I was reading Frost today (followed someone to the thread) and marveling over reading a true master in his use of meter.  One of the techniques he leans on heavily is the pyrrhic/spondee substitution.  Now metrically, pyrrhic isn't even really a foot that is used in crafting poetry.  It is 2 consecutive unstressed syllables.  It is almost always used to describe what is happening here:  --'' dadaDUMDUM.  One of the odd qualities of the pyrrhic spondee sub is that it feels and sounds GREAT when reading, unlike most substitutions in metric poetry, it feels deliberate and musical.  It also has the effect of racing to a strong emphasis.

Why is this so useful?  There are a lot of great words we want to use in metric poetry (abacus came to mind recently).  Can't do that, someone might say, not in my sonnet.

Enter the wonderful pyhhric/spondee substitution:

I think I need an abacus post haste  (not a great line, only for demonstration)

daDUM daDUM daDUM dada DUMDUM

perfect.  Here are some examples from Frost:

" I feel the ladder sway as the boughs bend." - end
" Of the great harvest I myself desired." - beginning

There are many more.

pshaw - I hear you say, I don't bother myself with old fashioned rhyme and meter.

That's ok, you can get many of the delightful effects even in your "natural rhythm" free verse poems.

I used it a few times (perhaps a few times too many) in a free verse poem I posted here very recently.

Go ahead, give it a try

Today I saw a sight that puzzled me:
an abacus wielding robot: redundancy
made manifest. A Sigmund Freud
reading humanoid
I next observed. The sick android
people watched, fair maidens perved.
What now? Machine writ poetry
on the horror of rust, metallic void?

---

It’s not a spondee
I just wanted to use “abacus”

Ugh, I'm so out of practice I feel the wheels grinding just reading your explanation. But yes, I'm in favor of all loop holes that work. I think having a skeleton, preferably almost invisible, to hang the poem on can give it a substance that a reader can feel. Meter, rhyme, the japanese forms with syllable/line count can all pull the reader along, ideally without them even noticing. It's often difficult to work within a framework and still have it read as naturally as free verse but it's fun to attempt and when successful gets those poems to really stick.

(01-08-2026, 04:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Today I saw a sight that puzzled me:
an abacus wielding robot: redundancy
made manifest. A Sigmund Freud
reading humanoid
I next observed. The sick android
people watched, fair maidens perved.
What now? Machine writ poetry
on the horror of rust, metallic void?

---

It’s not a spondee
I just wanted to use “abacus”

Solid use of abacus.  

Can you think of any line at all even using a different word that sets up the substitution?

---

(01-08-2026, 04:44 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  Ugh, I'm so out of practice I feel the wheels grinding just reading your explanation. But yes, I'm in favor of all loop holes that work. I think having a skeleton, preferably almost invisible, to hang the poem on can give it a substance that a reader can feel. Meter, rhyme, the japanese forms with syllable/line count can all pull the reader along, ideally without them even noticing. It's often difficult to work within a framework and still have it read as naturally as free verse but it's fun to attempt and when successful gets those poems to really stick.

I think like with anything else, practicing makes it more natural.Maybe we should set up one of those add a line threads or something for practice? Lord knows I could use a refresher

(01-08-2026, 04:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Today I saw a sight that puzzled me:
an abacus wielding robot: redundancy
made manifest. A Sigmund Freud
reading humanoid
I next observed. The sick android
people watched, fair maidens perved.
What now? Machine writ poetry
on the horror of rust, metallic void?

---

It’s not a spondee
I just wanted to use “abacus”

ha, rusty as I am it was hard work to read and figure out the meter at the the same time but seems very well done to me.

I have already spent an inordinate amount of time on abacus, now try it as an end rhyme, or don't lol. But what leaves me flummoxed dealing with meter is the problem of sometimes finding out that you, and your community, do not pronounce a word the same way as the rest of the world does. Decisions must be made.

(01-08-2026, 04:57 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 04:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Today I saw a sight that puzzled me:
an abacus wielding robot: redundancy
made manifest. A Sigmund Freud
reading humanoid
I next observed. The sick android
people watched, fair maidens perved.
What now? Machine writ poetry
on the horror of rust, metallic void?

---

It’s not a spondee
I just wanted to use “abacus”

ha, rusty as I am it was hard work to read and figure out the meter at the the same time but seems very well done to me.

I have already spent an inordinate amount of time on abacus, now try it as an end rhyme, or don't lol. But what leaves me flummoxed dealing with meter is the problem of sometimes finding out that you, and your community, do not pronounce a word the same way as the rest of the world does. Decisions must be made.

Ella, are you a New Yorker?
They have a distinct way of speaking for sure! ?

(01-08-2026, 06:18 AM)busker Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 04:57 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 04:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Today I saw a sight that puzzled me:
an abacus wielding robot: redundancy
made manifest. A Sigmund Freud
reading humanoid
I next observed. The sick android
people watched, fair maidens perved.
What now? Machine writ poetry
on the horror of rust, metallic void?

---

It’s not a spondee
I just wanted to use “abacus”

ha, rusty as I am it was hard work to read and figure out the meter at the the same time but seems very well done to me.

I have already spent an inordinate amount of time on abacus, now try it as an end rhyme, or don't lol. But what leaves me flummoxed dealing with meter is the problem of sometimes finding out that you, and your community, do not pronounce a word the same way as the rest of the world does. Decisions must be made.

Ella, are you a New Yorker?
They have a distinct way of speaking for sure! ?

lol you got it!

I saw the red kite flying high in a black sky

(01-08-2026, 08:45 AM)milo Wrote:  I saw the red kite flying high in a black sky

So you're saying an occassional line like that might fly? If a poem was full of that it seems I wouldn't notice any set meter at all.

(01-08-2026, 09:11 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 08:45 AM)milo Wrote:  I saw the red kite flying high in a black sky

So you're saying an occassional line like that might fly? If a poem was full of that it seems I wouldn't notice any set meter at all.

First, you definitely would notice this if it was held continuously because it is almost impossible, I made double subs here because I was practicing my spondees too much, lets see what it looks like and what we can do to fix it:

i SAW the RED KITE flying HIGH ina a BLACK SKY

iamb iamb troche iamb pyrrhic Spondee

So I did get the spondee sub and this would actually be completely acceptable in a line of iambic HEXAMETER but that wasn't the challenge so lets fix it:

One, there are too many feet
Two, there is the trochaic sub that was not part of the challenge

I saw the sparrow fly in a black sky

iSAW theSPAR rowFLY ina BLACK SKY

iamb iamb iamb pyrrhic spondee

Good catch

(01-08-2026, 09:23 AM)milo Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 09:11 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  

(01-08-2026, 08:45 AM)milo Wrote:  I saw the red kite flying high in a black sky

So you're saying an occassional line like that might fly? If a poem was full of that it seems I wouldn't notice any set meter at all.

First, you definitely would notice this if it was held continuously because it is almost impossible, I made double subs here because I was practicing my spondees too much, lets see what it looks like and what we can do to fix it:

i SAW the RED KITE flying HIGH ina a BLACK SKY

iamb iamb troche iamb pyrrhic Spondee

So I did get the spondee sub and this would actually be completely acceptable in a line of iambic HEXAMETER but that wasn't the challenge so lets fix it:

One, there are too many feet
Two, there is the trochaic sub that was not part of the challenge

I saw the sparrow fly in a black sky

iSAW theSPAR rowFLY ina BLACK SKY

iamb iamb iamb pyrrhic spondee

Good catch

lol, newbie luck. But thanks for making it so clear.

Ok, where is yours?

Today I made my favorite cat jump.

Yes?

(01-08-2026, 11:48 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  Today I made my favorite cat jump.

Yes?

Yep

---

by placing him on top of a red pole

So is this used in blank verse also? I would think without rhyme to pull the cart it might be more disruptive. Just asking.

(01-10-2026, 02:13 AM)wasellajam Wrote:  So is this used in blank verse also? I would think without rhyme to pull the cart it might be more disruptive. Just asking.

yes!  This works fantastically in blank verse, I will look around to see if I can find some famous examples

The rhythm makes me think of Emily Dickinson.  Is her favorite first-line pattern the same thing as above, or is it something else? 
"I heard a fly buzz when I died," "I started early --- took my dog," "It was not Death, for I stood up," "There is no frigate like a book," "The mushroom is the elf of plants," "A narrow fellow in the grass" ...

It also makes me think of Joyce Kilmer's "Trees" 
"I think that I shall never see
a poem as lovely as a tree."
etc. 

It seems like your examples have more syllables than these. Is that a necessary element, that it is done in a sonnet line? Or does it count in any form as long as the last four syllables do the dadaDUMDUM bit?

Rhythm is not my forte---trying to make sure I understand what differentiates one thing from another.  Thank you, this is a fun topic.

(01-10-2026, 03:37 AM)Quixilated Wrote:  The rhythm makes me think of Emily Dickinson.  Is her favorite first-line pattern the same thing as above, or is it something else? 
"I heard a fly buzz when I died," "I started early --- took my dog," "It was not Death, for I stood up," "There is no frigate like a book," "The mushroom is the elf of plants," "A narrow fellow in the grass" ...

This is actually the more popular trochaic substitution.  I intended to do a thread on that next but  . . . eh, we will see.

Quote:It also makes me think of Joyce Kilmer's "Trees" 
"I think that I shall never see
a poem as lovely as a tree."
etc. 

Really, meter is just getting a set rhythm in your head.  You can do this easily enough by reading some metric verse or even just saying to yourself daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUM for a few lines.

These lines are perfect iambic tetrameter (4 sets of daDUM daDUM)

I think that I shall never see

daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUM


he ellides poem in L2 so it is "POME"

Quote:It seems like your examples have more syllables than these. Is that a necessary element, that it is done in a sonnet line? Or does it count in any form as long as the last four syllables do the dadaDUMDUM bit?

Rhythm is not my forte---trying to make sure I understand what differentiates one thing from another.  Thank you, this is a fun topic.

so, the most common meter for a sonnet by a long stretch is iambic pentameter which just means 5 iambs in a row.  You can use substitutions in tetrameter but it does become more noticeable because every substitution takes up 2 of your four feet .

try saying to yourself 

daDUM daDUM daDUM dada DUMDUM

a few times and see if you can come up with a nonsense line that follows that rhythm