v4.0 (some major chopping and changing)

If I put a gun to my head and pull,
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no?
This.. miserable pile of detail-
Intolerant of my will of command, simply sits

What of all the lives lived by- 1900s?
Happy minds a moment, robbed of all
All their achievements, where did they go?
Soaring high, a bird: none of this concern

"I don't know why, but I feel"
No answer completes the considering of oneself.

If I pour my heart out-
Miserably, wants more than its share;
To play mother, father, sibling and child--
Said beauty unsafe from robbers...

All I know:
The next century will go on, small universes feeling
-Mine's lived too long.


(end)

v3.0 (restructured)

If I put a gun to my head and pull,
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no?
This, miserable pile of detail-
A seclusion lit for people to drive past

What of all the lives gone by, 1900s?
Happy lives a moment, disappeared forever
All my achievements, where will they go?
What do I want? To make it known I was here

Back in this room, If I pour my heart out,
I want all of these objects, to control them.
To play mother, father, sibling and child--
Even that beauty killed, eventually

"I don't know why, but I feel"
Problem of this century isn't it?
Silly emotion, drive, never getting me anywhere.

All I know:
The next century will go on, small universes inter-operating
-Mine's lived too long.

(end)

v2.0 added 'lit' line 4, mistyped

If I put a gun to my head and pull
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no?
This, miserable pile of detail
A seclusion lit for people to drive past

No, it doesn't exist so without observer
Alien landscape, whites and reds, who knows?
Depends on the comparison, e.g. heat vision.

I know anyway, If I pour my heart out
I want all of these objects, to control them
To play mother, father, sibling and child
Beauty killed, eventually

"I don't know why, but I feel"
Problem of this century isn't it?

All I know:
The next century will go on, small universes inter-operating
"I've lived too long."

(end)

v1.0

If I put a gun to my head and pull
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no?
This, miserable pile of detail
A seclusion for people to drive past

No, it doesn't exist so without observer
Alien landscape, whites and reds, who knows?
Depends on the comparison, e.g. heat vision.

I know anyway, If I pour my heart out
I want all of these objects, to control them
To play mother, father, sibling and child
Beauty killed, eventually

"I don't know why, but I feel"
Problem of this century isn't it?

All I know:
The next century will go on, small universes inter-operating
"I've lived too long."

(end)

(04-16-2012, 04:30 AM)Chaotic Body Wrote:  If I put a gun to my head and pullyou cannot just leave out a word because it does not permit a reasonable rhythm to exist. Rewrite for rewards
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no?Who the hell knows. Will we be enlightened?
This, miserable pile of detailcompletely illogical comma
A seclusion for people to drive pastnot know what meant

No, it doesn't exist so without observer
Alien landscape, whites and reds, who knows?
Depends on the comparison, e.g. heat vision.

I know anyway, If I pour my heart out
I want all of these objects, to control them
To play mother, father, sibling and child
Beauty killed, eventuallyI am lost. That may be your aim. Result then

"I don't know why, but I feel"
Problem of this century isn't it?A paradox springs to mind."You do not think, and yet you are"

All I know:
The next century will go on, small universes inter-operating
"I've lived too long." I cannot comment on this sentiment as there may be consequences. As Spike Milligan's tombstone reads "See...I told you I was ill"...but I hope not.

Previously covered by earlier crit. Usually I squirm at bad punctuation but give some leeway regarding content. This is not even terse-verse and is far from what it says on the tin. I cannot agree that this is "adult"; it is adolescent. I cannot agree that it is "dark"; it is barely dusk. I cannot agree that it is "suicide" as no one died (yet). So....as before, I would ask that you consider less pseudo-gothic subject matter and lighten up. The danger is, you may get to like it.
Best,
Tectak

(04-16-2012, 05:12 AM)tectak Wrote:  you cannot just leave out a word because it does not permit a reasonable rhythm to exist.

I don't understand
In songs, I know -just as in poems- you can leave a word off the end of a line or lyric, if the first thing that springs to mind fits
I think it's nice

Thanks for the input! I'm mulling over it

"If I put a gun to my head and pull" is not only a perfectly acceptable
poetic line, it's got more emotion and a little less (just a little) trite
going on.

As far as the poem goes, I'd try sticking to basic, physical nouns and
leaving out all past/future/self references. Try it.

(04-16-2012, 05:38 AM)Chaotic Body Wrote:  

(04-16-2012, 05:12 AM)tectak Wrote:  you cannot just leave out a word because it does not permit a reasonable rhythm to exist.

I don't understand
In songs, I know -just as in poems- you can leave a word off the end of a line or lyric, if the first thing that springs to mind fits
I think it's nice

Thanks for the input! I'm mulling over it

I do not agree that you can omit a functional word out of flippant desire to appear "nice"; and nor,ray, do I entirely support your defense that such pointless indulgence is ok because it is "poetic". We are trying to improve writing in these forums not by advocating laissez faire largesse but by pointing out transgressions from quality by eliminating mediocrity.
If anything goes then there go we all.
Best,
Tectak
Ps On a constructive note I am impressed by the dignity shown by "chaos" in the face of fairly searing criticism. As oft pointed out, criticism should be taken eclectically. Use the best and ignore the rest.

hmm, i think tectak just pulled his own gun:

    < poetic >

  flippant desire
  pointless indulgence
  improved writing
  laissez faire largesse
  transgressions from quality
  eliminating mediocrity

  "If anything goes...
    then there go we all"

      - - -

(04-16-2012, 07:21 AM)tectak Wrote:  Ps On a constructive note I am impressed by the dignity shown by "chaos" in the face of fairly searing criticism. As oft pointed out, criticism should be taken eclectically. Use the best and ignore the rest.

Seconding this. We usually try to keep the hostile barbs out of the critique forums as they serve little purpose, so thank you for your coolheadedness and maturity in this instance, chaoticbody.

Moving on to some comments -- you do have a penchant for the cerebral/philosophical/metaphysical... and in putting them in poem the idea is to make them shine as something intriguing/shocking/beautiful for the reader. I do feel that you have all these cool ideas in your head that you are having trouble translating into something emotionally riveting for the reader, as it seems so... self-contained? A bit like navelgazing. I'd go with ray's suggestion to minimize the excessive referencing, and that should improve the relatability

(04-16-2012, 04:30 AM)Chaotic Body Wrote:  v2.0 added 'lit' line 4, mistyped

If I put a gun to my head and pull
This room stays here, lit and playing music, no? I do like how you started, as it is somewhat playful, intriguing, and has drama
This, remove comma miserable pile of detail
A seclusion lit for people to drive past I get what you're saying, but wonder if this is the best way to say what you mean? For instance, the choice of "drive past" invokes the thought of cars without much reason, when all you mean is to speed by (At least that's how I understand it)

No, it doesn't exist so without observer
Alien landscape, whites and reds, who knows?
Depends on the comparison, e.g. heat vision. This line took me out of the poem quite a bit. Maybe the transition would be better without this line?

I know anyway, If I pour my heart out
I want all of these objects, to control them
To play mother, father, sibling and child
Beauty killed, eventually I worry that you write in a way that's too functional (L2, especially, suffers from being just a dry explanation of exactly what you're thinking); there is poetry in the idea, but you have to translate that to how you write it out. Also words like "anyway" and "eventually" usually come off as lazy or filler when found in poetry, often such a sparse and particular medium

"I don't know why, but I feel"
Problem of this century isn't it?

All I know: Maybe you should eliminate this line? I only say that because so far you've started your stanzas with "I know", "I don't know", then "All I know...", so best to ditch at least one of the three
The next century will go on, small universes inter-operating I feel there is a profundity here, but choosing a word like "inter-operating" lets it down
"I've lived too long." Don't think this needs to be in quotes? That said, I found this line poignant and an effective close

Thanks for the read. Hope the comments help somewhat

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  you do have a penchant for the cerebral/philosophical/metaphysical... and in putting them in poem the idea is to make them shine as something intriguing/shocking/beautiful for the reader.

I'm struggling to get a sense of what makes a short piece of writing precisely so.. intriguing and thought-provoking, yeah. This is a new world (poetry and my kind of writing) for me!

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  cool ideas in your head that you are having trouble translating into something emotionally riveting for the reader, as it seems so... self-contained? A bit like navelgazing. I'd go with ray's suggestion to minimize the excessive referencing, and that should improve the relatability

I am shooting myself in the foot with this kind of writing.. but I don't think it can be so powerful (potentially) without drawing in a lot of things. Definitely though, I'm better off starting other pieces of writing and leaving this a while.

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  I do like how you started, as it is somewhat playful, intriguing, and has drama

I really want to do this more, I gave it a go, I'll have to make an effort to actually read some good poems !

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  Maybe the transition would be better without this line?

That's something I want to really get to grips with.. as well as rhythm, so that it flows and conjures the thought-provoking images.. 'eventually'

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  I worry that you write in a way that's too functional

Sparse and particular eh? I'll think on that
Functional things should be removed completely?

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  Maybe you should eliminate this line? I only say that because so far you've started your stanzas with "I know", "I don't know", then "All I know...", so best to ditch at least one of the three

(04-16-2012, 12:40 PM)addy Wrote:  That said, I found this line poignant and an effective close

I'm trying to run a theme through it about what one *can* know about life... I think. Haha, I have no idea whether that's what it needs.

---

(04-16-2012, 07:21 AM)tectak Wrote:  I do not agree that you can omit a functional word out of flippant desire to appear "nice"; and nor,ray, do I entirely support your defense that such pointless indulgence is ok because it is "poetic". We are trying to improve writing in these forums not by advocating laissez faire largesse but by pointing out transgressions from quality by eliminating mediocrity.
If anything goes then there go we all.
Best,
Tectak
Ps On a constructive note I am impressed by the dignity shown by "chaos" in the face of fairly searing criticism. As oft pointed out, criticism should be taken eclectically. Use the best and ignore the rest.

I'm concerned about dramatic effect and I can't always be held, ultimately, by structure of words.. the English language is a tool after all. I'm interested to know if my choice of words is still effective

But I respect that -and thought- someone would pull me up on this, what can I say? You have a good point, and you expected to make these sorts of analyses in this forum. No use me getting angry about that.

(04-16-2012, 07:45 AM)rayheinrich Wrote:  [font=Courier New][size=1]
hmm, i think tectak just pulled his own gun:

Haha, that made my day!!

(04-16-2012, 09:29 PM)Chaotic Body Wrote:  I really want to do this more, I gave it a go, I'll have to make an effort to actually read some good poems !

that is one of the most sensible things you can do. i seldom read the work of other good poets, usually i just read the forum poets. (and often learned how not to write poetry. i think it's good that you're taking big steps and putting your poems in the serious feedback forum, though i do thing it can be demoralizing in the extreme to here so much constructive feedback that has a negative slant. try the mild critique forum till you get your feet, there people will tell of just 1 or 2 things that could help the poet in you hit the mark.

ask questions in the discussion section etc, read all the poetry you can from our reference section. go through the poem of the day forum, try your hand at giving some feedback to others. all these things will help you and all of us improve. (i'm hoping this is on topic in that i'm replying to you wanting to learn). most of all, stick with it

(04-16-2012, 09:29 PM)Chaotic Body Wrote:  Functional things should be removed completely?

Oh no, not at all! Sorry, I only meant that they shouldn't merely be functional, and there should be an aesthetic component that runs through your work-- i find that poetry at its best is the union of form and substance, to the point that sometimes form is substance. Basically, "how you say it" is just as important as "what you say".

Though your subject matter is pretty complex you appear to be a beginner form-wise, and it seems you do acknowledge that. You're definitely on the right track, as billy said, accepting critique and taking it upon yourself to try and study what "works" in poetry/ literature. It's not an exact science sometimes, but you get a general idea. For instance, the I know", "I don't know""All I know" repetitions I pointed out before... if we only cared about the functionality of the words it wouldn't matter, since, as you said, your intention really is to express what you're thinking. But since poetry is an art, you have to analyze it from the perspective of form and aesthetics. The more poetry you read and the more critique you take, the more you will pick up on the subtle artfulness of the medium.

I'll comment on your edit later, I'll read and mull over it first