I think play is important. I think being daft is important. I think being uninhibited/unselfconscious is important. I think in play we can become familiar with the state of spontaneity (life without striving), and that state of spontaneity is essential and foundational to creativity and to expression - meaning the unconscious manifestation of reality (truth). When I look at modern poetry today, I don't see play, I don't see people being daft or silly, I don't see people being uninhibited, unintentional or unconcerned (free). Instead I see a tendency to being uniformly serious, and to being sensible (self-conscious), and seriousness now being the generally exclusive (obligate) mode, I feel that something has gone wrong with poetry. I feel that it has lost its way.

What I don’t see is humour, satire, protest or social commentary as a living vein of power in the body of Poetry today. I am not suggesting that seriousness is not valid and valuable, but that seriousness loses its meaning where there is no living counterpoint to measure it against.

Where are you looking, Leanne was the biggest advocate for play, her stuff is all over this page. Play is important for learning, people play games to stay sharp. Im tired of playing, the world is crushing my soul

(10-21-2025, 04:51 PM)tun Wrote:  I think play is important. I think being daft is important. I think being uninhibited/unselfconscious is important. I think in play we can become familiar with the state of spontaneity (life without striving), and that state of spontaneity is essential and foundational to creativity and to expression - meaning the unconscious manifestation of reality (truth). When I look at modern poetry today, I don't see play, I don't see people being daft or silly, I don't see people being uninhibited, unintentional or unconcerned (free). Instead I see a tendency to being uniformly serious, and to being sensible (self-conscious), and seriousness now being the generally exclusive (obligate) mode, I feel that something has gone wrong with poetry. I feel that it has lost its way.

What I don’t see is humour, satire, protest or social commentary as a living vein of power in the body of Poetry today. I am not suggesting that seriousness is not valid and valuable, but that seriousness loses its meaning where there is no living counterpoint to measure it against.

The trouble with being playful (in public) is that it leaves the player vulnerable in various interrelated ways.  First, there's the charge of being literally (literature-aly) insane:  "you believe that?  why are you always talking about unicorns and fairies?"  In a related vein, humor (which cannot be separated from unmotivated playfulness) has an edge - all the best jokes have a moral component.  Which means some readers will feel hurt - responding with "that's not funny!" while others just don't get it - instead of pretending not to.  Similarly, but worse, some will feel - or pretend to feel - threatened and endangered.

Furthermore, the humorless make, by far, the best butts of humor... so once play starts, they run in smaller and smaller circles until the only escape is to attack someone - in some cases not figuratively.  Or to climb into a safe bubble where no discouraging - or true - words are permitted.

So it's true, play can be dangerous - and not even playing near the edge.  Though in the mirror-nature of modernity, those anticipating danger are the more dangerous by far.

**********

Anyway, political poetry is always free verse, and I suck at it. 

(10-21-2025, 09:25 PM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  Where are you looking, Leanne was the biggest advocate for play, her stuff is all over this page.  Play is important for learning, people play games to stay sharp.  Im tired of playing, the world is crushing my soul

When you say 'the world' - the world is people. What have they done wrong now?

---

(10-21-2025, 09:51 PM)dukealien Wrote:  

(10-21-2025, 04:51 PM)tun Wrote:  I think play is important. I think being daft is important. I think being uninhibited/unselfconscious is important. I think in play we can become familiar with the state of spontaneity (life without striving), and that state of spontaneity is essential and foundational to creativity and to expression - meaning the unconscious manifestation of reality (truth). When I look at modern poetry today, I don't see play, I don't see people being daft or silly, I don't see people being uninhibited, unintentional or unconcerned (free). Instead I see a tendency to being uniformly serious, and to being sensible (self-conscious), and seriousness now being the generally exclusive (obligate) mode, I feel that something has gone wrong with poetry. I feel that it has lost its way.

What I don’t see is humour, satire, protest or social commentary as a living vein of power in the body of Poetry today. I am not suggesting that seriousness is not valid and valuable, but that seriousness loses its meaning where there is no living counterpoint to measure it against.

The trouble with being playful (in public) is that it leaves the player vulnerable in various interrelated ways.  First, there's the charge of being literally (literature-aly) insane:  "you believe that?  why are you always talking about unicorns and fairies?"  In a related vein, humor (which cannot be separated from unmotivated playfulness) has an edge - all the best jokes have a moral component.  Which means some readers will feel hurt - responding with "that's not funny!" while others just don't get it - instead of pretending not to.  Similarly, but worse, some will feel - or pretend to feel - threatened and endangered.

Furthermore, the humorless make, by far, the best butts of humor... so once play starts, they run in smaller and smaller circles until the only escape is to attack someone - in some cases not figuratively.  Or to climb into a safe bubble where no discouraging - or true - words are permitted.

So it's true, play can be dangerous - and not even playing near the edge.  Though in the mirror-nature of modernity, those anticipating danger are the more dangerous by far.

**********

Anyway, political poetry is always free verse, and I suck at it. 

Look are you saying you only do metered verse?

(10-22-2025, 03:05 AM)tun Wrote:  [


When you say 'the world' - the world is people. What have they done wrong now?

When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

(10-22-2025, 03:05 AM)tun Wrote:  

Quote: ...
Anyway, political poetry is always free verse, and I suck at it. 

Look are you saying you only do metered verse?

No, only that I suck less at metered.  (Does anyone remember taxicabs (before Uber™ ) so I can make a joke about keeping my meter running?)

(10-22-2025, 04:31 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 03:05 AM)tun Wrote:  [


When you say 'the world' - the world is people. What have they done wrong now?

When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

What are these 'shows' and 'projects'?

Now the thing is, historically, artists and creative people generally come from family money. You know, you can't be an artist really unless you've got family money so that you don't have to work, right? Because nearly everybody you've heard of, whether it's Cezanne, Matisse, Picasso, Manet, anyone you want to mention, right? They come from family money, right? Ordinary people don't have access to the life of an artist, do they?

Writers too, it's the same. Nearly everybody you've ever heard of, they're from the elite families. This is all nepotism on steroids. It's a club, and we're not in it. That's all there is to it. If you haven't got the private income, the independent means, the family money, that's all there is to it. You're nothing. This is a game. It's a party, and we're not invited.

What about, you know, the great American Art, the painting of the 20th century, the Abstract Expressionism? That was a CIA project. All those artists were CIA assets. They were paid. They were given a job. They were working for the man, right? They were doing what they were told, right? Some of them were talented, but there's talent in any cohort, right? But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't just get 'spotted', okay? They weren't just picked up because they were 'talented'. They were lucky enough to get a job doing what the man wanted them to do. That's abstract expressionism - propaganda.

This is what it all is. All of it. Everything we've ever been shown. It's all this. It's a game. It's a party. And we're not invited. It is all propaganda.

(10-22-2025, 01:59 PM)tun Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 04:31 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 03:05 AM)tun Wrote:  [


When you say 'the world' - the world is people. What have they done wrong now?

When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

What are these 'shows' and 'projects'?

Now the thing is, historically, artists and creative people generally come from family money. You know, you can't be an artist really unless you've got family money so that you don't have to work, right? Because nearly everybody you've heard of, whether it's Cezanne, Matisse, Picasso, Manet, anyone you want to mention, right? They come from family money, right? Ordinary people don't have access to the life of an artist, do they?

Writers too, it's the same. Nearly everybody you've ever heard of, they're from the elite families. This is all nepotism on steroids. It's a club, and we're not in it. That's all there is to it. If you haven't got the private income, the independent means, the family money, that's all there is to it. You're nothing. This is a game. It's a party, and we're not invited.

What about, you know, the great American Art, the painting of the 20th century, the Abstract Expressionism? That was a CIA project. All those artists were CIA assets. They were paid. They were given a job. They were working for the man, right? They were doing what they were told, right? Some of them were talented, but there's talent in any cohort, right? But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't just get 'spotted', okay? They weren't just picked up because they were 'talented'. They were lucky enough to get a job doing what the man wanted them to do. That's abstract expressionism - propaganda.

This is what it all is. All of it. Everything we've ever been shown. It's all this. It's a game. It's a party. And we're not invited. It is all propaganda.

All these artists you mention are the ones the aliens are learning about our world from. But the interactions between us are driven by art.  For every one artist you know about there's 100 or more you dont, but they know each other.  And the art will find a way to be made without the support of family or friends, whether you hear about it or not.

I agree with the propaganda, but the plight is deeper, add in the emotional ups and downs that often come with it

I think the reason you aren't seeing the "play" you wish to see is there are more dominant forms of expressing not just humor, but art in general nowadays, combined with the fact poetry is basically a dead art.

Sad as truth may be, the purpose of poetry (and art in general) is deeply personal, so while yes, the mainstream isn't consuming/producing poetry like they once were, it just takes one poem to affect one person in a positive way, and it could be argued that poem has served its purpose.

For example, William Butler Yeats published a poem in 1927, those words lived on and inspired a guy to create No Country For Old Men, a great fucking movie if it was to be understated.

And that's the in your face version. There's no telling what kind of soft undertones poems and poetry has laid for man, whether a single man or many; there's no telling what poems have helped shaped minds, have helped identities flourish, have saved lives, and perhaps even cost some. Milo has some of the funniest poems I've ever read, and his wordplay forced me to smile during some very bad days. I wish I could remember his poem about socks that went "Holey, holey, holey" I'm pretty sure that was the entire poem.

It seems like so many poets write because they read a poem and were inspired. A poet inherently wants reverence and distinction from society, and we're in a day and age where the only way to get that is to write something serious. Something poking at white meat, something memorable.

CRNDL,
I'm sorry about your first-world problems, but they are exactly that. At least your problem is not money! Suffering from a successful business is not the worst fate, even for a poet. As for your attempts to create an audience from family and friends, please realize that not only is poetry not everyone's cup of tea, it's like fucking castor oil to many, especially if they're enduring a performance with an expectation from the performer. You're crushing yourself. It does not matter if you are appreciated in this life in the next. What matters is you put the pen to the paper and get out whatever it is you feel you need to get out. The universe has a way of responding to greatness, if you create something important it will be remembered and utilized in ways one could never predict, at an undisclosed space/time. You are not alone, and your works will create whatever it is they need to create from the world. And with all that said, it doesn't fucking matter when the words are written. You will have a day, a moment, a breath to create that which compels you. I selfishly hope its something good, for my sake.

and finally Tun,
There is a term in the hip-hop world: Industry Plant. An artist who was artificially created and placed to do one thing, generate $$$. This is a historical trend, yes. But that doesn't mean that all artists had their success handed to them on a silver platter. I've never been into visual art, so I can't speak on the history of it, but as far as music goes, many musicians came from nothing and experienced meteoric rises from their talent and skills alone. Sure they might've got fucked by a record label, but that's beside the point.

My point is this: Ordinary people don't get to spend all day creating art because ordinary people do not create meaningful works of art. They create shit that is propagated by their own ego, and perhaps a few others. An ordinary person is not an artist, or at least not a good one, another sad truth. It takes an extraordinary mind to create something so compelling and beautiful the world can view it and collectively go: wow. That was amazing.

So to add to your statement: You can't be an artist really unless you've got family money, or if you are an ordinary human being, or at least make a livable wage as one.

As for your conspiracy theory, whether it's validated or not, that is a rabbit hole I've not gone down and maybe will one day, sounds pretty interesting, but also pretty far-fetched from an uninformed standpoint.

But basically this: Yes it's a game, it's a party, and you are not invited, but not because you're broke, but because you suck. Now get back to being a productive member of society and quit daydreaming about writing wank poems all day, ya filthy degenerate.

I was a lot more eager to play when I was homeless

(10-22-2025, 08:41 PM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 01:59 PM)tun Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 04:31 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

What are these 'shows' and 'projects'?

Now the thing is, historically, artists and creative people generally come from family money. You know, you can't be an artist really unless you've got family money so that you don't have to work, right? Because nearly everybody you've heard of, whether it's Cezanne, Matisse, Picasso, Manet, anyone you want to mention, right? They come from family money, right? Ordinary people don't have access to the life of an artist, do they?

Writers too, it's the same. Nearly everybody you've ever heard of, they're from the elite families. This is all nepotism on steroids. It's a club, and we're not in it. That's all there is to it. If you haven't got the private income, the independent means, the family money, that's all there is to it. You're nothing. This is a game. It's a party, and we're not invited.

What about, you know, the great American Art, the painting of the 20th century, the Abstract Expressionism? That was a CIA project. All those artists were CIA assets. They were paid. They were given a job. They were working for the man, right? They were doing what they were told, right? Some of them were talented, but there's talent in any cohort, right? But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't just get 'spotted', okay? They weren't just picked up because they were 'talented'. They were lucky enough to get a job doing what the man wanted them to do. That's abstract expressionism - propaganda.

This is what it all is. All of it. Everything we've ever been shown. It's all this. It's a game. It's a party. And we're not invited. It is all propaganda.

All these artists you mention are the ones the aliens are learning about our world from. But the interactions between us are driven by art.  For every one artist you know about there's 100 or more you dont, but they know each other.  And the art will find a way to be made without the support of family or friends, whether you hear about it or not.

I agree with the propaganda, but the plight is deeper, add in the emotional ups and downs that often come with it

I don't think the aliens are learning anything from our Salon Art. They can see what it is - a perversion of real authenticity. I don't see that our interactions as 'driven by Art.' But rather by belonging or not belonging. If our interactions were driven by Art - we would not have had the pandemic - everybody would have rejected it immediately.

---

(10-22-2025, 08:42 PM)Weeded Wrote:  I think the reason you aren't seeing the "play" you wish to see is there are more dominant forms of expressing not just humor, but art in general nowadays, combined with the fact poetry is basically a dead art.

Sad as truth may be, the purpose of poetry (and art in general) is deeply personal, so while yes, the mainstream isn't consuming/producing poetry like they once were, it just takes one poem to affect one person in a positive way, and it could be argued that poem has served its purpose.

For example, William Butler Yeats published a poem in 1927, those words lived on and inspired a guy to create No Country For Old Men, a great fucking movie if it was to be understated.

And that's the in your face version. There's no telling what kind of soft undertones poems and poetry has laid for man, whether a single man or many; there's no telling what poems have helped shaped minds, have helped identities flourish, have saved lives, and perhaps even cost some. Milo has some of the funniest poems I've ever read, and his wordplay forced me to smile during some very bad days. I wish I could remember his poem about socks that went "Holey, holey, holey" I'm pretty sure that was the entire poem.

It seems like so many poets write because they read a poem and were inspired. A poet inherently wants reverence and distinction from society, and we're in a day and age where the only way to get that is to write something serious. Something poking at white meat, something memorable.

CRNDL,
I'm sorry about your first-world problems, but they are exactly that. At least your problem is not money! Suffering from a successful business is not the worst fate, even for a poet. As for your attempts to create an audience from family and friends, please realize that not only is poetry not everyone's cup of tea, it's like fucking castor oil to many, especially if they're enduring a performance with an expectation from the performer. You're crushing yourself. It does not matter if you are appreciated in this life in the next. What matters is you put the pen to the paper and get out whatever it is you feel you need to get out. The universe has a way of responding to greatness, if you create something important it will be remembered and utilized in ways one could never predict, at an undisclosed space/time. You are not alone, and your works will create whatever it is they need to create from the world. And with all that said, it doesn't fucking matter when the words are written. You will have a day, a moment, a breath to create that which compels you. I selfishly hope its something good, for my sake.

and finally Tun,
There is a term in the hip-hop world: Industry Plant. An artist who was artificially created and placed to do one thing, generate $$$. This is a historical trend, yes. But that doesn't mean that all artists had their success handed to them on a silver platter. I've never been into visual art, so I can't speak on the history of it, but as far as music goes, many musicians came from nothing and experienced meteoric rises from their talent and skills alone. Sure they might've got fucked by a record label, but that's beside the point.

My point is this: Ordinary people don't get to spend all day creating art because ordinary people do not create meaningful works of art. They create shit that is propagated by their own ego, and perhaps a few others. An ordinary person is not an artist, or at least not a good one, another sad truth. It takes an extraordinary mind to create something so compelling and beautiful the world can view it and collectively go: wow. That was amazing.

So to add to your statement: You can't be an artist really unless you've got family money, or if you are an ordinary human being, or at least make a livable wage as one.

As for your conspiracy theory, whether it's validated or not, that is a rabbit hole I've not gone down and maybe will one day, sounds pretty interesting, but also pretty far-fetched from an uninformed standpoint.

But basically this: Yes it's a game, it's a party, and you are not invited, but not because you're broke, but because you suck. Now get back to being a productive member of society and quit daydreaming about writing wank poems all day, ya filthy degenerate.

Your comment is very vague. It is hysterical. It is terribly imprecise in its formulations. As it is I cannot respond to it further.

(10-22-2025, 01:59 PM)tun Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 04:31 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 03:05 AM)tun Wrote:  [


When you say 'the world' - the world is people. What have they done wrong now?

When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

What are these 'shows' and 'projects'?

Now the thing is, historically, artists and creative people generally come from family money. You know, you can't be an artist really unless you've got family money so that you don't have to work, right? Because nearly everybody you've heard of, whether it's Cezanne, Matisse, Picasso, Manet, anyone you want to mention, right? They come from family money, right? Ordinary people don't have access to the life of an artist, do they?

Writers too, it's the same. Nearly everybody you've ever heard of, they're from the elite families. This is all nepotism on steroids. It's a club, and we're not in it. That's all there is to it. If you haven't got the private income, the independent means, the family money, that's all there is to it. You're nothing. This is a game. It's a party, and we're not invited.

What about, you know, the great American Art, the painting of the 20th century, the Abstract Expressionism? That was a CIA project. All those artists were CIA assets. They were paid. They were given a job. They were working for the man, right? They were doing what they were told, right? Some of them were talented, but there's talent in any cohort, right? But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't just get 'spotted', okay? They weren't just picked up because they were 'talented'. They were lucky enough to get a job doing what the man wanted them to do. That's abstract expressionism - propaganda.

This is what it all is. All of it. Everything we've ever been shown. It's all this. It's a game. It's a party. And we're not invited. It is all propaganda.

The fact that you have access to a phone and the internet tells me that you have “family money”.
Because your bar seems to be “if you’re not a poor peasant’s son dying of the plague you’re privileged”.

Ergo Michelangelo, Cellini, Mozart all had “family money” because their parents didn’t sell time to Moroccan corsairs in exchange for a bag of rice.

If we make the bar slightly more sensible then we see that until modern times, universal education and literacy were not the norm, and so writers were either slaves (ancient times) or the “elite” middle class that didn’t work on farms. Or the priesthood. Even then, Shakespeare earned a living not from royalties but from his share in the acting companies. Keats worked in hospitals. The monks who copied out the New Testament earned nothing.

In modern times, you have no such excuse. Almost every body in the west has a better standard of living and greater access to wealth as well as more idle time than Titian or Velazquez. The problem is that this makes some people think that they are owed a living by the rest of society. And their lack of reading, coupled with TikTok brainrot, reinforces their delusions.

(10-23-2025, 05:06 AM)busker Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 01:59 PM)tun Wrote:  

(10-22-2025, 04:31 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  When i say the world, I dont mean the people, but my own universe that revolves around me.  My world is crushing my soul.  When I spend 20 years working on a craft and I cant get friends or family to see a show, ever.  Or share it at all.  

I groom dogs out of my house, an industry in itself thats difficult hard labor, and my biggest problem is that im booked up a whole month in advance, knowing my bills will barely be paid and ill be too exhausted to work on my art.  My projects.  Which has been the motivational drive of my entire existence. And all people want is their dogs cleaned.  

The people aren't crushing me, theyre doing what they think is best and trying to take care of their pets and their lives, just like me, but the world is still crushing. Im sure this is just the low end of a manic episode that comes with completing a project, before the rush of starting a new one.

Thanks for asking

What are these 'shows' and 'projects'?

Now the thing is, historically, artists and creative people generally come from family money. You know, you can't be an artist really unless you've got family money so that you don't have to work, right? Because nearly everybody you've heard of, whether it's Cezanne, Matisse, Picasso, Manet, anyone you want to mention, right? They come from family money, right? Ordinary people don't have access to the life of an artist, do they?

Writers too, it's the same. Nearly everybody you've ever heard of, they're from the elite families. This is all nepotism on steroids. It's a club, and we're not in it. That's all there is to it. If you haven't got the private income, the independent means, the family money, that's all there is to it. You're nothing. This is a game. It's a party, and we're not invited.

What about, you know, the great American Art, the painting of the 20th century, the Abstract Expressionism? That was a CIA project. All those artists were CIA assets. They were paid. They were given a job. They were working for the man, right? They were doing what they were told, right? Some of them were talented, but there's talent in any cohort, right? But that doesn't change the fact that they didn't just get 'spotted', okay? They weren't just picked up because they were 'talented'. They were lucky enough to get a job doing what the man wanted them to do. That's abstract expressionism - propaganda.

This is what it all is. All of it. Everything we've ever been shown. It's all this. It's a game. It's a party. And we're not invited. It is all propaganda.

The fact that you have access to a phone and the internet tells me that you have “family money”.
Because your bar seems to be “if you’re not a poor peasant’s son dying of the plague you’re privileged”.

Ergo Michelangelo, Cellini, Mozart all had “family money” because their parents didn’t sell time to Moroccan corsairs in exchange for a bag of rice.

If we make the bar slightly more sensible then we see that until modern times, universal education and literacy were not the norm, and so writers were either slaves (ancient times) or the “elite” middle class that didn’t work on farms. Or the priesthood. Even then, Shakespeare earned a living not from royalties but from his share in the acting companies. Keats worked in hospitals. The monks who copied out the New Testament earned nothing.

In modern times, you have no such excuse. Almost every body in the west has a better standard of living and greater access to wealth as well as more idle time than Titian or Velazquez. The problem is that this makes some people think that they are owed a living by the rest of society. And their lack of reading, coupled with TikTok brainrot, reinforces their delusions.

To claim that ownership of a mobile device (or access to one) is evidence of family money, independent private income, or access to systems of power through bloodline or intelligence community connections - this is astonishing to say the least. Apart from that - I can make no reasonable sense of what you have said. It is incoherent.

(10-23-2025, 10:54 PM)tun Wrote:  To claim that ownership of a mobile device (or access to one) is evidence of family money, independent private income, or access to systems of power through bloodline or intelligence community connections - this is astonishing to say the least. Apart from that - I can make no reasonable sense of what you have said. It is incoherent.

Reading comprehension is not for everyone; least of all a pretend penman

(10-24-2025, 12:16 AM)busker Wrote:  

(10-23-2025, 10:54 PM)tun Wrote:  To claim that ownership of a mobile device (or access to one) is evidence of family money, independent private income, or access to systems of power through bloodline or intelligence community connections - this is astonishing to say the least. Apart from that - I can make no reasonable sense of what you have said. It is incoherent.

Reading comprehension is not for everyone; least of all a pretend penman

This is a highly revealing reply. I am sorry that you cannot be coherent or sensible.

I like how the thread is 'play' and everybody here just playin

(10-24-2025, 12:45 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  I like how the thread is 'play' and everybody here just playin

Carthago delendo est, I say.
Tradition be damned. Damnatio memoriae. Every trace 

Play?
Like sex
Just another way to feel a hole
in your soul.

Hey it rhymes.