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There'are too many beauty. Like my joke-thing with the 18 year old virgins. Of course only one is going to be fool enough to take me up on my offer, and be the dame I'm going to be with the rest of my life. But that beauty is not tied to any building. I could be tied to a scene in Eugene O'Neill's Long Day's Journey into Night, and she could be tied to a scene from Alice's Diner. Or I could have an ALF lunchbox, and she could be gibly over-buying a Bill Goldberg sweatshirt/hoody from the Goodwill, but if we get along . . .
And I'm basing this on real life, so I hope she never finds out about this site. Because I've already worked hard enough getting her; I don't need to spend the next six years explaining things.
When she showed up in her Bill Goldberg sweatshirt from the Goodwill, I came this close to mentioning Flyin' Brian Pillman, and Stunnin' Steve Austin. Then I was going to bend into Rabelais and Cervantes, and then ask her out to Pizza Hut and say about Beatrice and Dante, and push Shelley and Mallarme into the getting laid conversation. Then I woke up.
And we were still talking fake stuff. And then I mentioned how my granddad, and how he was born on a native american reservation. And how he met the guy who played Billy Jack. And he's dead now. And wasn't native american, and how that's so ratched.
I admit, I said there were several 18 year old girls I was squeevy over. But there is only one. And she used the word clutch to describe me. And I thought that was really super lame, but if she means that as a compliment, who am I to say I wouldn't be good for her?
Glibly-overbuying is what I meant to write. So I fucked this relationship-understanding over already. But hopefully she neer see this site ever, and least before I figure out how to explain things.
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I think there is staggering beauty everywhere, at every moment. Every poet knows that, right? I once told Leanne she could write a poem about a sock and it would move me. She did, and it did. But it didn't make me love socks any more than before. Love is more elusive. Beauty can live without it.
just mercedes
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Other days, other deeds. Truth / beauty is not a dichotomy.'Other' in this case seems to mean 'everything that's not truth and beauty, or beauty, or truth.' Speaking of abstractions as though they had physical properties that can be weighed against each other.
Keat's ' ... that is all / Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.' has always struck me as self-consciously solemn, portentous. 
But Rilke - “For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror
which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so,
because it serenely disdains to destroy us.
Every angel is terrible.”
― Rainer Maria Rilke, Duino Elegies
although it loses a bit in translation, and other versions exist that may better carry the message.
I'm usually allergic to angels in poetry, but Rilke makes them work, for me.
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(09-15-2017, 02:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote: @Lizzie there are other forms of beauty as you mention. None of them require love.
Hmmmm......seems correct. I'm still right though, and Achebe is still wrong. 
Everybody's talking about beauty and there you go talking about porn and loose women....
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Another Bible quote - "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end" (Eccl. 3:11)
just mercedes
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(09-15-2017, 05:54 PM)Wastrel Wrote: Another Bible quote - "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end" (Eccl. 3:11)
Ecclesiastes 3:11
We should tie this directly to the truth of verse 1: “There is a time for every purpose.” The key word, of course, is “time.”
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Things happen on time and begin and end, but timelessness is always there (or something?)
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OMG & here I am with my basic approach believing simply that beauty needs love more than love needs beauty 
If we are perusing this as an adult, my partner would argue against that, but here goes, generally people want to be loved & believe, somewhat incorrectly, that to find love they need to be beautiful. Love, however, knows that beauty will fade, & to remain it needs so much more, heart, hope, security, support etc.
Personally I feel that the majority of us are average of looks, but there will always be someone out there that finds us beautiful of heart & loves us for this more than all the brief encounters that came before with those that thought that what was outside mattered more.
You may be initially attracted to someone that you see to be beautiful but if that's all they have, then all they are is a photograph in an album that once was.
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(09-15-2017, 03:28 PM)Lizzie Wrote: (09-15-2017, 02:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote: @Lizzie there are other forms of beauty as you mention. None of them require love.
Hmmmm......seems correct. I'm still right though, and Achebe is still wrong.
Everybody's talking about beauty and there you go talking about porn and loose women....
base examples are typically the best.
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(09-15-2017, 02:11 AM)QDeathstar Wrote: @Lizzie there are other forms of beauty as you mention. None of them require love. Those forms of beauty don't require love to exist, but they do require love to be created.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
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yep.. love needs beauty so much it creates it.
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You can always create beauty. Ugly beauty. You ever did that? Because beauty isn't profound. If anything it's merely pre-found. If you have to think about why something is beautiful or what it means to be beautiful, that's an advanced level of beauty going on. It's going on, it's not purely simple beauty. Beauty needs no explanation, and no motive, and nothing outside of its beautiful beauty self. Until intellectual complexity becomes part of the mix. And you have to question, and questions become the makeup of beauty. And you are beautiful, no matter what they say, like the song says. The uglier the better. The more forceful, the more complexingly beautiful. The pure heart of decadence. Decadence needs sophistication, some decimal fullness. True beauty is shallow. It can drown you in the kiddie pool. Is the joy of infants and alz[old timers]heimers. Leon in the trailer park and Ray-Ray in the ghetto can recognize it. It's some peaceful feeling that makes you want to run out and make a muck of things. It's a compelling, a true compelling. It makes centers. It makes you find a center in things, and violently defend it. It compels you to. You want to reach out and smack it to see if you can make it more beautiful. And if it doesn't, you can be heart-broken, which is beautiful in itself, and reach out for more beauty, to match your own.
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I loved her because she was beautiful. Then I woke up, and realized I had nothing but her beauty. At first I languished -- I suffered, having my love be so distant from me. But such suffering builds virtue, and I learned to love without relying on her beauty. Now I love her absolutely, unconditionally, even when all I have to know her by is her red hair, her green eyes, her special way with words -- her beauty.
Dante's poetry was rooted in Beatrice, but ultimately strove for God. He and his ilk believed, as Plato did, that beauty was a guide to love, and love a keeper of beauty. Forget definition: as love grows to reach its ideal state, so beauty becomes undefined, subsuming all good things in its wake. And what is love's ideal state, if not God?
Of course, I still suffer now, just as I still pray to God that she become real, or that I become ideal. Living in this world of forms, I cannot divorce my virtue from my desire, not completely. But if virtue is gained through prayer, and desire is made holy through prayer, then what have I through my suffering gained, but more love, more beauty, more virtue, more holiness? To answer the question, love in its imperfect state needs beauty, just as beauty in its dynamic state needs love -- but in their ideal states, Love needs not anything at all, while beauty, remaining a concept fundamentally tied to the created world, begins to need Love, albeit in a manner that surpasses the question. A manner, perhaps, that could only be expressed through another term: grace.
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(09-18-2017, 10:57 AM)RiverNotch Wrote: I loved her because she was beautiful. Then I woke up, and realized I had nothing but her beauty. At first I languished -- I suffered, having my love be so distant from me. But such suffering builds virtue, and I learned to love without relying on her beauty. Now I love her absolutely, unconditionally, even when all I have to know her by is her red hair, her green eyes, her special way with words -- her beauty.
Dante's poetry was rooted in Beatrice, but ultimately strove for God. He and his ilk believed, as Plato did, that beauty was a guide to love, and love a keeper of beauty. Forget definition: as love grows to reach its ideal state, so beauty becomes undefined, subsuming all good things in its wake. And what is love's ideal state, if not God?
Of course, I still suffer now, just as I still pray to God that she become real, or that I become ideal. Living in this world of forms, I cannot divorce my virtue from my desire, not completely. But if virtue is gained through prayer, and desire is made holy through prayer, then what have I through my suffering gained, but more love, more beauty, more virtue, more holiness? To answer the question, love in its imperfect state needs beauty, just as beauty in its dynamic state needs love -- but in their ideal states, Love needs not anything at all, while beauty, remaining a concept fundamentally tied to the created world, begins to need Love, albeit in a manner that surpasses the question. A manner, perhaps, that could only be expressed through another term: grace.
Amen.
 Non-practicing atheist
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(09-18-2017, 10:57 AM)RiverNotch Wrote: Forget definition: as love grows to reach its ideal state, so beauty becomes undefined, subsuming all good things in its wake. And what is love's ideal state, if not God?
...love in its imperfect state needs beauty, just as beauty in its dynamic state needs love -- but in their ideal states, Love needs not anything at all, while beauty, remaining a concept fundamentally tied to the created world, begins to need Love, albeit in a manner that surpasses the question. A manner, perhaps, that could only be expressed through another term: grace.
yes, amen to that.
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