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Histories

Histories
dukealien Offline
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#1
05-04-2017, 05:27 AM
Histories



Victors’ history, chock-full
of grand self-serving lies
is true as any die
compared to stories losers tell.
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Leanne Offline
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#2
05-04-2017, 05:59 AM
"True as any die" is a lovely line, with just enough ambiguity for a short piece like this. I'm not so keen on "grand self-serving" but that's most likely because I've heard it so often lately -- and I suppose that's important in the context.
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dukealien Offline
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#3
05-05-2017, 10:52 PM
(05-04-2017, 05:59 AM)Leanne Wrote:  "True as any die" is a lovely line, with just enough ambiguity for a short piece like this. I'm not so keen on "grand self-serving" but that's most likely because I've heard it so often lately -- and I suppose that's important in the context.

Valid observation on "grand self-serving," which sort of is, itself Confused  .  ("True as a die" is a Texas-ism, though whether it refers to craps or machine-shop is unclear.)

Considering replacing "stories" with "whoppers," though it's more humorous than the original inspiration for the poem
the "stab in the back" myth in Germany after WWI versus the self-serving "Germany was totally responsible" Allied myth.
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LunaDeLore Offline
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#4
05-14-2017, 12:05 AM
(05-04-2017, 05:27 AM)dukealien Wrote:  Histories



Victors’ history, chock-full
of grand self-serving lies
is true as any die
compared to stories losers tell.

dukealian,

any die? or any dye?....I'm not sure how to take L3. Maybe omitting the conjunction at the beginning of L3 could enhance the read as well. anyway, I like it and hope my suggestions help.

Luna
In your own, each bone comes alive
the skeleton jangles in its perfunctory sleeve....

(Chris Martin)
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dukealien Offline
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#5
05-14-2017, 10:51 AM
(05-14-2017, 12:05 AM)LunaDeLore Wrote:  
(05-04-2017, 05:27 AM)dukealien Wrote:  Histories



Victors’ history, chock-full
of grand self-serving lies
is true as any die
compared to stories losers tell.

dukealian,

any die? or any dye?....I'm not sure how to take L3. Maybe omitting the conjunction at the beginning of L3 could enhance the read as well. anyway, I like it and hope my suggestions help.

Luna

To possibly alleviate confusion (though no reading is *wrong* - just what I was thinking when I wrote L3),
"as any" could be unpacked as, "you get to choose the very best one you can find, and the thing compared will be that good."  I.e., "straight as a ruler" would be an average ruler; straight as *any* ruler would be as straight as the best ruler you can present for comparison.

"true as [a] die" could be unpacked as, "true (square) as the best dice," or "like a machinist's die that cuts threads perfectly."  Gambling with dice is what it is; producing a good threaded bolt from a plain rod is magical.

Good suggestions, all.  Edit may result.
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67eager Offline
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#6
05-14-2017, 05:13 PM
For only 4 lines I think this poem is pretty effective. You seem to suggest that most of the history which we are exposed to comes from those of the 'victors' with their own interests in mind. A bold but interesting statemet all the same. I really struggle with 'as true as any die'. The ambiguity really obscures all the lines that follow it. Perhaps you could clear this line up a little bit. Even though I don't completely understand the last line, it is still effective.
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rayheinrich Offline
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#7
05-14-2017, 07:04 PM
(05-14-2017, 10:51 AM)dukealien Wrote:  
(05-14-2017, 12:05 AM)LunaDeLore Wrote:  
(05-04-2017, 05:27 AM)dukealien Wrote:  Histories



Victors’ history, chock-full
of grand self-serving lies
is true as any die
compared to stories losers tell.

dukealian,

any die? or any dye?....I'm not sure how to take L3. Maybe omitting the conjunction at the beginning of L3 could enhance the read as well. anyway, I like it and hope my suggestions help.

Luna

To possibly alleviate confusion (though no reading is *wrong* - just what I was thinking when I wrote L3),
"as any" could be unpacked as, "you get to choose the very best one you can find, and the thing compared will be that good."  I.e., "straight as a ruler" would be an average ruler; straight as *any* ruler would be as straight as the best ruler you can present for comparison.

"true as [a] die" could be unpacked as, "true (square) as the best dice," or "like a machinist's die that cuts threads perfectly."  Gambling with dice is what it is; producing a good threaded bolt from a plain rod is magical.

Good suggestions, all.  Edit may result.

    I liked that expression as well and I agree with you about bolt production.

Found this:
'The phrase originated as 'as smooth as a die', no doubt referring to the smoothness of the bone that dice were made from.
This dates back to at least the 16th century; for example, Jehan Palsgrave's Lesclarcissement de la langue françoyse, 1530:

   "Make this borde as smothe as a dyce"

It migrated to 'as true as a die' in the 18th century, as found in John Gay's Songs & Ball., New Song on New similes, 1732:

   "You'll know me truer than a die."

By the 19th century it had become 'as straight as a die' as well. The first known record of that form comes
from the USA, in The Janesville Gazette, April 1871:

   "I'm a racing man and up to a thing or two: but am as straight as a die for honesty."


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