While I continue to rework The Wayward Sailor (the third edit is on the way), I wanted to post another early (though not too early) poem of mine. This one takes on a darker tone, but I hope has some of the same comedic elements of The Wayward Sailor. Also, you may get the idea that I like to rhyme in my poems. You would not be wrong!

Note: There are a few cliches here that I have yet to wring out for the particular reason that they make the rhyme work. If you all have any ideas in regards to this problem, it would be more than appreciated.

Overheard Conversation


Twas a dark and rainy night,
When two men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking.
At each other, fun, they were poking.

And as I saw these two men,
The wind pitched to me their discourse:
“How do you suppose we fit ‘im
In that little thrift shop casket?”

Then, in reply, the other said:
“Tis quite a pity all we could find
To put this man, still of mind,
Is a dismal thrift shop casket.”

But still on he went,
With a snigger and a cough:
“Don’t you worry and don’t you fret,
For he will find a way to fit.”

“And if that he’s not fain to do,
We’ll chop ‘im up a time or two,
And we shall stuff his body in
That little thrift shop casket!”

(11-24-2015, 07:48 AM)John1865 Wrote:  While I continue to rework The Wayward Sailor (the third edit is on the way), I wanted to post another early (though not too early) poem of mine. This one takes on a darker tone, but I hope has some of the same comedic elements of The Wayward Sailor. Also, you may get the idea that I like to rhyme in my poems. You would not be wrong!

Note: There are a few cliches here that I have yet to wring out for the particular reason that they make the rhyme work. If you all have any ideas in regards to this problem, it would be more than appreciated.

Overheard Conversation


Twas a dark and rainy night,
When two men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking.
At each other, fun, they were poking.

And as I saw these two men,
The wind pitched to me their discourse:
“How do you suppose we fit ‘im
In that little thrift shop casket?”

Then, in reply, the other said:
“Tis quite a pity all we could find
To put this man, still of mind,
Is a dismal thrift shop casket.”

But still on he went,
With a snigger and a cough:
“Don’t you worry and don’t you fret,
For he will find a way to fit.”

“And if that he’s not fain to do,
We’ll chop ‘im up a time or two,
And we shall stuff his body in
That little thrift shop casket!”

I see the story, which is (as intended) both dark and humorous.  A few gentle critiques/suggestions:

Nothing wrong with free verse or blank verse, though you have quite a few line-end rhymes.  If you wanted to, this poem could have a consistent meter which might make it a little easier to read and at the same time funnier (if not darker).  I'd suggest the tom-tom meter of Longfellow's "Hiawatha," known for (among other things) its amenability to humorous parody - that is, /./././.  or "trochaic tetrameter."  Your first stanza could become (apologies for the rewrite),

'Twas a dark and rainy midnight,
When two big men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking,
At each other, fun  , they   were poking.

Just a thought.

In verse 4, line 1, "But still he went," use of "went" (past tense of "go," as in, "And then Veronica goes..." modern replacement for "say" and "said,") seems a little jarring with the more formal/old-fashioned style used elsewhere  ("fain to do").  Could be, for example, "But still he went on," de-modernizing without loss of sense and potentially improved meter.  (My mistake, you do have "on he went" there.)

Finally, and this is a nit-pick, I've seen few thrift shops that sell caskets, except maybe decorative at Halloween.  True, it was not an unknown practice to bury someone in an elaborate casket, then retrieve the casket for re-use and dump the corpse back into the ground in its winding-sheet or a cheap box.  Was waiting for inspiration to strike the duo:  "We could bury him in a basket!"

Bottom line:  Fun concept, and a good start.  Could (IMHO) be improved with some work on easing the rhythm while retaining the sinister, low-rent humor.

(11-24-2015, 07:48 AM)John1865 Wrote:  Overheard Conversation


Twas a dark and rainy night,
When two men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking.
At each other, fun, they were poking.

And as I saw these two men,
The wind pitched to me their discourse:
“How do you suppose we fit ‘im
In that little thrift shop casket?”

Then, in reply, the other said:
“Tis quite a pity all we could find
To put this man, still of mind,
Is a dismal thrift shop casket.”

But still on he went,
With a snigger and a cough:
“Don’t you worry and don’t you fret,
For he will find a way to fit.”

“And if that he’s not fain to do,
We’ll chop ‘im up a time or two,
And we shall stuff his body in
That little thrift shop casket!”

Hello, hopefully I can be of some use. I assume you are using shakesperian english/early modern english and not middle english. I will operate on the assumption that you are not. If you are not I would suggest to drop the contraction 'twas. The contraction "It was" needs an apostrophe 'twas.

The first stanza line 4 I would suggest 'fun' be moved to the front. i.e.
-Fun, at each other, they were poking.-
I also do not think you need the "And" stanza 2 line 1, as it makes it seem to me that everything happened in an instant. The stanzas can represent a progression of time pretty well in your poem; you do not need to tell the audience that the story is going forward. The same for "Then" in stanza 3 line 1. "But," stanza 4 line 1, and "And," stanza 5 line 1. While you use it as part of someones speech it feels like a continuation of yours, and makes it awkward to me. I am unsure if 'Is' is intentional, stanza 3 line 4.

(11-24-2015, 07:48 AM)John1865 Wrote:  While I continue to rework The Wayward Sailor (the third edit is on the way), I wanted to post another early (though not too early) poem of mine. This one takes on a darker tone, but I hope has some of the same comedic elements of The Wayward Sailor. Also, you may get the idea that I like to rhyme in my poems. You would not be wrong!

Note: There are a few cliches here that I have yet to wring out for the particular reason that they make the rhyme work. If you all have any ideas in regards to this problem, it would be more than appreciated.

Overheard Conversation


Twas a dark and rainy night, this is practically plagiarism of 'twas the night before Christmas, my mind went there and hung out for the rest of the poem, but for no reason.
When two men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking.
At each other, fun, they were poking.awkward word phrasing for so little payoff, imo.

And as I saw these two men,
The wind pitched to me their discourse:
“How do you suppose we fit ‘im
In that little thrift shop casket?”you said they were joking each other before, but when you describe what they actually said, it's completely different. Also, the rhyme scheme, why did it decide to go to lunch?

Then, in reply, the other said:said is such a boring word, but you've managed to utilize it's filling ways quite nicely throughout the poem. I think snorted might be better here.
“Tis quite a pity all we could find
To put this man, still of mind,
Is a dismal thrift shop casket.”

But still on he went,
With a snigger and a cough:
“Don’t you worry and don’t you fret,
For he will find a way to fit.”a lot of words just to say "he'll fit". Could you imagine if all the instrument in the entire orchestra decided to play whatever popped into their heads at the exact same time, cause there is a lot of that going on here.

“And if that he’s not fain to do,
We’ll chop ‘im up a time or two,
And we shall stuff his body in
That little thrift shop casket!”

I think the title needs work. I went here expecting more than a couple of career criminals discussing the best way to fit someone in a casket. I also think that the poem lacks perspective. There isn't a story here, there's no plot.

Humour in free or irregular verse, excepting haiku, is an impossibility.
A humourous poem demands form, else it's just lame half-funny lines (so why not read a joke book instead?)
Also, word order inversion is an unnatural offence in poetry.

(11-26-2015, 09:04 PM)ronsaik Wrote:  Humour in free or irregular verse, excepting haiku, is an impossibility.
A humourous poem demands form, else it's just lame half-funny lines (so why not read a joke book instead?)
Also, word order inversion is an unnatural offence in poetry.

Thanks for the advice, thought your third point is wrong. Case in point:

I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks; (Sonnet 130)

To me, fair friend, you never can be old,
For as you were, when first your eye I ey'd, (Sonnet 104)


It seems odd to me, then, to consider word inversion an "unnatural offence" to poetry. You are most clearly wrong in this point.

(12-14-2015, 11:06 AM)John1865 Wrote:  

(11-26-2015, 09:04 PM)ronsaik Wrote:  Humour in free or irregular verse, excepting haiku, is an impossibility.
A humourous poem demands form, else it's just lame half-funny lines (so why not read a joke book instead?)
Also, word order inversion is an unnatural offence in poetry.

Thanks for the advice, thought your third point is wrong. Case in point:

I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks; (Sonnet 130)

To me, fair friend, you never can be old,
For as you were, when first your eye I ey'd, (Sonnet 104)


It seems odd to me, then, to consider word inversion an "unnatural offence" to poetry. You are most clearly wrong in this point.

I was being tongue in cheek - clearly, it didn't come across as such.
Inversion was quite the order of the day in Shakespeare's time, and it was a particular favourite of Shakespeare's.

However, it sounds anachronistic today, as do practices like:
1. rhyming 'mountain' with 'fountain' as Shelley did all the time
2. writing in the 'thou /thine' style of the King James bible (not an uncommon occurrence) to sound profound and spiritual
3. ending a line on 'fair' as a synonym for beautiful instead of light colored, just to make it rhyme with 'hair'

Naturally, no rule is eternal. If done in a skilful way, any rule can be broken.
In your case, there are two reasons why deviating from normal speech just to make line ends rhyme is not a good idea:

1. It draws attention to the rhyme and away from the meaning of the line.
2. It's clumsy and suggests that the poet is running out of ideas. An analogue from the world of comedy would be the corny joke or the insufferable pun (which Shakespeare and his contemporaries thought to be cutting edge of their craft at the time)

(12-14-2015, 11:45 AM)ronsaik Wrote:  

(12-14-2015, 11:06 AM)John1865 Wrote:  

(11-26-2015, 09:04 PM)ronsaik Wrote:  Humour in free or irregular verse, excepting haiku, is an impossibility.
A humourous poem demands form, else it's just lame half-funny lines (so why not read a joke book instead?)
Also, word order inversion is an unnatural offence in poetry.

Thanks for the advice, thought your third point is wrong. Case in point:

I have seen roses damask'd, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks; (Sonnet 130)

To me, fair friend, you never can be old,
For as you were, when first your eye I ey'd, (Sonnet 104)


It seems odd to me, then, to consider word inversion an "unnatural offence" to poetry. You are most clearly wrong in this point.

I was being tongue in cheek - clearly, it didn't come across as such.
Inversion was quite the order of the day in Shakespeare's time, and it was a particular favourite of Shakespeare's.

However, it sounds anachronistic today, as do practices like:
1. rhyming 'mountain' with 'fountain' as Shelley did all the time
2. writing in the 'thou /thine' style of the King James bible (not an uncommon occurrence) to sound profound and spiritual
3. ending a line on 'fair' as a synonym for beautiful instead of light colored, just to make it rhyme with 'hair'

Naturally, no rule is eternal. If done in a skilful way, any rule can be broken.
In your case, there are two reasons why deviating from normal speech just to make line ends rhyme is not a good idea:

1. It draws attention to the rhyme and away from the meaning of the line.
2. It's clumsy and suggests that the poet is running out of ideas. An analogue from the world of comedy would be the corny joke or the insufferable pun (which Shakespeare and his contemporaries thought to be cutting edge of their craft at the time)

I hope I sounded neither rude nor short in my reply. Rather, it is the case that I find short, didactic turns of phrase to be quite insufferable. As such, I take offense to a degree unwarranted by such tongue in cheek remarks. I find no problem with your logic, for inversion is quite an old tool in poetry, and perhaps it belongs better in a by-gone era. 

But, I simply cannot abide it. Perhaps I am just and old-soul trapped in a modern world, or perhaps I am just a poor poet, but I find the inversion of sentence structure an invaluable poetic device, precisely because of its anachronistic nature. 

I cannot disagree that my inversion in this poem is particularly unskillful (I think I have improved in my latter implementation by using it more sparingly). Thank you once again for your advice, and please continue to leave more.

fair point - my comment was a bit too smart alecky on reflection, and not helpful in the sense intended.
keep up the good work.

Dark!! Nice though. It's more of a dark humor rather than plain drab. I like your style though, keep this teeter-totter of dark/humor balanced and I could see a lot of good stuff like this coming out. Comments in bold below

(11-24-2015, 07:48 AM)John1865 Wrote:  While I continueundefined to rework The Wayward Sailor (the third edit is on the way), I wanted to post another early (though not too early) poem of mine. This one takes on a darker tone, but I hope has some of the same comedic elements of The Wayward Sailor. Also, you may get the idea that I like to rhyme in my poems. You would not be wrong!

Note: There are a few cliches here that I have yet to wring out for the particular reason that they make the rhyme work. If you all have any ideas in regards to this problem, it would be more than appreciated.

Overheard Conversation


Twas a dark and rainy night,
When two men took to smoking.
Both were laughing. Both were joking.
At each other, fun, they were poking.

And as I saw these two men,
The wind pitched to me their discourse:
“How do you suppose we fit ‘im
In that little thrift shop casket?”

Then, in reply, the other said:
“Tis quite a pity all we could find
To put this man, still of mind,
Is a dismal thrift shop casket.”

But still on he went,
With a snigger and a cough:
“Don’t you worry and don’t you fret,
For he will find a way to fit.”

“And if that he’s not fain to do,
We’ll chop ‘im up a time or two,
And we shall stuff his body in
That little thrift shop casket!”
^I love this stanza, it makes me laugh


Your rhyme scheme confuses me. If you don't care about having a rhyme scheme it's fine how it is, but if you do you may want to find some common ground