“Eat, drink, and be merry,
for tomorrow we shall die.”

(Well at least you dumb young fellas,
those who aren’t hanged for being yellow!
What would be the point of war?)

“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye
if I died, what would be the point?)

“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,

(Cheap stuff for these fools, all stale,
The good wine for me, but my cups dry,
There Chamberlain, catch the serving man’s eye,
I have a toast soon to make,
At least my gulp I’ll not fake)

My hearty brave soldiers all.”

(Although most of these will fall,
those young and dumb, just cannon fodder,
I’ll reclaim their signing gold when they’re martyred,
one of thirty, survive and be some use,
five of thirty will get the noose,
and the rest will be a dying wall of flesh.)

“Good lad, I’m sure you God will bless,
perhaps some day you’ll be a knight!”

(That made his dull eyes bright,
it will happen too, when dark is light.
I worry, to depend on these boys so blind,
target practice for the enemy line,
but they’ll delay them, so my archers can fire a volley.)

“What’s that son, oh yes the enemy is full of folly,
Thinking they can stand against our great fighting force,
have you seen your knight upon his horse?
Sir Who? Oh yes he is most ferocious.”

(Never heard of him, this boy is quite precocious,
at least for a lad of eight, he’ll never see nine,
he’ll be one of the first, cut down in the line)

“Quite now lads, I your king will make a toast.
To Thee, God’s Glorious fighting host,
Thou art strong as the land, as hickories.
Most surely with such soldiers as thee…. uhm…..….ah!
God will grant Thou the victory! Amen.”

“God Save the King, To the King’s good health!”
(Forget God boys, the King looks out for himself!)


©2012 Erthona

(02-10-2012, 02:30 PM)Erthona Wrote:  “Eat, drink, and be merry,
for tomorrow we shall die.”

(Well at least you dumb young fellas,
those who aren’t hanged for being yellow!
What would be the point of war?)

“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye
if I died, what would be the point?)

“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,

(Cheap stuff for these fools, all stale,
The good wine for me, but my cups dry,
There Chamberlain, catch the serving man’s eye,
I have a toast soon to make,
At least my gulp I’ll not fake)

My hearty brave soldiers all.”

(Although most of these will fall,
those young and dumb, just cannon fodder,
I’ll reclaim their signing gold when they’re martyred,
one of thirty, survive and be some use,
five of thirty will get the noose,
and the rest will be a dying wall of flesh.)

“Good lad, I’m sure you God will bless,
perhaps some day you’ll be a knight!”

(That made his dull eyes bright,
it will happen too, when dark is light.
I worry, to depend on these boys so blind,
target practice for the enemy line,
but they’ll delay them, so my archers can fire a volley.)

“What’s that son, oh yes the enemy is full of folly,
Thinking they can stand against our great fighting force,
have you seen your knight upon his horse?
Sir Who? Oh yes he is most ferocious.”

(Never heard of him, this boy is quite precocious,
at least for a lad of eight, he’ll never see nine,
he’ll be one of the first, cut down in the line)

“Quite now lads, I your king will make a toast.
To Thee, God’s Glorious fighting host,
Thou art strong as the land, as hickories.
Most surely with such soldiers as thee…. uhm…..….ah!
God will grant Thou the victory! Amen.”

“God Save the King, To the King’s good health!”
(Forget God boys, the King looks out for himself!)


©2012 Erthona

The opener is not an aid to understanding the motivation for writing this piece. Poor Isaiah is oft' misquoted by we drunken young brits (male) when embarking on a period of joyous debauchery and that is what I expected here. So...what to say.
Overwhelmingly this reads like an allegory. Abandonement of rhythm should never be half-hearted to the extent that it appears accidental and so what we have here is a full blooded rant masked by particularity of style. Nothing wrong with that.....the critic, however, is in a quandary. No,that is erroneus. THIS critic is in a quandary. Whatever decision I may make on the value of the piece hinges upon my understanding of the intent. I do not understand so perhaps I should shut the fuck up!
Tell me more, my friend, and I will needsay less..
PS. I have read it eight times so what's to not like?
Best as always,
Tectak

(02-10-2012, 02:30 PM)Erthona Wrote:  “Eat, drink, and be merry,
for tomorrow we shall die.” the quote feels a bit weak as an opener because of its clichéness jmo (i do realize it's from eccles)

(Well at least you dumb young fellas,
those who aren’t hanged for being yellow!
What would be the point of war?)

“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye
if I died, what would be the point?)

“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,

(Cheap stuff for these fools, all stale,
The good wine for me, but my cups dry,
There Chamberlain, catch the serving man’s eye,
I have a toast soon to make,
At least my gulp I’ll not fake)

My hearty brave soldiers all.”

(Although most of these will fall,
those young and dumb, just cannon fodder,
I’ll reclaim their signing gold when they’re martyred,
one of thirty, survive and be some use,
five of thirty will get the noose,
and the rest will be a dying wall of flesh.)

“Good lad, I’m sure you God will bless, you? should it be 'you're' or should there be a comma after 'sure'
perhaps some day you’ll be a knight!”

(That made his dull eyes bright,
it will happen too, when dark is light.
I worry, to depend on these boys so blind,
target practice for the enemy line,
but they’ll delay them, so my archers can fire a volley.)

“What’s that son, oh yes the enemy is full of folly,
Thinking they can stand against our great fighting force,
have you seen your knight upon his horse?
Sir Who? Oh yes he is most ferocious.”

(Never heard of him, this boy is quite precocious,
at least for a lad of eight, he’ll never see nine,
he’ll be one of the first, cut down in the line)

“Quite now lads, I your king will make a toast.
To Thee, God’s Glorious fighting host,
Thou art strong as the land, as hickories.
Most surely with such soldiers as thee…. uhm…..….ah!
God will grant Thou the victory! Amen.”

“God Save the King, To the King’s good health!”
(Forget God boys, the King looks out for himself!)


©2012 Erthona

right, i love it. that said i'd love to re arrange a couple the opening verse.

“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,

(Cheap stuff for these fools, all stale,
The good wine for me, but my cups dry,
There Chamberlain, catch the serving man’s eye,
I have a toast soon to make,
At least my gulp I’ll not fake)
with the first quote and verse, (just an idea to beef up the opener.) of course it could create a problem elsewhere.

i wasn't sure if it was based on king john or the 'kings' men in general (soldiers). it shows the cheapness of me to a monarch and feels a little Shakespearian in it's telling; though in the modern idiom. it's one of those poems i can't truly figure out or really need to as i think through the ages, kings and commoners have the same relationship. it still needs a few more reads from me yet, but i do like the earthiness of it. apart from my comment on the opening verse i cant see as i'd change or suggest change to anything. wish i could have been more help.

thanks for read.

Tectak,

If I remember correctly this was set off by Henry IV, although it is not based on that, although it is a king speaking to his troops at a banquet before the battle on the morrow."

"Abandonement of rhythm should never be half-hearted"

I think all rhymed. Sometimes it alternated or came three at a time. In the second to last stanza the last three lines the rhyme is hickories, thee, and victory. It is done this way to show him stumbling to make a rhyme with "hickories".

One other place is:

"“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye"

Line three echoes line one as a parody and so does not really rhyme as it is the same word. The soldiers say they are dying for God, the king is basically saying he is God.

Less an allegory and more a satire or parody. What keeps it from being parody is that there is not a specific example that it mock. It is simply mocking leaders in general who get young men to die for "a cause"! In general it shows the discrepancy between what the leader says to motivate the "troops", and what he really thinks.

Billy and TT,

You and Billy have a point about the weakness of the opening line. My intent was to set up the use of cliche, and insincere statements that would be used throughout by the king.

Billy,

"it shows the cheapness of me to a monarch and feels a little Shakespearian in it's telling; though in the modern idiom. it's one of those poems i can't truly figure out"

Seems like you have. If you are thinking there is something more profound, there isn't. It's pretty straight forward, and is not referring to a specific event. It is a generalization of how kings have used young men to promote their own goals, at the cost of those men's lives.

"“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,"

Would probably make a better opening, and although it might need it, I think it would be difficult to change the opening as everything follows from that. I would have to rewrite about a third of the poem to get that to work.


In terms of form, it is written in accentual and varies between a three and five foot lines.
It was something I wrote a number of years ago and ran across recently. It was allover the place form wise, so I tightened it up a bit. It came about while I was writing some poems related to King Arthur, basically filling in some holes in the stories. For some reason I was re-reading Shakespeare's Henry IV 1 and 2 looking at how Hal changed to Henry and it somehow arose from that.

Thanks for reading and comments guys,

Dale

(02-12-2012, 02:45 PM)Erthona Wrote:  Tectak,

If I remember correctly this was set off by Henry IV, although it is not based on that, although it is a king speaking to his troops at a banquet before the battle on the morrow."

"Abandonement of rhythm should never be half-hearted"

I think all rhymed. Sometimes it alternated or came three at a time. In the second to last stanza the last three lines the rhyme is hickories, thee, and victory. It is done this way to show him stumbling to make a rhyme with "hickories".

One other place is:

"“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye"

Line three echoes line one as a parody and so does not really rhyme as it is the same word. The soldiers say they are dying for God, the king is basically saying he is God.

Less an allegory and more a satire or parody. What keeps it from being parody is that there is not a specific example that it mock. It is simply mocking leaders in general who get young men to die for "a cause"! In general it shows the discrepancy between what the leader says to motivate the "troops", and what he really thinks.

Billy and TT,

You and Billy have a point about the weakness of the opening line. My intent was to set up the use of cliche, and insincere statements that would be used throughout by the king.

Billy,

"it shows the cheapness of me to a monarch and feels a little Shakespearian in it's telling; though in the modern idiom. it's one of those poems i can't truly figure out"

Seems like you have. If you are thinking there is something more profound, there isn't. It's pretty straight forward, and is not referring to a specific event. It is a generalization of how kings have used young men to promote their own goals, at the cost of those men's lives.

"“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,"

Would probably make a better opening, and although it might need it, I think it would be difficult to change the opening as everything follows from that. I would have to rewrite about a third of the poem to get that to work.


In terms of form, it is written in accentual and varies between a three and five foot lines.
It was something I wrote a number of years ago and ran across recently. It was allover the place form wise, so I tightened it up a bit. It came about while I was writing some poems related to King Arthur, basically filling in some holes in the stories. For some reason I was re-reading Shakespeare's Henry IV 1 and 2 looking at how Hal changed to Henry and it somehow arose from that.

Thanks for reading and comments guys,

Dale

Hi Erthona,
Your advice has always been of the utmost significance to me and I have felt always that I fail in providing you with an equal return of service. It was this piece of yours that gave me the opportunity to get up to the net and possibly make some subtle play which would stretch you as you stretch me.....so please note that my comments on the piece referred to the RHYTHM not the rhyme...though I had little else to criticise I felt, and still feel, that there was/is a problem. I got the military flavour but did not get feeling that I was marching along. A subtle issue, I know, but one which you may decide to look into.........or not.
Thanks again for suggestions on Sleeping P which will be acted upon.
Best as always,
Tectak

(02-12-2012, 02:45 PM)Erthona Wrote:  Billy,
Seems like you have. If you are thinking there is something more profound, there isn't. It's pretty straight forward, and is not referring to a specific event. It is a generalization of how kings have used young men to promote their own goals, at the cost of those men's lives.
Dale

sometimes the wysiwyg poems are the best.

Tectak,

Sorry, my mistake, sometimes my dyslexia gets the best of me. I think my intent was less like marching, and more like drunken clamor, with bits of the martial thrown in as a way to rouse the troops. So, I think you read correctly that one catches the hint of marching fading in and out. Have you ever heard the Sousa (I think it is) march, where two bands are drawing closer together and farther apart? You hear the sound of one stronger, then the other. I guess it would kind of be like that. However, after you mentioned it, I did look back over it and see some spots that do need tidying up. Such as:

"For it is God we are fighting for!” should be “For it is God we're fighting for!”

because it is the lines of straight iambic tetrameter, that give you that marching feeling.

Also, I think part of the confusion is there is no way to tell who is talking in the non-italicized parts. This is problematic because the first two parts:

Eat, drink and be marry...

and “For it is God we are fighting for!”

are both said by the soldiers.

And also: “God Save the King, To the King’s good health!”

Everything else is said by the king. Everything in italics is the king talking to himself.

Of course that I plop the reader down in the middle of things certainly doesn't help.

Thanks for the follow up.

Dale

---

Billy wrote "sometimes the wysiwyg poems are the best"

I agree, sometimes we try a little to hard to be clever, or worse, profound


Dale

(02-10-2012, 02:30 PM)Erthona Wrote:  “Eat, drink, and be merry,
for tomorrow we shall die.”

(Well at least you dumb young fellas,
those who aren’t hanged for being yellow!
What would be the point of war?) ...got interested in the S-V inversion here, which really places more emphasis on "war" as the last word, over the whole "point of war" if you ended on the verb

“For it is God we are fighting for!”

(if I the King should die?
After all, it is me you fools are really dying for!
this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye ...hm, this line did little for me, especially with its rhyme
if I died, what would be the point?)

“There you go lad, have another joint,
Go ahead, drink large of that good ale,

(Cheap stuff for these fools, all stale,
The good wine for me, but my cup's dry,
There Chamberlain, catch the serving man’s eye,
I have a toast soon to make,
At least my gulp I’ll not fake)

My hearty brave soldiers all.” ...great how this proceeds directly after "fake"

(Although most of these will fall,
those young and dumb, just cannon fodder,
I’ll reclaim their signing gold when they’re martyred,
one of thirty, survive and be some use,
five of thirty will get the noose,
and the rest will be a dying wall of flesh.)

“Good lad, I’m sure you God will bless,
perhaps some day you’ll be a knight!” ...interesting how "blessing", rather than bringing something like sainthood, only annoints you in the military/ material title

(That made his dull eyes bright,
it will happen too, when dark is light.
I worry, to depend on these boys so blind,
target practice for the enemy line,
but they’ll delay them, so my archers can fire a volley.)...not sure you needed the "but they'll delay them"; I think the line before gives enough hint that the men can be used to serve the archers

“What’s that son, oh yes the enemy is full of folly,
Thinking they can stand against our great fighting force,
have you seen your knight upon his horse?
Sir Who? Oh yes he is most ferocious.” ..like this line

(Never heard of him, this boy is quite precocious,
at least for a lad of eight, he’ll never see nine,
he’ll be one of the first, cut down in the line) ...not sure if this commentary was as helpful as the others; I think the exact same sentiments are already expressed wonderfully in the stanza above

“Quite now lads, I your king will make a toast.
To Thee, God’s Glorious fighting host,
Thou art strong as the land, as hickories.
Most surely with such soldiers as thee…. uhm…..….ah!
God will grant Thou the victory! Amen.”

“God Save the King, To the King’s good health!”
(Forget God boys, the King looks out for himself!)


©2012 Erthona

just some thoughts, hope they can be helpful

Thanks for you comments. Sorry it took me so long to respond, been sick the last few days. I've given my rationale for the points you've brought up, which is not to invalidate what you have said, merely to say why I did what I did at the time. I appreciate your comments and will consider them when I do a revision on this, thanks again.

Dale
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"this boy here will die, a dagger in the eye ...hm, this line did little for me, especially with its rhyme
if I died, what would be the point?)"

Probably correct, but I never can resist a pun

-----------------------------------------------------------
"but they’ll delay them, so my archers can fire a volley.)...not sure you needed the "but they'll delay them"; I think the line before gives enough hint that the men can be used to serve the archers"

Just to drive home the point that hundreds of boys are dying in order to gain a just a short amount o time. That it is more than just senseless and wasteful, but obscene.
---------------------------------------------------------
"(Never heard of him, this boy is quite precocious,
at least for a lad of eight, he’ll never see nine,
he’ll be one of the first, cut down in the line) ...not sure if this commentary was as helpful as the others; I think the exact same sentiments are already expressed wonderfully in the stanza above"

IT juxtaposes the boys genuine devotion and the Kings cynicism.