Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against stone and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
when pummeling these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your righteous roar
the counter rhyme of a retreating
sigh; the curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon's heart
that spurs you on your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

(08-10-2023, 01:09 PM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hand                 hands (?)
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;
the curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

I suspect I have a reputation of being overly congratulatory, but what the heck, I call them as I see them.  This is superb.  A lovely rhythm, not a word out of place or a word too many.  I really enjoy the internal rhymes.  Only the one petty suggestion.

I'm frankly jealous of the clarity with which you write.  This is probably my favorite of what you've posted over time.

You seem uncertain about what to title it?  I think "Sea" is too brief, too vague.  "Ruminations from the shore" is better, except you use the word "shore" too soon.  Afraid I don't have any suggestions.  (Then again, "The Curse of Forever" sounds pretty good, and it doesn't show up until the climax of the poem, but it also gives away one of the best lines up front.  However, the context of where it appears in the poem gives it additional meaning, explains the title and would give the reader an "aha" moment.)

TqB

(08-10-2023, 07:11 PM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  

(08-10-2023, 01:09 PM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hand                 hands (?)
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;
the curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

I suspect I have a reputation of being overly congratulatory, but what the heck, I call them as I see them.  This is superb.  A lovely rhythm, not a word out of place or a word too many.  I really enjoy the internal rhymes.  Only the one petty suggestion.

I'm frankly jealous of the clarity with which you write.  This is probably my favorite of what you've posted over time.

You seem uncertain about what to title it?  I think "Sea" is too brief, too vague.  "Ruminations from the shore" is better, except you use the word "shore" too soon.  Afraid I don't have any suggestions.  (Then again, "The Curse of Forever" sounds pretty good, and it doesn't show up until the climax of the poem, but it also gives away one of the best lines up front.  However, the context of where it appears in the poem gives it additional meaning, explains the title and would give the reader an "aha" moment.)

TqB

Hi TqB,

Thank you for your kind words.  Any success I have at writing is due to everything I have learned from you and the other poets kind enough to give honest feedback.
You are right about my ambivalence regarding the title.  "Sea" was originally the first word of the poem but then I moved it up to title.  I do like your suggestion about using "The Curse of Forever".  Another consideration is "Ruminations on the sea".
Thanks again,
steve

Hi Steve-

I'd go with "Ruminations on the Sea"

This is a brilliant poem. Not to blow smoke, but it is truly fantastic, and worthy of the spotlight.

I will admit that as I read I was nervous that you might blow it, but you brought it ashore wonderfully!

Why you put it in BASIC is beyond me, as this is a superbly polished piece. I'm afraid that any suggestions for changes would only break this one.

Way to go Steve! 
- Mark

This is an original idea -- we always think of the moon and the tides as linked, but putting the tragic love story in there is great. What keeps this one from being epic in my mind is the absence of meter or a basic rhyme scheme (doesn't have to be end rhyme). Even more assonance would help. Content here is great, but meter would put it over the top. Probably iambs because that one is gentle and unobtrusive. 

One trick that free-versers will frequently do is to put a rhyme 3 or 4 lines back from the final line. Helps give a sense of closure at the end. Slant/partial rhyme works well so it doesn't draw too much attention to itself. 

Hope this helps,

Lizzie

(08-11-2023, 05:43 AM)Mark A Becker Wrote:  Hi Steve-

I'd go with "Ruminations on the Sea"

This is a brilliant poem. Not to blow smoke, but it is truly fantastic, and worthy of the spotlight.

I will admit that as I read I was nervous that you might blow it, but you brought it ashore wonderfully!

Why you put it in BASIC is beyond me, as this is a superbly polished piece. I'm afraid that any suggestions for changes would only break this one.

Way to go Steve! 
- Mark

Thanks Mark.  I guess I was feeling nervous about it so hid it in BASIC.  I often feel that it is somewhat accidental which poems work out and which don't.
As I told Tim, any success I have is only possible because of your and all the other's generosity of time reading and commenting.
Thanks again,
steve

(08-10-2023, 01:09 PM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;
the curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

Very clever
The tides.
At first, I was bothered by all the anthropomorphising that made it sound archaic, but I think it fits the poem

(08-11-2023, 06:24 AM)Lizzie Wrote:  This is an original idea -- we always think of the moon and the tides as linked, but putting the tragic love story in there is great. What keeps this one from being epic in my mind is the absence of meter or a basic rhyme scheme (doesn't have to be end rhyme). Even more assonance would help. Content here is great, but meter would put it over the top. Probably iambs because that one is gentle and unobtrusive. 

One trick that free-versers will frequently do is to put a rhyme 3 or 4 lines back from the final line. Helps give a sense of closure at the end. Slant/partial rhyme works well so it doesn't draw too much attention to itself. 

Hope this helps,

Lizzie

Thanks Lizzie.  I am not very experienced in working in strict meter and have trouble following which syllable is stressed as I am writing.  I might have better luck going for more sonic rhythm.  Always more to learn!
Thanks,
Steve

---

(08-11-2023, 09:46 AM)busker Wrote:  

(08-10-2023, 01:09 PM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;
the curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

Very clever
The tides.
At first, I was bothered by all the anthropomorphising that made it sound archaic, but I think it fits the poem

Hi Busker,
Thanks for reading and commenting.  I am a couple decades behind in my reading so don't really know the styles of different eras.  For better or worse, this seems to be the tone that comes out most often for me.  Besides, I thought personification was on of the devices in our toolbox.
Anyway, glad you liked it.
steve

Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;

The sonics are working well. But a break and a change would make an interest at this point, still carrying the rhythm with the meaning.


For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating
sigh, curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

(08-12-2023, 06:16 AM)rowens Wrote:  Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent shores?
 
For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating sigh;

The sonics are working well. But a break and a change would make an interest at this point, still carrying the rhythm with the meaning.


For I hear within your malevolent roar
the counter rhyme of your retreating
sigh, curse of forever
 
chasing the Moon’s cold heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

Hi Rowens

Thanks for your comments.  I like the line break change.  Curious about why cut 'cold'.  It's not very original, granted, but I felt it lended a necessary emotional element.
thanks,
steve

The Moon feels more distant without the cold. The lines more solemn.
Really, you don't need Moon. You could say

chasing a heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

---

I kept seeing with my "inner eye": these innocent stones.
Even: marvelous roar. I know the meaning of your counter rhyme, but still.
As for the lack of comma after surge, you can get away with things like that with line breaks in poems. And it links the surging with the coming and going. So near, so far.

(08-13-2023, 12:27 PM)rowens Wrote:  The Moon feels more distant without the cold. The lines more solemn.
Really, you don't need Moon. You could say

chasing a heart
that spurs you in your surge
first in her coming, again as she goes.

---

I kept seeing with my "inner eye": these innocent stones.
Even: marvelous roar. I know the meaning of your counter rhyme, but still.
As for the lack of comma after surge, you can get away with things like that with line breaks in poems. And it links the surging with the coming and going. So near, so far.

Hi Rowens

Thanks again for your helpful comments.  I see what you mean about cold and moon.  I've also never really liked malevolent either as it doesn't fit the mood well.  Made some of the changes you suggested and some others of my own.

Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent stones? 'shores' I think was the better word choice
 
For I hear within your righteous roar
the counter rhyme of a retreating
sigh; the curse of forever 
 
chasing a silver heart  I really believe that the Moon was a very important element, as it controls the tides
that spurs your surge in her coming, accents fall harder to imply surging if you leave out "you in"
your ebbing again as she goes. accents trailing off to imply ebbing, which I added

some word suggestions after 'forever':

at the mercy of
in thrall to

a demanding Moon
a ruthless Moon
an aloof Moon
a steely Moon

(08-21-2023, 04:41 AM)Mark A Becker Wrote:  Ruminations on the Sea
 
How I admire your singularity
of purpose; your timeless hurling
against rock and sand and I wonder
 
is it only the whip of a goading wind
that quickens your curling hands
to pummel these innocent stones? 'shores' I think was the better word choice
 
For I hear within your righteous roar
the counter rhyme of a retreating
sigh; the curse of forever 
 
chasing a silver heart  I really believe that the Moon was a very important element, as it controls the tides
that spurs your surge in her coming, accents fall harder to imply surging if you leave out "you in"
your ebbing again as she goes. accents trailing off to imply ebbing, which I added

some word suggestions after 'forever':

at the mercy of
in thrall to

a demanding Moon
a ruthless Moon
an aloof Moon
a steely Moon

Hi Mark,

Thanks for coming back to comment again. I have ignored your suggestion to leave it alone, maybe at my peril.  This is the dangerous time when I start to over think the poem.  The saving grace is that the original will always survive somewhere!
 I think I agree about shores.  I was also thinking about 'hungry' to replace 'chasing'.  My only issue with 'ebbing' is that I am referring to the fact that there are two high tides per day, one when the moon is overhead and again when it's on the other side of the earth.  We'll see what other suggestions might pop up.
Thanks again,
steve

(08-21-2023, 05:09 AM)brynmawr1 Wrote:  Thanks for coming back to comment again. I have ignored your suggestion to leave it alone, maybe at my peril.  This is the dangerous time when I start to over think the poem.  The saving grace is that the original will always survive somewhere!
 I think I agree about shores.  I was also thinking about 'hungry' to replace 'chasing'.  My only issue with 'ebbing' is that I am referring to the fact that there are two high tides per day, one when the moon is overhead and again when it's on the other side of the earth.  We'll see what other suggestions might pop up.
Thanks again,
steve

Hi Steve,
I think the changes you've made are fine (except for 'stones').

I also think that if you can work out the last stanza you'll get there.  In this poem I see the sea as a masculine element, and the moon as a feminine element. That is why I suggested 'ebbing', to describe the ebb and flow of relationships, which is what I think you're going for here, with the strong metaphors you present. 

That said, it is your poem, and I think you are close to working it out.

-Mark

Bring back "moon", somehow, some way.

TqB

Without mentioning the moon, you could easily reclaim cold, as in cold heart. The moon a name not spoken. The innocent stones a pale enraging substitute for the great untouchable above.

These added textures are what I mean, things to consider. There and unstated.

I also am missing the moon 
It was such a clever element, so sad to see it go. 

P.S. I understand that you're hinting at the moon, but it's not clear enough IMO. You're gaining multiplicity of possible meaning, but....at a cost.
P.P.S. I see both sides. At the very least, you can take comfort that it's a good poem either way.

(08-24-2023, 02:37 PM)Lizzie Wrote:  I also am missing the moon 
It was such a clever element, so sad to see it go. 

P.S. I understand that you're hinting at the moon, but it's not clear enough IMO. You're gaining multiplicity of possible meaning, but....at a cost.
P.P.S. I see both sides. At the very least, you can take comfort that it's a good poem either way.

Hi Lizzie,
Thanks for commenting again.  Yes, there are pros and cons but I have decided to put Moon back in as I think the reader will like the payout better.   Made some other minor word changes but ended up leaving the last stanza pretty much intact.  Maybe I'll come back to later, maybe not.
steve