Amended 8/12/12 - experiment (removal of end of line punctuation..not sure whether capital letters need removing and internal commas)

Lawns
Flowers
Filled hours
with snatched moments
Beneath spreading oaks
an old cob-webbed shed rests
its head on a listing fence
home to bent forks and rusting spades
musty sacks, smashed flower pots and string
Longing for bright sun and sweet smell of spring
Old Joe sits clutching his mug of hot tea
with knotted hands, twisted like briars
evidence of long hours spent
tending shrubberies and paths
ancient hedges and lawns
Back-breaking labour
For his master
and mistress
he’d die
Why?

ps - I pronounce 'flowers etc. with two syllables'

hey, having encountered this form before so it drew me from the beginning

(11-27-2011, 05:07 PM)grannyjill Wrote:  Lawns
Flowers
Filled hours ...really liked these opening three lines
with snatched moments.
Beneath spreading oaks
an old cob-webbed shed rests
its head on a listing fence, ...great personification and image
home to bent forks and rusting spades,
musty sacks, smashed flower pots and string.
Longing for bright sun and sweet smell of spring
Old Joe sits clutching his mug of hot tea
with knotted hands, twisted like briars, ...kind of the opposite of the shed and fence, really nice parallel and placement for it
evidence of long hours spent
tending shrubberies and paths
ancient hedges and lawns.
Back-breaking labour.
For his master
and mistress
he’d die.
Why?

ps - I pronounce 'flowers etc. with two syllables'

I found this poem deceptive. When I thought I had understood it, it revealed new nuances, which I'm sure is a sign of a quality read, or at least meaning that the poem struck me. At first, I wanted to see more hints of this "Old Joe's" touches in the world presented in the first half. Now... I may need more time.

I like the disconnect between the speaker and Joe. It would seem the speaker truly enjoys the scene, until those closing five lines. What a great close you've woven there... at this moment, that is really all I can say right now

Thank you...this was interesting for me to do, and I found out the difference the placement (or total removal) of a full stop can make to a story line.

e.g by removing the full stop at the end of 'moments' these seem to be taken beneath the tree, or at the end of 'string' the shed is longing for Spring! etc.

......is that why some poets don't use punctuation?

(12-01-2011, 04:45 PM)grannyjill Wrote:  ......is that why some poets don't use punctuation?

Yes it is

In fact, if you tried taking all the end-line punctuation out of this, you'd probably find it looks quite a bit cleaner and also leaves the stops up to the reader (which sometimes forces a closer, more thoughtful reading).

I really love that shed image, it's absolutely gorgeous.

I haven't read very many shape poems(if that's even what this is called), but I was impressed by the way not of the enjambment felt forced. Great work in routing the wording in a very clever way. I think I'll come back and check this one again later

Hi Mark, I don't know if this is a shape poem, or not. The rule is that each line is one syllable longer than the previous one (from one to ten) a double etheree does that and then does the same in reverse.

That is quite taxing but the really hard part is in making the end result interesting enough for some-one to read.

(11-27-2011, 05:07 PM)grannyjill Wrote:  Lawns
Flowers
Filled hours
with snatched moments.
Beneath spreading oaks extra space after beneath
an old cob-webbed shed rests
its head on a listing fence,
home to bent forks and rusting spades,
musty sacks, smashed flower pots and string.
Longing for bright sun and sweet smell of spring [there's an extra space after longing
Old Joe sits clutching his mug of hot tea
with knotted hands, twisted like briars, i think it's briers though i could be wrong
evidence of long hours spent
tending shrubberies and paths
ancient hedges and lawns.
Back-breaking labour.
For his master
and mistress
he’d die.
Why?

ps - I pronounce 'flowers etc. with two syllables' so do i

i'll ride Leanne's back and say i think it would be much cleaner form wise without end line punctuation. other than that i think it a great write. as a double etheree or as a poem in general. L6, and 7. were my faves. the space comments are not to be taken as criticism hehe.

a good little read, thanks.

billy, I don't understand 'extra' space comments....I can't see an extra space.

(I think brier might be American spelling)

Thank you for your positive comments

i think the space fairy came and sorted them out so i'd look like a i had so sick sight disease
do forgive me it's my age. bugger me, i was sure there were an extra space. it was the light or the pills or the greenery.
and yes briers is, an american spelling

agin...forgive my mental state and my eyes.


i could have swore there were an extra space ......

I thought you were testing me in some way.....at college we once persuaded a late arrival student that three lines on the blackboard were all the same length (they weren't). The lecturer set up the experiment. If some confident person (or some group) states that something is so...then the tendency is to think you are mistaken rather than not conform.

Now there is an extra space in the above (actually there isn't because the posting corrects the space error!!!!!!mystery solved)

ps I was not fibbing...I hadn't been scanning down to the bottom of the page (where it was staring any sane person in the face)

So here's a question: How much does changing the lay-out to
something like the below change the meaning?

                      Lawns   
                     Flowers
                   Filled   hours
              with  snatched   moments
             Beneath     spreading   oaks
          an   old   cob-webbed   shed   rests
        its    head    on    a    listing   fence
      home  to   bent  forks   and   rusting  spades
    musty  sacks,  smashed  flower  pots   and  string
  Longing  for  bright  sun  and  sweet  smell  of  spring
    Old  Joe  sits   clutching   his  mug   of  hot  tea
      with  knotted  hands,  twisted  like   briars
        evidence    of    long    hours    spent
          tending   shrubberies   and   paths
            ancient    hedges   and   lawns
               Back-breaking    labour
                  For   his   master
                    and  mistress
                      he’d  die
                        Why?


P.S. Lay-out interests me. It's SO easy to use badly (IHMO).
E. E. Cummings used it bunches. See Higgledy Piggledy if interested
in discussing further.

I'd always use a layout like this for a syllabic poem such as an etheree or a rictameter -- it gives the piece an ebb and flow (or flow and ebb ) that a good poet will reinforce with sounds and meaning.

Rictameter! What the heck is that? Don't tell me - I shall have to go and find out for myself.

I would use this, except I ain't got the slightest idea how Ray did it. I should love to try a version which incorporates sounds and meaning (I see, as a simple example, a quiet sea, which becomes ferocious, swallows up a ship and then calms down)

that was it granny, if i click reply to your poem the extra spaces are their, when it's posted they disappear, i'm glad i'm not going senile hehe.

(12-10-2011, 08:01 AM)rayheinrich Wrote:  
So here's a question: How much does changing the lay-out to
something like the below change the meaning?

                      Lawns   
                     Flowers
                   Filled   hours
              with  snatched   moments
             Beneath     spreading   oaks
          an   old   cob-webbed   shed   rests
        its    head    on    a    listing   fence
      home  to   bent  forks   and   rusting  spades
    musty  sacks,  smashed  flower  pots   and  string
  Longing  for  bright  sun  and  sweet  smell  of  spring
    Old  Joe  sits   clutching   his  mug   of  hot  tea
      with  knotted  hands,  twisted  like   briars
        evidence    of    long    hours    spent
          tending   shrubberies   and   paths
            ancient    hedges   and   lawns
               Back-breaking    labour
                  For   his   master
                    and  mistress
                      he’d  die
                        Why?


P.S. Lay-out interests me. It's SO easy to use badly (IHMO).
E. E. Cummings used it bunches. See Higgledy Piggledy if interested
in discussing further.

i think the lay can change some poems, as in enhance, and destroy others by making them look like kitch. here i think it enhances as the first word you see is lawn as well as the  sp we have the [ind] ind
granny ; if you look at the post tags on the top of the forum, it shows you how to use the space tags.