(05-24-2017, 05:29 AM)rayheinrich Wrote: Earthworms don't really want to leave the earth, as that's how they remain safe from birds etc.
But they drown in water, so they must. It's more like the shower 'forces' or 'drives' or even 'floods' them.
(Though 'lure' does imply a destination better than the others.)
"Oblige"/"obligate", while not working, would be SO Japanese.
"Early showers lure earthworms" and "early shower lures earthworms"...
It's the latter, hands down, because haiku is about specificity, immediacy, capturing a moment,
the zen aspect of living/being/existing in the present, as the past and future are illusion.
Also, in that vein, addressing a single earthworm would come closer to invoking that ideal.
Inferred remembrance:
Thinking of earthworm singular/zen, reminds me of the old TV series "Kung Fu"
(a Western ) with David Carradine as "Kwai Chang Caine". (Yes, I looked it up.)
In flashbacks to the monastery, Master Po, his spiritual teacher, addresses Caine as "grasshopper".
The setup event for his spiritual nickname:
Master Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Young Caine: I hear the water, I hear the birds.
Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Caine: No.
Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?
Caine: Old man, how is it that you hear these things?
Po: Young man, how is it that you do not?
I thought of pointing that out too....but it sounded wankerish in my head...ha!
Ok, how about
Early showers
prise earthworms
lilacs burst
Never worry about sounding wankerish on one of my threads, makes me feel at home. ><
Prise is a word I never use, I'm having trouble with it.
(05-24-2017, 10:50 AM)Lizzie Wrote:
(05-24-2017, 06:42 AM)ellajam Wrote: Thanks ray, I originally thought of earthworms rising but couldn't tie it together.
an early shower
obliges the earthworm to rise
the lilac to burst.
maybe
I thought you'd like the action. Any opinion on the earthworm/lilac or an/a?
I'd do:
an early shower
obliges earthworms to rise
lilacs to burst
I don't think you need any verb there and it sounds clumsy. I you start with "early shower" causality is assumed.
An early shower
Earthworms emerge
Lilacs burst
But I think we need more of a connection between the earthworms and the lilacs, if there is one I am not getting it. A common technique is to use a visual connection
(05-24-2017, 07:37 AM)Achebe Wrote: I thought of pointing that out too....but it sounded wankerish in my head...ha!
Ok, how about
Early showers
prise earthworms
lilacs burst
Never worry about sounding wankerish on one of my threads, makes me feel at home. ><
Prise is a word I never use, I'm having trouble with it.
(05-24-2017, 10:50 AM)Lizzie Wrote:
I thought you'd like the action. Any opinion on the earthworm/lilac or an/a?
I'd do:
an early shower
obliges earthworms to rise
lilacs to burst
hmmm, that works but abandons ray's idea of specificity, which may not be a bad thing. Thanks, liz.
(05-25-2017, 12:46 AM)milo Wrote: I don't think you need any verb there and it sounds clumsy. I you start with "early shower" causality is assumed.
An early shower
Earthworms emerge
Lilacs burst
But I think we need more of a connection between the earthworms and the lilacs, if there is one I am not getting it. A common technique is to use a visual connection
earthworms emerge is lovely. I was hoping showers was the connector but can see that it's not working that well. When I shuffle the lines to put shower in the middle
lilacs burst
in early showers
earthworms emerge
I realize I don't really care enough about the earthworms to have them open or close.
early showers
burst lilacs
earthworms at their feet
It's really about the scent of lilacs, and maybe the damp. If we had smellovision I could just chuck the whole thing.
Thinking. hi, milo
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-24-2017, 09:57 PM)ellajam Wrote: Never worry about sounding wankerish on one of my threads, makes me feel at home. ><
Prise is a word I never use, I'm having trouble with it.
I thought you'd like the action. Any opinion on the earthworm/lilac or an/a?
I'd do:
an early shower
obliges earthworms to rise
lilacs to burst
hmmm, that works but abandons ray's idea of specificity, which may not be a bad thing. Thanks, liz.
(05-25-2017, 12:46 AM)milo Wrote: I don't think you need any verb there and it sounds clumsy. I you start with "early shower" causality is assumed.
An early shower
Earthworms emerge
Lilacs burst
But I think we need more of a connection between the earthworms and the lilacs, if there is one I am not getting it. A common technique is to use a visual connection
earthworms emerge is lovely. I was hoping showers was the connector but can see that it's not working that well. When I shuffle the lines to put shower in the middle
lilacs burst
in early showers
earthworms emerge
I realize I don't really care enough about the earthworms to have them open or close.
early showers
burst lilacs
earthworms at their feet
It's really about the scent of lilacs, and maybe the damp. If we had smellovision I could just chuck the whole thing.
Thinking. hi, milo
So, I realized I wasn't clear enough just after I posted this. Showers does connect the 2 but not in any unique way. Showers cause both lilacs and earthworms to emerge but they also cause thousands of other things to happen, we need to know why the poet chose earthworms and lilacs. Is it the unintentional emergence of both (showers force earthworm to emerge, lilacs to bloom)?
More common in haiku would be a visual connection (showers cause earthworms to droop like lilacs)
Anyway, we need to know how these 2 things are connected.
an early shower
obliges earthworms to rise
lilacs to burst
hmmm, that works but abandons ray's idea of specificity, which may not be a bad thing. Thanks, liz.
(05-25-2017, 12:46 AM)milo Wrote: I don't think you need any verb there and it sounds clumsy. I you start with "early shower" causality is assumed.
An early shower
Earthworms emerge
Lilacs burst
But I think we need more of a connection between the earthworms and the lilacs, if there is one I am not getting it. A common technique is to use a visual connection
earthworms emerge is lovely. I was hoping showers was the connector but can see that it's not working that well. When I shuffle the lines to put shower in the middle
lilacs burst
in early showers
earthworms emerge
I realize I don't really care enough about the earthworms to have them open or close.
early showers
burst lilacs
earthworms at their feet
It's really about the scent of lilacs, and maybe the damp. If we had smellovision I could just chuck the whole thing.
Thinking. hi, milo
So, I realized I wasn't clear enough just after I posted this. Showers does connect the 2 but not in any unique way. Showers cause both lilacs and earthworms to emerge but they also cause thousands of other things to happen, we need to know why the poet chose earthworms and lilacs. Is it the unintentional emergence of both (showers force earthworm to emerge, lilacs to bloom)?
More common in haiku would be a visual connection (showers cause earthworms to droop like lilacs)
Anyway, we need to know how these 2 things are connected.
Thanks, milo, all they really have in common is being amplified by the rain and the richness of the earth they live in, and maybe the lilacs smell so good because they're born of worm poop. The only visual I can think of is the lilac twigs. I'm gonna let it turn in my head a while and see if anything that gets you to smell the lilacs pops up, earthworms or not.
early showers
turn worm poop
to lilacs
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
I think there's enough connection through the shower to more than qualify.
But there's always a connection in haiku even if two, or even three, objects are described:
1. They are being observed at the same time by the writer.
2. They are being read/observed at the same time by the reader.
-----
Two examples of two things connected by a third,
just like the shower connects the worm and the lilac:
(Analysis stolen from various sources including myself)
This one connects through "quiet".
The chrysanthemum is a metaphor for order hence peace (the Japanese Emperor
sits on the Chrysanthemum Throne" probably named for this reason;
the tea, as it's a metaphor for ceremony hence order;
and the monk as he/she is a symbol for meditative practice hence the peace/quiet
brought about through meditation:
Basho:
A monk sips morning tea
it's quiet
the chrysanthemum's flowering
This one connects through the dress, as it's draped over the gold screen and
blown by the wind:
Buson:
Over the gold screen
Whose silk gauze dress?
The autumn wind.
-----
And one where the two images are connected only by the writer's (and reader's) observation:
Basho:
A cuckoo cries
and through a thicket
bamboo
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
(05-25-2017, 07:02 AM)rayheinrich Wrote: I think there's enough connection through the shower to more than qualify.
But there's always a connection in haiku even if two, or even three, objects are described:
1. They are being observed at the same time by the writer.
2. They are being read/observed at the same time by the reader.
-----
Two examples of two things connected by a third,
just like the shower connects the worm and the lilac:
(Analysis stolen from various sources including myself)
This one connects through "quiet".
The chrysanthemum is a metaphor for order hence peace (the Japanese Emperor
sits on the Chrysanthemum Throne" probably named for this reason;
the tea, as it's a metaphor for ceremony hence order;
and the monk as he/she is a symbol for meditative practice hence the peace/quiet
brought about through meditation:
Basho:
A monk sips morning tea
it's quiet
the chrysanthemum's flowering
This one connects through the dress, as it's draped over the gold screen and
blown by the wind:
Buson:
Over the gold screen
Whose silk gauze dress?
The autumn wind.
-----
And one where the two images are connected only by the writer's (and reader's) observation:
Basho:
A cuckoo cries
and through a thicket
bamboo
This seems like it is directed at me. If that is the case, I can only speak to my opinion and that is that, in its current form, I would like to see a better connection.
(05-25-2017, 07:18 AM)milo Wrote: This seems like it is directed at me. If that is the case, I can only speak to my opinion and that is that, in its current form, I would like to see a better connection.
Not you personally, I'm just expounding on the subject of connectivity in haiku that you reminded me of.
Lord knows varying opinions abound (even about gods).
And while the subject of connectivity is running around lose, here's one connected only by something
as insubstantial as mist. (The pivot line "mist" connects the heron and the moon -- "pivot line" because
it's part of both the first part of the haiku and the second part of the haiku.
Night heron flying
through the mist
a summer moon
P.S. Just couldn't resist using a poem of mine as an example.
P.P.S. And yes, "summer moon" and "heron" are both summer kigo and a good haiku should contain only one. But!
Take a look at the Yuki Teikei Haiku Society's Season Word List (one of the better ones) which you can find here.
You're supposed to never write a haiku that contains any two of those? To much damn work looking them all up!
(Also very limiting to subject matter.)
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
(05-25-2017, 07:02 AM)rayheinrich Wrote: I think there's enough connection through the shower to more than qualify.
But there's always a connection in haiku even if two, or even three, objects are described:
1. They are being observed at the same time by the writer.
2. They are being read/observed at the same time by the reader.
-----
Two examples of two things connected by a third,
just like the shower connects the worm and the lilac:
(Analysis stolen from various sources including myself)
This one connects through "quiet".
The chrysanthemum is a metaphor for order hence peace (the Japanese Emperor
sits on the Chrysanthemum Throne" probably named for this reason;
the tea, as it's a metaphor for ceremony hence order;
and the monk as he/she is a symbol for meditative practice hence the peace/quiet
brought about through meditation:
Basho:
A monk sips morning tea
it's quiet
the chrysanthemum's flowering
This one connects through the dress, as it's draped over the gold screen and
blown by the wind:
Buson:
Over the gold screen
Whose silk gauze dress?
The autumn wind.
-----
And one where the two images are connected only by the writer's (and reader's) observation:
Basho:
A cuckoo cries
and through a thicket
bamboo
This seems like it is directed at me. If that is the case, I can only speak to my opinion and that is that, in its current form, I would like to see a better connection.
Ha, my thread, I'll take it as directed at me. Regardless of what sparked it, thanks for the post, ray, I'll think about how I can use it help this one along.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-25-2017, 07:18 AM)milo Wrote: This seems like it is directed at me. If that is the case, I can only speak to my opinion and that is that, in its current form, I would like to see a better connection.
Not you personally, I'm just expounding on the subject of connectivity in haiku that you reminded me of.
Lord knows varying opinions abound (even about gods).
And while the subject of connectivity is running around lose, here's one connected only by something
as insubstantial as mist. (The pivot line "mist" connects the heron and the moon -- "pivot line" because
it's part of both the first part of the haiku and the second part of the haiku.
Night heron flying
through the mist
a summer moon
P.S. Just couldn't resist using a poem of mine as an example.
P.P.S. And yes, "summer moon" and "heron" are both summer kigo and a good haiku should contain only one. But!
Take a look at the Yuki Teikei Haiku Society's Season Word List (one of the better ones) which you can find here.
You're supposed to never write a haiku that contains any two of those? To much damn work looking them all up!
(Also very limiting to subject matter.)
Yes, love this one, congrats on it being yours. It nicely illustrates milo's point. Its images are strong and circular, many connections, the words placed just right to allow maximum pleasure. Something to strive for.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-25-2017, 07:18 AM)milo Wrote: This seems like it is directed at me. If that is the case, I can only speak to my opinion and that is that, in its current form, I would like to see a better connection.
Not you personally, I'm just expounding on the subject of connectivity in haiku that you reminded me of.
Lord knows varying opinions abound (even about gods).
And while the subject of connectivity is running around lose, here's one connected only by something
as insubstantial as mist. (The pivot line "mist" connects the heron and the moon -- "pivot line" because
it's part of both the first part of the haiku and the second part of the haiku.
Night heron flying
through the mist
a summer moon
P.S. Just couldn't resist using a poem of mine as an example.
P.P.S. And yes, "summer moon" and "heron" are both summer kigo and a good haiku should contain only one. But!
Take a look at the Yuki Teikei Haiku Society's Season Word List (one of the better ones) which you can find here.
You're supposed to never write a haiku that contains any two of those? To much damn work looking them all up!
(Also very limiting to subject matter.)
Ha, I went to sleep and woke up with my poem done. Let go and let god, or mercedes. Thanks, I'll take it and run.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-25-2017, 06:50 PM)rayheinrich Wrote: lilacs burst
earthworms rise ~
an early shower
yep, pretty close to perfect
I agree. The rearrangement allows us to experience 2 events and then a cut to the connection. Subtle change but completely different.
Yep, I had moved shower down one slot, hadn't shuffled it down there. I love this site, the swoop and kill.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-25-2017, 06:50 PM)rayheinrich Wrote: lilacs burst
earthworms rise ~
an early shower
yep, pretty close to perfect
I agree. The rearrangement allows us to experience 2 events and then a cut to the connection. Subtle change but completely different.
Yep, I had moved shower down one slot, hadn't shuffled it down there. I love this site, the swoop and kill.
Though I think it only fair that we tie both of mercedes hands behind her back and blindfold her;
give the rest of us a chance... oh, she'd probably just get better, creative constraint and all.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
(05-25-2017, 08:17 PM)milo Wrote: I agree. The rearrangement allows us to experience 2 events and then a cut to the connection. Subtle change but completely different.
Yep, I had moved shower down one slot, hadn't shuffled it down there. I love this site, the swoop and kill.
Though I think it only fair that we tie both of mercedes hands behind her back and blindfold her;
give the rest of us a chance... oh, she'd probably just get better, creative constraint and all.
The poem's been up for 5 days, she did give me a chance, in fact, multiple chances. I might have gotten there..someday...maybe...
It's like the shoemaker's elves, I'm not complaining.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
(05-25-2017, 08:22 PM)ellajam Wrote: Yep, I had moved shower down one slot, hadn't shuffled it down there. I love this site, the swoop and kill.
Though I think it only fair that we tie both of mercedes hands behind her back and blindfold her;
give the rest of us a chance... oh, she'd probably just get better, creative constraint and all.
The poem's been up for 5 days, she did give me a chance, in fact, multiple chances. I might have gotten there..someday...maybe...
It's like the shoemaker's elves, I'm not complaining.
You could sew her a tutu, or whatever it is they wear in New Zealand.
Sew... you better ask her if you need to knit it using a sheep.
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
<
Thanks, I'll take it and run.