(05-05-2012, 11:51 AM)Heslopian Wrote:  I've just been talking with a friend about the need for delicacy in dealing with certain subjects in art. For instance in recent years some comic books have tried distinguising themselves as "adult" by paying lip service to serious issues like rape. I think any subject can be used in any artistic medium, but you need to approach it with interest and sensitivity. If you're indifferent to the subject matter or are using it simply for effect I think the resultant work will be at best shallow and at worst offensive.

Ugh, exactly. 90 percent of the time it's awful when rape is brought up in comics, because it often comes from the perspective of a misogynistic manchild(and I love comics, I do). Often rape (and other forms of abuse) is used as a tragic backstory, like a loved one's death would be a tragic backstory for Spider-man or Batman, but without understanding the ambiguity of it, the shame and the blame and the gender/social politics involved. Rather than "shocking" it comes off as stupid and amateur. So yeah, as a writer it definitely helps to have a genuine investment in the themes you are writing about.

That echos something I wrote somewhere else recently, that they go overboard in showing you their "rawness" in a pretense to honest.

When a comic is tragic, it's just to tragic to bare,
when heroes spout seriousness in their underwear!

Personally, if I can't hear the audience groan when they read a poem of mine, then I will be seriously depressed!

I like that we don't care about emo's feelings, like pus, and need to kill more babies!

Go Leanne!

(05-07-2012, 12:47 PM)addy Wrote:  

(05-05-2012, 11:51 AM)Heslopian Wrote:  I've just been talking with a friend about the need for delicacy in dealing with certain subjects in art. For instance in recent years some comic books have tried distinguising themselves as "adult" by paying lip service to serious issues like rape. I think any subject can be used in any artistic medium, but you need to approach it with interest and sensitivity. If you're indifferent to the subject matter or are using it simply for effect I think the resultant work will be at best shallow and at worst offensive.

Ugh, exactly. 90 percent of the time it's awful when rape is brought up in comics, because it often comes from the perspective of a misogynistic manchild(and I love comics, I do). Often rape (and other forms of abuse) is used as a tragic backstory, like a loved one's death would be a tragic backstory for Spider-man or Batman, but without understanding the ambiguity of it, the shame and the blame and the gender/social politics involved. Rather than "shocking" it comes off as stupid and amateur. So yeah, as a writer it definitely helps to have a genuine investment in the themes you are writing about.

IMO any writer should treat there subject with respect, and do their research regarding subjects they have little or no knowledge of. Some things need to be treated with delicacy, that is not to say that it can't be hard hitting, or even vulgar, but there still needs to be an element of respect. It's not just comic book writers that fall into the trap of using abuse for shock value without any understanding of the situations they're using, though comic books are a very good example. (Might have something to do with the pictures as well as the words) IMO

well research for matter that needs researching is a must, how does one go about research child molesting? rape, and murder etc.

isn't it okay to place ourselves in the place of said victims/ perpetrators and simply do an intelligent POV?
i really really hate poetry about child porn or rape but if done correct it's poetry is just as good as other works. it's when you get people glorifying the rape or taking of a 12 year old as though it's a feat of manhood when in fact it's shock and shock shit. some stuff even when mild, porn wise. turns my stomach. maybe that's where the treat with respect should come in.

(05-08-2012, 11:14 AM)billy Wrote:  isn't it okay to place ourselves in the place of said victims/ perpetrators and simply do an intelligent POV?

Yes... "intelligent" being the operative word.

There are just some things you have to try to think about more to get right, and not just take at face value. Like the example of rape (which largely applies to women but is just as true for men), some men find it hard to imagine being put in that position... it's a lot easier to imagine themselves getting beat up or something, which isn't really the same. The psychological chasm is hard to bridge.

Not to say that you shouldn't touch those subjects at all just because you have no personal experience. If "personal experience" was a requirement in writing fiction, well... most writers will be out of luck . But the depth of the writing is what separates the skilled ones from the hacks

When writing from the POV from a victim or perpetrator one has to be able to comprehend that POV. If it is completely outside of someone's range of experience, it's harder to write, but not impossible. If the writer still wants to write from a POV that they can't accurately comprehend, memoirs are a good start as research material.

so is imagination and a decent sized dose of common sense. many experiences give similar emotive responses. we can use these in our non participating POV.

Everyone has an imagination to some degree. It's an invaluable tool. Common sense though, seems to be sadly underrated as something useful.

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And agreed, it's the emotions we can draw on and use in pieces that give it that believable quality, not first hand experience, which if you're writing about vampires for example, you definitely won't have.

Poetry for shock value is barely poetry at all. It's like saying that a streaker is the same as a Botticelli nude. If you're going to write about a difficult subject, don't do it based on information you've found in comic books or someone's blogging fantasies -- really put yourself in the position (not physically, obviously). Good poets can write about any subject, from any POV, because good poets can suspend their own judgments at least for the length of the poem.

i have to agree. though a bit of shock can work in the right scenario.
does believability play a part?

Great fiction (even in poetry), is great because it's believable. It could be about anything, aliens, faeries, vampires, werewolves... whatever, and for the length of the poem/story, you can believe that they are true. Logically you know otherwise, but good writing transports you to other possibilities outside of reality. True fiction is the same, the lines between reality and fiction should blur so closely that you can't tell it's fiction, even if you know it is.

Personally I like imagining people who are more interesting than me and writing about them

does this mean we can expect a poem any time soon off you ?