We can only be kept in the cages we do not see. A brief history of human enslavement – up to and including your own. From Freedomain Radio, the largest and most popular philosophy conversation in the world. http://www.freedomainradio.com/
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Wow, that is amazing video. Thanks Benny2guns.

in the uk you're even allowed to not work and get subsidized. maybe the masters aren't as bright as they seem in the video nice vid but for me it's rhetoric. why do i say that.

because i don't work. and i still have a good life. i see many like me who don't work and don't pay tax as such. i move around freely.

i think the same vid could be used with a voice over stating how we're all free and it would be just as convincing. sorry but i don't buy into it.

freedom is a state of mind, not my words but i like them;

First and foremost freedom is a state of mind. Fame and fortune is often the enemy of freedom because it is too easy to lose ourselves in the hunt to find or keep, while both elude us. Ultimately it is upon ourselves we rely to achieve our ends. But if we allow ourselves to be paralyzed by the fear of defeat, defeat will pounce on easy prey. But to grow, to learn, to better ourselves as individuals is not within the power of others to negate. We alone are the captain of that ship. And fortune will find us easier than we can ever find it.

freedom is;

The natural state of mankind ...
and I know that this is a controversial idea...
is freedom...
And the proof is the lengths
to which a man, woman, or child will go
to regain it once lost.
He will break loose his chains.
He will decimate his enemies.
He will try and try and try again,
against all odds, against all prejudices.
-John Quincy Adams, movie Amistad

freedom;

When I despair, I remember that all through history
the way of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants, and murderers,
and for a time they can seem invincible,
but in the end they always fall.
Think of it...always.
-Ghandi

freedom;

Everything that is really great and inspiring
is created by the individual who can labor in freedom.
-Albert Einstein

freedom is;

Freedom is a state of mind-
not freedom from something but a sense of freedom,
a freedom to doubt and question everything
and therefore so intense, active and vigorous
that it throws away every form of
dependence, slavery, conformity and acceptance.
-Krishnamurti

For me I profoundly believe this is in fact the way the world spins and acknowledge that a large portion of the people will never be able to see the cage. That should in no way prevent the ones that can from continuing the fight to help the blind.

while i agree that many maybe enslaved to some extent i don't believe 99% of the vid. i don't agree that someone in a job is enslaved.
and in all honesty if you don't see the cage then you're not really enslaved either. blind maybe, stupid maybe but not enslaved.

example.
if i build a cage 200 miles x 200 miles and stick a mouse in the center of it is it caged?

(04-27-2010, 09:27 AM)billy Wrote:  while i agree that many maybe enslaved to some extent i don't believe 99% of the vid. i don't agree that someone in a job is enslaved.
and in all honesty if you don't see the cage then you're not really enslaved either. blind maybe, stupid maybe but not enslaved.

example.
if i build a cage 200 miles x 200 miles and stick a mouse in the center of it is it caged?

Yes but it is a mouse and has not the power to see it. It also has no fear of harm or death to allow another mouse to control it. The mouse does not know you built the cage even if it saw you build it.
Humans on the other hand may well see the cage and still not admit to it's exsistance for fear of reprocusion. This is what makes the world go round and always has since the dawn of the fear of our own mortality.

(04-27-2010, 09:34 AM)Benny2guns Wrote:  

(04-27-2010, 09:27 AM)billy Wrote:  while i agree that many maybe enslaved to some extent i don't believe 99% of the vid. i don't agree that someone in a job is enslaved.
and in all honesty if you don't see the cage then you're not really enslaved either. blind maybe, stupid maybe but not enslaved.

example.
if i build a cage 200 miles x 200 miles and stick a mouse in the center of it is it caged?

Yes but it is a mouse and has not the power to see it. It also has no fear of harm or death to allow another mouse to control it. The mouse does not know you built the cage even if it saw you build it.
Humans on the other hand may well see the cage and still not admit to it's exsistance for fear of reprocusion. This is what makes the world go round and always has since the dawn of the fear of our own mortality.

see, this is where the control thing falls down.

we've been controlling mice and many other animals for years. we are actual farmers of animals. we control them individually and on a global scale.do you really believe animals don't get scared or fear humans or other animals. i've seen it happen more times than i've had hot dinners. it's one of the reasons some animals attack. as for animal controlling another. i say oops. wtf is an alpha male? wtf is the leader of the pack.
wtf is the leading matriarch in elephant herds and hyena clans.

wtf animals are controlled by animals of their own species? take chimps, gorillas lions hyenas, elephants water buffalo etc to name just a few. then we have the insect world. how many species are controlled by a queen. why do they all do her bidding with out question as a collective, talk about totalitarian, just look at an ant or bee or termite colony

what isn't pointed out is that its the animals who don't have the choice to say fuck it.
that we're the ones who can and often do say enough is enough.

i can imagine a buch of chimps planning to start the communist party or overthrow hitler. we can do it they can't with animals it's almost always a singular attempt at becoming alpha etc. in many cases it just doesn't happen till the alpha gets to old and dies.

(04-27-2010, 09:53 AM)billy Wrote:  

(04-27-2010, 09:34 AM)Benny2guns Wrote:  

(04-27-2010, 09:27 AM)billy Wrote:  while i agree that many maybe enslaved to some extent i don't believe 99% of the vid. i don't agree that someone in a job is enslaved.
and in all honesty if you don't see the cage then you're not really enslaved either. blind maybe, stupid maybe but not enslaved.

example.
if i build a cage 200 miles x 200 miles and stick a mouse in the center of it is it caged?

Yes but it is a mouse and has not the power to see it. It also has no fear of harm or death to allow another mouse to control it. The mouse does not know you built the cage even if it saw you build it.
Humans on the other hand may well see the cage and still not admit to it's exsistance for fear of reprocusion. This is what makes the world go round and always has since the dawn of the fear of our own mortality.

see, this is where the control thing falls down.

we've been controlling mice and many other animals for years. we are actual farmers of animals. we control them individually and on a global scale.do you really believe animals don't get scared or fear humans or other animals. i've seen it happen more times than i've had hot dinners. it's one of the reasons some animals attack. as for animal controlling another. i say oops. wtf is an alpha male? wtf is the leader of the pack.
wtf is the leading matriarch in elephant herds and hyena clans.

wtf animals are controlled by animals of their own species? take chimps, gorillas lions hyenas, elephants water buffalo etc to name just a few. then we have the insect world. how many species are controlled by a queen. why do they all do her bidding with out question as a collective, talk about totalitarian, just look at an ant or bee or termite colony

what isn't pointed out is that its the animals who don't have the choice to say fuck it.
that we're the ones who can and often do say enough is enough.

i can imagine a buch of chimps planning to start the communist party or overthrow hitler. we can do it they can't with animals it's almost always a singular attempt at becoming alpha etc. in many cases it just doesn't happen till the alpha gets to old and dies.

It's a good argument but it falls down at the point where they are not aware of their own mortality. Sure you can train a dog to do tricks but thats it. You can take a dog out in the back yard and point a gun at it and it will sit and wag it's tail at you also.

talking about alpha males,it seems not very different from the human world,people trying to control others with wealth ,political power,knowledge,etc.control through promises of material rewards is the biggest one probably.to me freedom is to be able to see this and than act as i see fit to it,that's what i've been doing all my life and i might be fooling myself to some extend but i think it worked up till now.

you said animals don't know fear. i replied, i'm not on about training, i'm on about controlling, a person or animal doesn't need to know about death to feel or know fear, i think thats a silly statement the video made.

raise your voice to a dog and it won't wag it's tail will it?
if you shoot a dog in the leg, i can pretty much say with certainty it won't wag it's tail the next time you point a gun at it.

if we didn't know what a gun or could we'd probably wag our tails as well
the mortality thing is a red herring, all we need to know is fear and most mammals know and feel that.

whats not been said is that we're the only animal prepared to die for what we believe in, most animals aren't, most animals don't have a belief. using animals in the vid was a real stupid thing to do. and whats really fuckin funny is that unlike animals we can see a con from a mile away.

(04-27-2010, 10:15 AM)billy Wrote:  you said animals don't know fear. i replied, i'm not on about training, i'm on about controlling, a person or animal doesn't need to know about death to feel or know fear, i think thats a silly statement the video made.

raise your voice to a dog and it won't wag it's tail will it?
if you shoot a dog in the leg, i can pretty much say with certainty it won't wag it's tail the next time you point a gun at it.

if we didn't know what a gun or could we'd probably wag our tails as well
the mortality thing is a red herring, all we need to know is fear and most mammals know and feel that.

whats not been said is that we're the only animal prepared to die for what we believe in, most animals aren't, most animals don't have a belief. using animals in the vid was a real stupid thing to do. and whats really fuckin funny is that unlike animals we can see a con from a mile away.

People prepared to die for it, lol, don't make me laugh, people prepared to sit back and watch others die in hopes of skating through unscathed and better for it is more the reality. More over, people complacent with their position and happy to help the farmer to keep it.

silly me, i thought some people died for their beliefs.
i thought some people would die for their kids etc, i thought many would die for their country. i thought of all the suicide bombers, all those great men and women during the 1st and 2nd WW's again silly me.

for most shit benny we don't have to die for our beliefs we can just voice an opinion or go on a rally or post a vid on a form etc, but there are some things most of us would die for. there are some things i would gladly die for.

unlike animals most of us (including you probably ) have a hero hiding inside.

One can never tell what one would in fact die for. We say bold things and profess our willingness to die for this or that but till the moment presents itself it's all so much horse shit.
I am of the opinion that far less than the total were willing to die for the cause they signed up for when the moment came.