“The smell was intolerable,” said Carlos Amezcua, the head of emergency services in the Guerrero state who participated in the recovery effort.

source;

drug gangs. is the international community doing enough to curtail them.
what can actually be done that isn't being done?
and will anything we or they do make a difference.

legalize everything[the old debate]

(06-09-2010, 10:50 PM)srijantje Wrote:  legalize everything[the old debate]

legalizing drugs is something different which addresses a social or anti social activity.

this is different isn't it? there will always be gangs and warlords and kidnapping etc in mexico, columbia etc. do we legalize those things as well ? basically what ever we do regards legalizing drugs will just make them move on to other things.

i say do a concerted effort of shooting them down. just kill the bastards in their beds. reclaim their towns and cities. do the same with known gang-lords everywhere. don't bother with the courts, just put contracts out on them.

you're right ofcourse,people like that would just move on to other things

would assassinations for them be too drastic a thing to contemplate?

yes,you do the same as them,although out of a different motive,the root problems have to be adressed

thats a valid point.

so the discussion changes to;

how does the solve the root problem of gang-lords.
first we'd have to define them,

i'd say they wee poverty, fear, lack of education
and bad government

which one would we tackle first ?

well,i would say all the above comes out of bad government,they are the ones who can pass legislation ,that's what they're voted in for,but that's not what they do.for as long as i remember we're supposed to do something about starvation,have a meeting here have another one 5 years later,give a few mill.here and there,yet,the banking system gets into trouble of it's own fault and within weeks there are trillion of dollars available,so it's obvious where the priority's of governments lie,that's got to change

yeah, we can find billions to help out banks but stand by and watch millions starve.

that aside. the kind of culture thats rife in the mexican border towns is largely a byproduct of poor education and poverty. i thnk they're the things that need tackling first.

why can't we or they simply destroy every poppy field and coca tree that isn't grown under license.

i do realize that in the like of Afghanistan it's the only way to earn a living. as well as fear playing it's part.

surely we can do something?

poor education and poverty have to be tackled by the governments,so good and responsible politicians is a must.in afghanistan what you do is buy up all the opium you can lay your hands on and either use it in the pharm.industry or destroy it,i guarantee you that's cheaper than waging the war on drugs

(06-10-2010, 11:58 PM)srijantje Wrote:  poor education and poverty have to be tackled by the governments,so good and responsible politicians is a must.in afghanistan what you do is buy up all the opium you can lay your hands on and either use it in the pharm.industry or destroy it,i guarantee you that's cheaper than waging the war on drugs

i agree. it may seem stupid but if at the same time you can introduce cash crops other than poppy at the same time it would even be more beneficial. another way would be to sit down and discuss how much a filed of poppy brings. instead of just buying the drugs. pay them to harvest something else. not ideal but over the long term much cheaper, more productive and less insidious.

yes,and you may make some friends in stead of enemy's by wading into poppy fields and destroying them,certainly worth a try i reckon

sadly i think it's too late for them to change strategies
i can't see them staying there much longer.

loose face you mean?they'll do that anyway

they'll call it a strategic withdrawal
in order to allow the afghan gov more control of their own policies lol

read the article in the afghan thread,it's a sign on the wall,they're gonna cut their losses and run

(06-10-2010, 11:58 PM)srijantje Wrote:  poor education and poverty have to be tackled by the governments,so good and responsible politicians is a must.in afghanistan what you do is buy up all the opium you can lay your hands on and either use it in the pharm.industry or destroy it,i guarantee you that's cheaper than waging the war on drugs

The war on drugs is a fucking joke!
We keep funneling money into a program that has no merit
or benefit to anyone.
The only ones it helps are the police who pocket some
and then they do God knows what with the rest.
Here in the US we put drug users in jail to suck up space
that is needed for more violent offenders.
Drug users tend to be non-violent offenders only committing petty {mostly}
crimes to support their habits,not killing or molesting children.
Those people should be remanded to a treatment facility when necessary.
Every country should have "Treatment on demand".
If you were to legalize drugs {all} then the gansters would have to move on to something else why not legalize prostitution also which is a "victimless crime" in my opinion that would make things
extremely hard for those inclined to be gansta's.
C.B.

(06-12-2010, 07:11 PM)srijantje Wrote:  read the article in the afghan thread,it's a sign on the wall,they're gonna cut their losses and run

Once we captured Saddam we should have split from Iraq.

the war on drugs is kept alive by the anti drug mafia and associates [read gov.agencies]

and why stop there, why stomack pump them or clean them up when they overdose etc, why not just let them die, and save money at the same time.

while i agree that jail is oten too strict a punishment. the cost for rehab of a single junkie could pay to lock one of those child molesters up.

legalizing weed etc would talke a lot of the drug users off the crime books. but heroin. if you legalize heroin it will still be sold on the streets illegally. but i'm going off topic.

the people down the shaft, while some will be gangsta's some will be innocent victims held for ransom then killed.

just an edit to add, if you're son or daughter was a heroin addict, you wouldn't call it a victimless crime. you'd want the drug dealer.
if you legalize heroin you allow people to still buy drugs off these people, to steal (the soft crimes) from parents etc in order to get a fix. in truth i've seen familes of these so called soft crimes destroyed because someone in their family was a junky.

i'd sooner be burgled ( a very hard crime) than have my daughters sell me out of house and home to get a fix, i'd sooner be beaten than have them end up in some pimps string just so they can get a fix. some of these soft crimes are soft crimes, unless you have to face them yourselves.

(06-13-2010, 07:26 PM)billy Wrote:  and why stop there, why stomack pump them or clean them up when they overdose etc, why not just let them die, and save money at the same time.

Billy the cost for treatment in a public methadone facility this year {April 2010} is $5,200 a year for drugs and counseling seven days a week.
I'd wager that is much less the the cost of a funeral or incarceration my dear.

while i agree that jail is oten too strict a punishment. the cost for rehab of a single junkie could pay to lock one of those child molesters up.
No I don't believe that Billy.
You don't let them die because it isn't humane
nor is it the right thing to do.
Treatment with "Dolophine" is very cheap to manufacture.

legalizing weed etc would talke a lot of the drug users off the crime books. but heroin. if you legalize heroin it will still be sold on the streets illegally. but i'm going off topic.
Heroin would not be sold on the streets if the government is doling it out and collecting taxes on it.

the people down the shaft, while some will be gangsta's some will be innocent victims held for ransom then killed.

just an edit to add, if you're son or daughter was a heroin addict, you wouldn't call it a victimless crime. you'd want the drug dealer.
if you legalize heroin you allow people to still buy drugs off these people, to steal (the soft crimes) from parents etc in order to get a fix. in truth i've seen familes of these so called soft crimes destroyed because someone in their family was a junky.
Why would junkies pay potentially more money to buy illegally
than to purchase it cheaply from a reputable agent of the gov.?
That makes no sense at all!
There wouldn't be a need for street corner hustlers
if you could buy it legally somewhere safe.
It would perhaps solve some of our deficits also no?

i'd sooner be burgled ( a very hard crime) than have my daughters sell me out of house and home to get a fix, i'd sooner be beaten than have them end up in some pimps string just so they can get a fix. some of these soft crimes are soft crimes, unless you have to face them yourselves.

Billy when I refer to "victimless crime"
I am only speaking of prostitution exclusively.
I was a junkie for 14+ years and I have now been clean for 15+ years
so I do know how it can destroy families firsthand.
I worked every single day that I was doing dope and never robbed anyone
or hurt anyone other than myself and inadvertently my family.
C.B.

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(06-13-2010, 02:04 PM)srijantje Wrote:  the war on drugs is kept alive by the anti drug mafia and associates [read gov.agencies]

Actually srijante the "Mafia" has been a major importer of drugs into this country for more than 40 years or so.
The USA was founded on an opium based
monetary system in the early years long before gold was king.
C.B.