing contructions here which aren't always the best. That said, I do like your introduction of seams, threads, and patterns which tie in nicely with the later silver chord

And from these fragile, fractured streams--nice line
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers days last gleam--I like last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught--not a fan of the reuse of astral since it is in the title

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven--good image
And caverns echo cry's of grief--should this be cries?

A coffin-weight of worry grows--love coffin-weight of worry
And thus portends with sagging dread
When everywhere an ill-wind blows--ill wind is slightly cliche
On veins of deconstructed web--again web is a nice continuation of threads and such

Feelings stripped and harshly flayed--can someone be flayed in a non harsh manner?
With chords of tension holding taut--good line when you consider astral projection
Solace cloaked in darkening spray--I love darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic birds of peace to fly--after the earlier dove raven line I'm not a fan of mystic birds of peace

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show--I think this entire stanza holds together really well

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour--chaotic evil feels too abstract to me something with more punch perhaps
To journey back on silver chord--appropriate last line. You may be able to play with the dual meaning of chord and vibrate some tone or music along it. Also, playing off the web earlier spiders traveling across a web like nightmares seeking prey. A lot of ways you could go.

I realize I'm pushing the edges of mild, my apologies if this is more than you were looking for. I think you have something that could be developed nicely. I hope some of that was helpful.

Best,

Todd

Agree with Todd, the structure and flow of the poem is good. It hits the expected beats at the proper points.

If at all I had to pick a minor nit, it's perhaps that the POV is a bit too passive and removed for the tension you were trying to build up around the middle. "A coffin-weight of worry grows", "Feelings stripped and harshly flayed" ... whose worry? whose feelings? The narrator's? Up until then the scenario makes itself out to be almost a universal experience that the reader can distantly project to, and didn't seem to involve the narrator at all. So I suppose storytelling-wise you have to decide whether to make it the personal journey of the narrator (in which case a more active first person POV is in order) or to keep it passive and detached, in which case those details would then be smoothed over.

It was a great read for me. Thanks for sharing

Grey shadows mist and seep through seams -changed fall to mist
Morphed in threads of mundane life lost the 'ing
Becoming complex pattern’d dreams
to weave these trailing webs of strife lost the 'ing

And from these fragile fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers days last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cries of grief spell correction

A coffin-weight of worry grows
will this requiem never ebb? removed ill wind but
spider venom increases flow not sure this works
On veins of deconstructed web

Feelings stripped and largely flayed changed harshly
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic bird of peace to fly to singular for dove only

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour gotta think more on this
To journey back on silver chord.



Hi Tood, thanks for the welcome and generous critique! it was a great help, have no issue at all with the depth of it. feel free to go further if needed, I only stay away from the serious forum because I cannot reciprocate, nor equal the level! (even your comment on compound construction baffles!) add more if the changes jar! thanks again

(07-16-2012, 07:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  Grey shadows fall and seep through seams would a comma work better than the 'and'? though that would screw the meter up, so maybe use another option
Morphing threads of mundane life morphing threads are exceptional words to use, as we all know; in astral travel the body is said to tethered by a thread. is this line a foot short in the meter?
Becoming complex patterned dreams i'm not keen on becoming but to change it to become would kick the meter out, and i have no suggestions.
By weaving trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams nice effin f's
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers days last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught not sure the invoking works that well.and astral is a big word to use twice.

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven cheeky little line, love the comparison.
And caverns echo cry's of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
And thus portends with sagging dread
When everywhere an ill-wind blows feels cliche.
On veins of deconstructed web

Feelings stripped and harshly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut great line tying chords, tension and taught, together
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic birds of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow feels forced
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour
To journey back on silver chord

i'm reminded of Dennis Wheatley's the devil rides out....though this isn't as black artsy as that

some great alliteration and assonance going on throughout the poem which gives it a graceful flowing quality. i notice the repetition of fractured but in this case it worked. not sure about the meter in places,
(i'm not qualified for an indepth on that aspect but it did seem off in a couple of places. needless to say, i really enjoyed it. some good images and a feeling some great fight between dark and light.

thanks for the read.

---

please accept my apologies, i thought it were in serious crit and i did a line by line...i'll be more vigilant in future. <---billy you stupid person. my excuse is.....did you see Todd's feedback

---

bugger, i see you already did an edit while i were posting.

the ings removal works well as does the rest except for; spider venom increases flow
a suggestion would be;

spider venom's increased flow

sorry for not replying sooner

Just a couple of thoughts from me today (it's all I have, my brain is nearly empty)... why grey shadows? Isn't grey implied? Removing it starts the line on a trochee, which gets rid of Billy's perception of missing feet in the next line (nothing missing, just reversed, but it does throw out the rhythm a bit). Taking out some -ings has helped immensely.

S2 L3: day's

S3 L2: "In which" is awkward -- what about "there to gain some sweet reprieve"?
S3 L4: I'd get rid of "and"

S4: To answer your "not sure this works" -- no it doesn't. The meter's all mucked up. In L2, I do like "requiem" but my pronunciation gives it three syllables, which is too many. To remedy that, I'd use "not" instead of "never". L3 is also too long -- what about "spider venom boosts the flow"?

S5 L1: "largely" is way too vague

Between S5 and S6 you use "true" twice -- one should really go.

S8 L2: I'd put "and once-fractured thoughts restored" for the sake of meter. L3: It's less "evil" than "chaotic" that bugs me here, it forces me to rush the line and I don't like that What about something like "free from turmoil's dreaded scour"?

Back later, need more coffee...

V.3
Astral Projection in Nightmares

Shadows mist and seep through seams
Morphed in threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
To weave these trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers day’s last gleam
It summons spirits overwrought

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
There to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cries of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
will this requiem not ebb?
spider venom boosts the flow
On veins of deconstructed web

Feelings stripped and badly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where pure will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic bird of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst a bright and shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
And once fractured thoughts, restored
Free from turmoil’s dreaded scour
To journey back on silver chord.


ok, I think I have addressed the various suggestions raised (Leanne, Billy and Todd) hopefully the replacement for 'invoking astral planes line hasn't messed it up by being too 'lispy'! though I honestly can't tell if meter is off in it either!
Billy, as I said to Todd, line by line serious crit. doesn't worry me, go for it, tear it (not me )apart if needs be, I just can't return the help , I write on gut, and tone and with a lot of help obviously! the rules are mostly beyond me
Leanne, the lines you fixed for me had 7 syllables, I aimed for 8 in each line, when you get a chance can you explain this to me if poss. after your coffee obviously ...I just had a 3 shot so I might just have to replace spiders for bees to reflect the buzz (I get 3 syllables in requiem also, I just say it faster...probably the caffeine!

Addy, thank you for your feedback on POV, it is something I wasn't watching out for, am hoping the corrections help it more, not less, but the aim is more a universal one as everyone battles demons in nightmares, in some form or another I imagine, it is not meant to be from a narrator exp. I thought perhaps the good/bad, light/dark etc would universal "'ise " that, it is something I will have to be more aware of so thank you for pointing it out

The light/dark thing is indeed strongly universal (probably one of the oldest and strongest collective human concepts) so yeah, it works very well as written. My interpretation of it as possibly a first-person is no doubt an overreading of a material that is pretty explicit in its intent

As for the edit... nicely subtle and very effective. You already had a good core, so the tweaks fell in place pretty easily. seamless, i might say.

thanks for not whacking us in the balls
and we only allow person attacks in the sewer and pig's arse

(07-17-2012, 02:42 PM)addy Wrote:  The light/dark thing is indeed strongly universal (probably one of the oldest and strongest collective human concepts) so yeah, it works very well as written. My interpretation of it as possibly a first-person is no doubt an overreading of a material that is pretty explicit in its intent

As for the edit... nicely subtle and very effective. You already had a good core, so the tweaks fell in place pretty easily. seamless, i might say.

Seamless.....

paddygirl Wrote:Leanne, the lines you fixed for me had 7 syllables, I aimed for 8 in each line, when you get a chance can you explain this to me if poss. after your coffee obviously

Remember to count stresses or beats, not syllables. You have four beats (4 feet) per line.

SHAdows | MIST and | SEEP through | SEAMS
trochee | trochee | trochee | trochee

MORPHED in | THREADS of | MUNdane | LIFE
trochee | trochee | trochee | trochee

beCOMing | COMPlex | PATTerned | DREAMS
amphibrach| trochee | trochee | trochee

to WEAVE these | TRAILing | WEBS of | STRIFE
amphibrach | trochee | trochee | trochee

(07-18-2012, 04:29 AM)Leanne Wrote:  

paddygirl Wrote:Leanne, the lines you fixed for me had 7 syllables, I aimed for 8 in each line, when you get a chance can you explain this to me if poss. after your coffee obviously

Remember to count stresses or beats, not syllables. You have four beats (4 feet) per line.

SHAdows | MIST and | SEEP through | SEAMS
trochee | trochee | trochee | trochee

MORPHED in | THREADS of | MUNdane | LIFE
trochee | trochee | trochee | trochee

beCOMing | COMPlex | PATTerned | DREAMS
amphibrach| trochee | trochee | trochee

to WEAVE these | TRAILing | WEBS of | STRIFE
amphibrach | trochee | trochee | trochee

ah yes, it is coming back to me now! I was reviewing some of the notes that are posted in the Novice section but when reading through, I end up confusing myself by mixing up details...thank you

hey paddy
haven't had a chance to look through the other posts extensively, so i hope one or two things can help

(07-17-2012, 01:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  V.3
Astral Projection in Nightmares

Shadows mist and seep through seams
Morphed in threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
To weave these trailing webs of strife ...i feel as though i'm entering a Grimm fairy tale or something. the lines themselves don't leave me with a lot to actually imagine though

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers day’s last gleam
It summons spirits overwrought

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
There to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven...i like this image
And caverns echo cries of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
will this requiem not ebb? ...flow felt a bit off on this for me
spider venom boosts the flow
On veins of deconstructed web

...too this point, the line breaks feel a bit too regular for me--it basically happens every time a new clause or prepositional phrase is introduced. i think some enjambment would freshen some of the lines

Feelings stripped and badly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray...flow again disrupted me
Where pure will can, and must, be sought ...the "will can, and must, be", when read the wrong way, feels crowded with verbs

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic bird of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst a bright and shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show...lots of -ings to focus on

A soul is salved in darkened hour
And once fractured thoughts, restored...flow struck me as off here too
Free from turmoil’s dreaded scour
To journey back on silver chord.

(07-16-2012, 07:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  Grey shadows fall and seep through seams
Morphing threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams Lovely image!
By weaving trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought I thought meed meant the same thing as recompense?
As darkness covers days last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cry's of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
And thus portends with sagging dread
When everywhere an ill-wind blows
On veins of deconstructed web Love this image!

Feelings stripped and harshly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic birds of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour Chaotic evil is a bit D&D sounding.
To journey back on silver chord

I love all the imagery and word usage. Unsure on what some of it means, but still good : P

(07-19-2012, 08:02 AM)Philatone Wrote:  hey paddy
haven't had a chance to look through the other posts extensively, so i hope one or two things can help

(07-17-2012, 01:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  V.3
Astral Projection in Nightmares

Shadows mist and seep through seams
Morphed in threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
To weave these trailing webs of strife ...i feel as though i'm entering a Grimm fairy tale or something. the lines themselves don't leave me with a lot to actually imagine though. . This is the lead in to the nightmare where the battle for good and bad occurs, but it is ambitious because it is harder to recall exact events

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers day’s last gleam
It summons spirits overwrought

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
There to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven...i like this image
And caverns echo cries of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
will this requiem not ebb? ...flow felt a bit off on this for me yep, I agree, it was a replacement line, will need to look at this again I think
spider venom boosts the flow
On veins of deconstructed web

...too this point, the line breaks feel a bit too regular for me--it basically happens every time a new clause or prepositional phrase is introduced. i think some enjambment would freshen some of the lines

Feelings stripped and badly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in dark'ning spray...flow again disrupted me ' smoother?
Where pure will can - and must, be sought ...the "will can, and must, be", when read the wrong way, feels crowded with verbs

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic bird of peace to fly

Rest is claimed now this has ended
Amidst a bright and shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcended
Revealing higher realms on show...lots of -ings to focus on Better ?

A soul is salved in darkened hour
And once fractured thoughts, restored...flow struck me as off here too and was put in to help stress but think it hinders low
Free from turmoil’s dreaded scour
To journey back on silver chord.


Hi Philatone, apologies for late reply, we have issues with our phone line and are waiting on Phone co.yet again as we continually lose landline/Internet! Only another week or so before they can get back
Thank you very much for your feedback, all good advice, have put in a few changes but need to revise some of it, enjambment would certainly cause a major rework
Always helpful to get additional info. And points of view. Thanks again!

---

(07-20-2012, 01:35 AM)Universalchild Wrote:  

(07-16-2012, 07:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  Grey shadows fall and seep through seams
Morphing threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams Lovely image!
By weaving trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought I thought meed meant the same thing as recompense?
As darkness covers days last gleam
Invoking astral planes so fraught

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
In which to gain some sweet reprieve
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cry's of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
And thus portends with sagging dread
When everywhere an ill-wind blows
On veins of deconstructed web Love this image!

Feelings stripped and harshly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where true will can, and must, be sought

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic birds of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst brilliant, shimm’ring glow
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
Once-fractured thoughts, restored
Free from chaotic evil’s scour Chaotic evil is a bit D&D sounding.
To journey back on silver chord

I love all the imagery and word usage. Unsure on what some of it means, but still good : P

Hi UC, thanks for popping by, always appreciate feedback. Meed is reward and recompense is generally used more for compensation or payment, there is a slight difference although it is close I agree. You have reviewed the original posting - V3 is the rewrite though a few tweaks are still needed. the "chaotic evil was removed" thanks for reviewing.

(07-17-2012, 01:49 PM)Paddygirl Wrote:  V.3
Astral Projection in Nightmares

Shadows mist and seep through seams i prefer this line, it has a more solid wisp about it
Morphed in threads of mundane life
Becoming complex patterned dreams
To weave these trailing webs of strife

And from these fragile, fractured streams
No meed or recompense be bought
As darkness covers day’s last gleam
It summons spirits overwrought

Substance seeks a hallowed haven
There to gain some sweet reprieve the meter works well
Clash of will ‘tween dove and raven
And caverns echo cries of grief

A coffin-weight of worry grows
will this requiem not ebb?
spider venom boosts the flow
On veins of deconstructed web a more solid verse and ai like the ebb and flow you worked in.

Feelings stripped and badly flayed
With chords of tension holding taut
Solace cloaked in darkening spray
Where pure will can, and must, be sought. pure is much better than truth

To deviate from one’s true course
Will take from where the answers lie
Bravely face opposing force
For mystic bird of peace to fly

Rest is claimed with this now ending
Amidst a bright and shimm’ring glow again, this meter feels better.
Unveiling mists from light transcending
Revealing higher realms on show

A soul is salved in darkened hour
And once fractured thoughts, restored
Free from turmoil’s dreaded scour if i had a nit now, this line would be it...(i have no idea why aprt from i feel the end rhyme's forced)
To journey back on silver chord.


ok, I think I have addressed the various suggestions raised (Leanne, Billy and Todd) hopefully the replacement for 'invoking astral planes line hasn't messed it up by being too 'lispy'! though I honestly can't tell if meter is off in it either!
Billy, as I said to Todd, line by line serious crit. doesn't worry me, go for it, tear it (not me )apart if needs be, I just can't return the help , I write on gut, and tone and with a lot of help obviously! the rules are mostly beyond me
Leanne, the lines you fixed for me had 7 syllables, I aimed for 8 in each line, when you get a chance can you explain this to me if poss. after your coffee obviously ...I just had a 3 shot so I might just have to replace spiders for bees to reflect the buzz (I get 3 syllables in requiem also, I just say it faster...probably the caffeine!

Addy, thank you for your feedback on POV, it is something I wasn't watching out for, am hoping the corrections help it more, not less, but the aim is more a universal one as everyone battles demons in nightmares, in some form or another I imagine, it is not meant to be from a narrator exp. I thought perhaps the good/bad, light/dark etc would universal "'ise " that, it is something I will have to be more aware of so thank you for pointing it out

i think you did a great edit. my only nit is just that a nit. while i said in the body of the poem the meter felt right, don't take my word for it because i'm crap at it but it does flow much better.

thanks for the edit