The new music video for Florence + the Machine's song No Light, No Light has been accused of racism in the way it contrasts Christian symbolism with voodoo imagery. Here's the video and an article on why it's being considered racist: http://www.racialicious.com/2011/11/22/n...supremacy/
Do you think the video is problematic? Also, should modern artists be more careful about how they use other cultures for their art?

(02-04-2012, 04:52 PM)Heslopian Wrote:  The new music video for Florence + the Machine's song No Light, No Light has been accused of racism in the way it contrasts Christian symbolism with voodoo imagery. Here's the video and an article on why it's being considered racist: http://www.racialicious.com/2011/11/22/n...supremacy/
Do you think the video is problematic? Also, should modern artists be more careful about how they use other cultures for their art?

no i don't, the same way i don't see a good video as problematic, let's face it, Christianity stole all it's symbolism from other religions anyway. but back on track. i can turn the vid off should i think it un suitable for me, (which i did because it sucked). kids should be given enough information to know it's just a music vid, if they watch this then become racists they were doomed before seeing the vid. i'm seriously sick of the pc brigade. i don't know but has it been censored? does it have an x cert on it. shit, just look at some of the buffoons out their on the world stage, these guys don't even come close. we have films like new moon, underworld, tv series like eternal law, (about angels) and true blood, a whole series that has as it's main features, witchcraft, vampires, werewolves voodoo and christianity.

so no, it's just a crap music vid whatever it professes. jmo

as for artist and the cultures they use; it's been the same for millennia.

I really like the video I don't think it's been censored yet. When I first saw it I didn't look at the ethnic characters as being examples of a specific race. Then I saw all these comments calling it racist. I hate how characters from a certain minority can't be inserted into anything without someone attaching a subtext to it.

let's face it people can look at anything and label it as they want. some will always label a thing in a negative way.
i think if we're all supposed to be the same we should be able to portray them in any given situation.

Yes, there's prejudice there. And it's important to
point it out every time you see it; raise as big a stink
as you have the time for. This is the most common sort:
not skin-heads with swastikas, but everyday ignorance, just
repeating what you see around you without giving a thought
to how it hurts people.

But if I were to get angry about anything, it wouldn't be the
religious/racial/emotional stereotypes, it would be the conceit
of the "artists", and how they really don't give a shit about
what any of the crap they throw together means. But it's hard
to get angry when you're bored. Hey, give me some real Nazis,
some real hate. Much more interesting.

Christianity by definition is ethnocentric. They think they are superior because they know the one truth, "the Good News", not because they think they are racially superior, although many undoubtedly do. It is kind of difficult to feel that you not only know how someone should live their life, but also feel you have a right to tell them about it, and not think that you are superior. Christianity is about God versus the Devil, not White versus Black. The music video is just stupid. It seems to be trying to be epic, but with a very tiny mind to fuel it, it comes off as sophomoric. It appears to me this represents a struggle between sexuality (represented by the voodoo person)with the lover, and the spiritual ecstasy of a relationship with God. However the handling of the symbolism is so clumsily done it seems that the creators of the video were not completely sure what they were meaning to say. This is an equal match for the vague and ambiguous lyrics. Plus, that has to be one of the most mannish looking women I have ever seen, to me she was more repulsive that the vodooer. Shallow, superficial, and obtuse; all the hallmarks of pop culture.

Racialicious seems to be like a lot of those who use race to gain point and make money by taking cheap potshots to stir up any kind of controversy they can so that they might profit financially. Evidently they are ignorant of what "black face" really looks like. This is blackface




Here are two screen shots from the video.


I guess you could call it "blueface". He looks more like night crawler from the x-men. Considering you can't generally see him anyway, as he is moving so fast, and half of the time he has a mask on, I think it is a bit of a stretch to call this Blackface.


Racialicious is not furthering the debate, they are cheapening it.

Dale

while we could complain of every little thing in the media, should we?
a short while a go the philipinne gov made a crap artist take down a crap work of art from a university. the prof of art (or someone like her said, it's art. all the catholics said it isn't it was a mozaic of christian icons and modern day icons like micky mouse et, there was some connection between a condom and the christ. i felt it was a pice of crap though i also thought it carried some relevance. but it was removed, the professor lost her job etc and all the priests and catholics were giggling with happiness. my point is that if we stop the arts from being shown or read we become a sort of racist ourselves. of course we must abide by laws, ie; no child porn even in a poem. but many would depict a poem about an adults struggle with their own child abuse when they were a kid as child porn. personally i wouldn't. for me the vid is just a vid. a crappy one but a just a vid non the less.


do we ban films like purple rain or roots? do we ban films about the holocaust? i say no, i do think that racist crimes are prolific the world over, but if we turn the vid into a crime then where does it end?

.
billy: "...no child porn even in a poem..."

Depicting child porn or child porn? Writing be slippery stuff.
If life has pedophiles and their thoughts, then poems should have them as well.

I watched it but I didn't see racism. I see racism every day of my life and it looks much uglier. That was more like personal interpretation gone awry. What I mean is the voodoo may have been inaccurately represented and the Christian symbols may have been represented, but that just means that the artist/director/producer screwed up not that someone was trying to offend.

Believe it or not, I kind of liked the song. I'd have to read through the lyrics tp puzzle out what in the Hell she is singing about, but its a catchy little tune. The video is cheaply made but fairly inventive for such a low budget- the overall theme of the video was hardly flawless, but it didn't look like a shot in the dark to me. But I will never intentionally listen to that song again. It is marketed to someone else and just isn't my thing.

I can't understand why some people try to squash racism at the root when imo its not something that can ever be completely eradicated. As long as there are human beings there will be social intolerance and trying to bar the representation of a valid social opinion is a terrible strategy. Better to allow uncensored freedoms because the major racist groups don't rely on YouTube to recruit their little skinheads, they have their own promotional videos- and none of them are set to Pop music . . .

They banned Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn, or life on the Mississippi" under the rubric of racism, when in actuality it is one of the earliest American literary pieces satirizing racism. Even though it shows clearly the stupidity in white racism in the form of Huck's father--he thinks he is superior to a well educated black doctor, simply because he is white--and many other examples throughout Huck's and Jim's journey. In fact it is one long commentary giving example after example ridiculing the many manifestations of racism. However it was pulled from high-school libraries because it contained the word "niger". A campaign was formed to get a radio talk show personality fired because he used the word "renege", and people thought it was a racial slur. It is inherent in humans nature for those with little genuine self-esteem to use race, gender, religion, or other differences to try and elevate themselves by denigrating others, it is an effective if crude way to strike out. At the level where it can affect someone's livelihood we should always be vigilant against racism informing decisions, however, to say that a country that has a black president is still racist is to deny reality. To go to the extreme and try to make an issue out of something that is a reach at best, and totally inaccurate at least is ludicrous, but beyond that it cheapens the real discussion about the realities and impact of actual, not perceived racism. Is racism, ignorance of a "cult practice" that leads to inaccurate images used in a crummy music video, or is it simply ignorance, and sophomoric attempts at art? There is a clear distinction between attitudes and beliefs one finds insulting, and when the same are held by someone is in a position of authority. I find Christians who want to impose their beliefs on me, and try to characterize me as bad because I don't go along with those beliefs insulting, but that is part of the public forum, not something that needs to be made an issue of. Being hypersensitive is not the fault of others, but is a fault within ourselves. Being afraid to call the Racialicious attack on the video racial hypersensitivity if genuine and pandering if not, because of the fear we will be labeled as racist, shows that the issue of racism has far exceeded practical or useful bounds. When we elevate group rights above those of the individual we have eradicated liberty.

(02-04-2012, 11:31 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  .
billy: "...no child porn even in a poem..."

Depicting child porn or child porn? Writing be slippery stuff.
If life has pedophiles and their thoughts, then poems should have them as well.

i'm okay with anything in a poem or movie or on canvas but the laws of the land aren't. doing a poem about being molested as a kid would prob not be classed as cp.

doing a poem that glorifies cp would be breaking the law. it's not worth losing the site over it. i'm sure sites about where cp poetry is allowed but this won't be one of them.

the line between both molestations is a rather fine line and as site owner, i'd have to deal with it as it occurred.

---

(02-05-2012, 04:57 AM)Erthona Wrote:  They banned Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn, or life on the Mississippi" under the rubric of racism, when in actuality it is one of the earliest American literary pieces satirizing racism. Even though it shows clearly the stupidity in white racism in the form of Huck's father--he thinks he is superior to a well educated black doctor, simply because he is white--and many other examples throughout Huck's and Jim's journey. In fact it is one long commentary giving example after example ridiculing the many manifestations of racism. However it was pulled from high-school libraries because it contained the word "niger". A campaign was formed to get a radio talk show personality fired because he used the word "renege", and people thought it was a racial slur. It is inherent in humans nature for those with little genuine self-esteem to use race, gender, religion, or other differences to try and elevate themselves by denigrating others, it is an effective if crude way to strike out. At the level where it can affect someone's livelihood we should always be vigilant against racism informing decisions, however, to say that a country that has a black president is still racist is to deny reality. To go to the extreme and try to make an issue out of something that is a reach at best, and totally inaccurate at least is ludicrous, but beyond that it cheapens the real discussion about the realities and impact of actual, not perceived racism. Is racism, ignorance of a "cult practice" that leads to inaccurate images used in a crummy music video, or is it simply ignorance, and sophomoric attempts at art? There is a clear distinction between attitudes and beliefs one finds insulting, and when the same are held by someone is in a position of authority. I find Christians who want to impose their beliefs on me, and try to characterize me as bad because I don't go along with those beliefs insulting, but that is part of the public forum, not something that needs to be made an issue of. Being hypersensitive is not the fault of others, but is a fault within ourselves. Being afraid to call the Racialicious attack on the video racial hypersensitivity if genuine and pandering if not, because of the fear we will be labeled as racist, shows that the issue of racism has far exceeded practical or useful bounds. When we elevate group rights above those of the individual we have eradicated liberty.

i have to agree with the above, and add that the same can be said over many subjects. fat people, thin people, old people, ugly people, cripples, autistic, i think a lot of people need saving from themselves before they start trying to save others.