In Defense of the Cold Ones


Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing.  

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes.

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat
tasting lips yields no flavor
delicious games produce no favors.



They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony. 

(12-12-2014, 09:45 AM)cotidiano Wrote:  In Defense of the Cold Ones
Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing.  
A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes.
This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat
tasting lips yields no flavor
delicious games produce no favors.

They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony. 

This is Serious Workshopping so the first item on your agenda will be some serious workshopping. Your previous explique gives me more concern than I would normallly admit to as I am always wary of those who write obscure prose then say "guess what it all means". There is so much wrong with this, in fact I cannot find anything right, that this general comment is as likely to help as anything. The thing reads like a piece desperately created to be sensational, and accordingly fails miserably because the desperation is  greater than the creation....and the concept gets buried. Shame on you...it is a great idea worthy of clarity.
OK. That's the good news. The bad news is that it has nothing to work with. The words used just trundle along...over modification is excessive and naively applied, the opening line gives attributes to "appetites" which lay abstraction upon abstraction without any apparent understanding. "Shameless", by the absence of shame implies a consciousness...to follow with "mindless" is a complete disconnect from meaning. Then with a triumphant error you link your loose  chain of sentience to some diametrically described physicality....appetite. It is just self-satisfying (I choose this expression wisely) evacuation of words like a good shit after a vindaloo.
As I said, this is bad news, primarily because, though hidden from this reader's view, you presumably have a point to make.. I say this kindly because I cannnot believe you would  go to the minor inconvenience of stringing un-metered, non-rhyming,  obscurely juxtaposed words together for no reason.I have read other work from you.
The last two lines of the penultimate stanza says it all....or nothing.The snake has eaten the rabbit...move on.
For me, this is just an exercise in verbosity pretending to be a piece of poetic endeavour. What came first, the concept or the construction. I cannot tell. I look forward to your next edit.
Best,
tectak

Cotidiano,

Welcome to serious!

I agree w Tectak, and I hope this airs it out some.

Proofers edit:

In Defense of the Cold Ones

Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh[, and]
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing.
--I don't know where to start, here.
--the topsy-turvy structure works to good effect except I don't know what effect you're wanting and why. Exceedingly difficult to proof.

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes.
--ditto. What're you doing here with the Yoda-ese?

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat[,]
tasting lips yields no flavor[, and]
delicious games produce no favors.

They sleep in self-inflicted starvation[,]
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes[,]
content with inner ecstasy[, and]
living without gluttony.
--ditto. very hard to proof.

Copy edit:

In Defense of the Cold Ones
--okay. So, the poem is designed to defend "Cold Ones"--could be a mysterious, ancient entity, a beer, or people who are in some ways cold.
--from the title, I anticipate a "showdown" structure, with an attack levied and a defense raised

[out:Shameless, mindless, as understood] appetites
feasting on sensual flesh
--the above is nonsense. appetites don't feast, they incentivize feasting
wet and hard the blood and bone
--blood is not hard, bone is not wet. fix it.
these animals lick and suck with longing.
--what animals? the cold ones?

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
--stoics? why the mystery?
defying our loving Garden birth
--???
denying our indelible double helixes.
--"indelible"? Do you mean "denying the indelibility"? And, again, why all the SAT words?

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat
--this is inexcusably confusing.
tasting lips yields no flavor
--"tasting lips" is what? Kissing?
delicious games produce no favors.
--I can't make head or tail of this. Is "games" a pun? Delicious but producing no flavors? Is this a thought about the cold ones? Feel free to clarify in a response . . .

They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony.
--I'm lost

first off;

hi, welcome and thanks for the feedback you've given so far :J:

the poem:
some of the lines on their own read well enough but i can run them together in order to get enough out of them. the titles gives me a hint that it has to do with death, religion also seems to be at play but in general it feels too ambiguous. wish i could have been more helpful

(12-12-2014, 09:45 AM)cotidiano Wrote:  In Defense of the Cold Ones


Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh would this be a better first line and the 1st line be a better 2nd line?
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing.  

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes.

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat this is one of those good stand alone lines for it obvious imagery.
tasting lips yields no flavor
delicious games produce no favors.



They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes as is this,
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony. 

YES, YES, YES! A huge thanks to all of you--I've been really wanting this piece to be torn apart because I felt there was a kernel of a good idea in it but that the execution was somehow embarrassing in a way I couldn't define. Plus, you all made me laugh with your comments. I had difficulty expressing my main idea, and it's now extremely obvious that it's not coming through in the slightest. So the problems include an excess of SAT words, heavy adjectives, lack of imagery, annoyingly intentional vagueness, and a desperate need to sound intellectual or poetic, among other things. This was a poem I wrote a while back when I believed that poetry was meant to be "vague" (nowadays, I don't think it's necessarily meant to be vague, but that still seems to be the case when I'm reading poetry, as the meanings are always ambiguous to me).

Perhaps there are elements in this piece that I can repurpose, but I will probably end up doing a complete overhaul. Crow, I liked your comment about anticipating a "showdown" structure, "with an attack levied and a defense raised." "The Cold Ones" refers to asexuals, as in people with no sexual appetites, not beings capable of independent reproduction. I was definitely too in love with the food/sex metaphor in this draft, so much so that I seemed to have forgotten to provide any argument actually defending asexuality. A better structure for this poem would be presenting common criticisms of asexuality and then providing the counterpoint, as Crow suggested. I will probably start the poem with "Asexual" or "Asexuality," or at least define the term directly somewhere and relate it to "The Cold Ones." I really don't want there to be any ambiguity as to the subject matter. Let me know if you have any additional advice on revisions, given this explanation.

New to Pigpen, posting obligatory critiques before posting....
I have to say, I can't figure out this poem at all.
The most important question I think is "Who the hell are the Cold Ones?" It's in the title, and in the main text as well. The next question is what is this poem about. I hate to say this, but the words you use have to make sense. I've found it useful to actually look at the dictionary meaning.
So Line by line:
L1 whose appetites?
L2 sensual flesh...what's that? Cyrus twerking?
L3 so the most important characteristic of blood is that it is wet, and bone that it is hard? Best you can do?
L4 what animal is that?
L5 stark contrast to what? unidentified animals sucking things?
L6 what is the fruit of carnal knowledge...offspring?
L7 help!
L8 DNA?
L9 what's "this"?
L10 so?
L11 who, what, where, WHY? (who's tasting, whose lips (they suddenly appeared in the Garden or fell out of the twisting helix, I guess) and then there's the question of plurals...if a singular person is tasting multiple lips your usage is correct, but I'm so confused by now, I don't care any more.
L12 Why not? were they supposed to?
L13 what does sleeping have to do with hunger strikes?
L14 your only decent imagery left me with the desire to wash the sticky residue off.
L15 in my experience ecstasy bears no resemblance to contentment.
L16 Definitely leaves me hanging. The last line ought to resolve. This line makes me clutch my temples.

I deliberately critiqued before reading the other critiques. I am delighted at your responses. I think you've been reading bad poetry. May I suggest a book compiled by Garrison Keillor called "Good Poems"? Speaking from experience, Asexuals are not "cold." My top recommendation would be to speak personally and vividly in your poetry, by using language with enthusiasm and precision. Convey your feelings through concise imagery and make every word count. If you are identifying with asexuality then do you think of yourself as a Cold One? Make us believe it. My feet are cold right now and it is very unpleasant. Ask yourself what are the common associations with "cold" and are those associations what you really want to evoke?

(12-12-2014, 09:45 AM)cotidiano Wrote:  In Defense of the Cold Ones


Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing.  

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes.

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat
tasting lips yields no flavor
delicious games produce no favors.



They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony. 

Well, I can give you some simple advice, though I may not be the best to do it. Avoid the word "for" if you can. The meme tread on lightly seems to display that type of attempted poetic profundity.  Also, maybe add some more concreteness. If there is a moral that goes beyond facts perhaps it should be shown instead of told in violent abstraction. Creative diction seems to be appreciated though, if you can utilize it correctly. I've made worse.

Kind of a reiteration of what others have said...I'd like more conceptual clues within the poem personally. Ambiguity can be a strong stylistic tool, but you don't want to leave your readers in the dark either.

Shameless, mindless appetites
feasting on sensual flesh [great way to start, strong and evocative]
wet and hard the blood and bone
these animals lick and suck with longing. [did not enjoy this second portion, word choice is a little bland, I wanted something to take me further into the idea you opened with]

A stark contrast the Cold Ones are–
those who refuse the fruit of carnal knowledge
defying our loving Garden birth
denying our indelible double helixes. [love your word choice and imagery here, but I'm confused with the contrasts you're making, it seems like maybe you're suggesting a disconnect between science and religion, but seem to side with neither, or your subject does at least]

This is our world without hunger:
there are no famines for those who never eat
tasting lips yields no flavor
delicious games produce no favors. [The second half of this is a little awkward to read, but I really like this section, don't have too much here]



They sleep in self-inflicted starvation
fingering with only sweet, candied strokes
content with inner ecstasy
living without gluttony. [I really enjoyed this section, but I can't say I think it's a particularly strong closer; I feel like it isn't a wonderful way to conclude]