you're making this about a drug problem when it's about more people wanting them down because of what they stand for. than leaving as is. you're comparing apples and oranges. it will help communities knit better together, it will give neo's and kkk's less public places to congregate in order to spout hate speech whilst carrying long guns. you honestly believe if the statues were left where they are anyone on welfare would get better welfare may i suggest you contact those in power and demand more help with the dug epidemic, a few billion more dollars perhaps because 12 mill just won't cut the mustard. you're arguemts are flawed as is your logic.

(09-21-2017, 10:50 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  It is an opportunity cost for the people protesting for removal or against the removal. It's not difficult. And, incidentally removing the statues will not help the drug epedimic or the number of single mothers on welfare.

out of all those who posted in this thread, you're the only person who states you're not any more of a racist.
do you think people here see you as a racist? if so why do you think that is, if not why bring it up.

(09-21-2017, 11:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  Just to point out i'm not any more of a racist than anyone else.

Ah, i see. Removing statues is the end of racism. Well then, tear 'em down!

I think your assumption is false.

I am not making it a about a drug problem. Im pointing out there are bigger issues than some statues. If you disagree then OK... but if you spend money and time on one thing, then by simple arithmetic you have less time and money for more important things. 12 million would do a fair bit for a single city.

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(09-21-2017, 11:17 AM)billy Wrote:  out of all those who posted in this thread, you're the only person who states you're not any more of a racist.
do you think people here see you as a racist? if so why do you think that is, if not why bring it up.

(09-21-2017, 11:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  Just to point out i'm not any more of a racist than anyone else.

It's easy to get it twisted.

(09-21-2017, 10:50 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  It is an opportunity cost for the people protesting for removal or against the removal. It's not difficult. And, incidentally removing the statues will not help the drug epedimic or the number of single mothers on welfare.

SO, If the state is going to spend 12million on something (opportunity cost here as well), i would rather them spend that money on those issues instead of some old hunks of rock. What is so difficult for you to understand about that?

You are trying to create logical fallacy where it doesn't exist because you want to win the argument without having to discuss the issues.


If we were tearing down statues to build affordable housing or a homeless shelter in its place, i would be fine with that. You are getting something in return. With this you get nothing but a bunch of angry people. On both sides of the argument. Which results in violence.

Your argument makes no sense. You are saying that respect for other peoples feelings should be enough to justify spending limited resources on removing statues. With the same breath, you are saying other people's feelings are invalid because of how you perceive their motivation for wanting to keep the statues.

"Why does it matter whether you judge those feelings /valid/ or not"

It isn't an either or.

If people have drug problems and you wish to help, why not help that?

Tearing statues down comes from the coffers of the parks dept. Not tearing them down doesn't in any way make that money go toward public welfare.

As far as feelings = if people could give a valid reason why leaving the statues would make them feel better, i would support it.  Valid reasons don't include:

Asian minorities
Single  mothers on welfare (WTF???!!!)
Drug epidemincs
Bastard childre

The reason is because none of these is in any way related to tearing statues down.

Please - please present a valid reason why people would feel better leaving them up.

I would love to hear that.

I do not know, you would have to ask them. I doubt there is a valid feeling about keeping them up or tearing them down. Feeling good is not a valid reason because if it is its equally as valid for both sides. That is my point. I don't think decisions should be made based on feelings. But, who decides whose reasons are valid? You? Shaky ground.

It is an either or. It always is. There is only so much time, only so much money, only so much energy.

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12 million is only a drop in the bucket, but there are a lot of drops and only one bucket...

(09-21-2017, 11:28 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  I do not know, you would have to ask them. I doubt there is a valid feeling about keeping them up or tearing them down. Feeling good is not a valid reason because if it is its equally as valid for both sides. That is my point. I don't think decisions should be made based on feelings. But, who decides whose reasons are valid? You? Shaky ground.

It is an either or. It always is. There is only so much time, only so much money, only so much energy.

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12 million is only a drop in the bucket, but there are a lot of drops and only one bucket...

Since you are here now and arguing against it, you should provide those reasons.

It is not an either or because it comes from different departments.

All of the time/energy/money is not currently being used so there is plenty more to tear down a couple statues.

BTW - over 1,000 statues get torn down a year in the USA that are not racists and no one objects even though the time/energy/money is the same.

Seriously

WTF is wrong with you?

(09-21-2017, 11:19 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  Ah, i see. Removing statues is the end of racism. Well then, tear 'em down!

I think your assumption is false.

Knitting communities together which is what i said isn't the end of racism, if you quote me, quote

I am not making it a about a drug problem. yes you did Im pointing out there are bigger issues than some statues. so we can't argue or talk about lesser issues, if we're only allowed to discuss one problem what should it be?If you disagree then OK... but if you spend money and time on one thing, then by simple arithmetic you have less time and money for more important things. 12 million would do a fair bit for a single city. if spent it would come out of a specific budget, if not spent no one would get more help or a share of the 12mill

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(09-21-2017, 11:17 AM)billy Wrote:  out of all those who posted in this thread, you're the only person who states you're not any more of a racist.
do you think people here see you as a racist? if so why do you think that is, if not why bring it up.

(09-21-2017, 11:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote:  Just to point out i'm not any more of a racist than anyone else. yes but why, you don't tell us your not catholic or not jew, why tell us you're not racist?

It's easy to get it twisted. what does, saying you're not a racist?

Yeah, you guy are insane. Money spent does not count because it comes out of a special department which hoards money that comes from imaginary fairies and if we didn't spend it tearing down statues it would just wisp a way into nothing.

The money comes from the city coffers period. If you want to argue that you are insane.

There is only one budget. The city divides its money amount its departments based on need. Any argument to the contrary is insane.

Billy, i also didn't tell you i like cheese. It's not relevant to the discussion. I'm not sure if you think you are being clever, but your line of questioning makes no sense.

(09-21-2017, 12:12 PM)milo Wrote:  Since you are here now and arguing against it, you should provide those reasons.

Why? I do not think arguments based on "feelings" are persuasive at all. That is my whole point. You seem to think feelings are a good justification, but only on one side of the argument.

Quote:It is not an either or because it comes from different departments.

All of the time/energy/money is not currently being used so there is plenty more to tear down a couple statues.

Ah. That's why the government is running a deficit. Because it has extra money it's not using. Neat. How many confederate statues do you reckon there are? Eh, more than a couple.

Quote:BTW - over 1,000 statues get torn down a year in the USA that are not racists and no one objects even though the time/energy/money is the same.

Source? I smell false equivalenancy.

i don't think you're racist, i just wondered why you put a denial of being one up.

let,s say you're correct about the money. if the stats are taken down neo nazis and kkk can't march to adore them and your antfa can't march to abolish them think of all the money spent on policing, that alone would save more than 12 mill.

the money comes from a specific dept. if it isn't spent no one else benefits no welfare check gets bigger no addict gets better treatment, sorry but your arguments hold no water.

(09-21-2017, 08:57 PM)billy Wrote:  i don't think you're racist, i just wondered why you put a denial of being one up.

let,s say you're correct about the money. if the stats are taken down neo nazis and kkk can't march to adore them and your antfa can't march to abolish them think of all the money spent on policing, that alone would save more than 12 mill.

the money comes from a specific dept. if it isn't spent no one else benefits no welfare check gets bigger no addict gets better treatment, sorry but your arguments hold no water.

What specific department? Who decides how much money that department gets? Why would someone give a department more money than it needs?

To your first argument, the easier and more effective thing to do is tell them no, your not marching here. Charlottesville did that for the violent march but courts over ruled them, courts have too much power, but that's another story.