I see a young woman
in the glass reflection
of the Andrew Square Metro; Be wary of reversed intentions when using semicolons...or mirrors. You have written a sentence. Stop. Do not reverse back along the tracks by  making a link between your opening gambit and the wholly more informative line which follows. Allowing for musings in pensive cameos can lead you in to loops. Who cares what the metro station is called? I don't need to know and certainly don't care and you don't need to know because you were there
her face is the sexual face Whoa there. Here we go again. You look at someone and whistfully (pensively, wantonly, passionately or whatever) decide she has a "sexual face". Now, you may know what you mean and it is not beyond the bounds of reason that you are going to pass this information on to the reader....after all, you told me which metro it was...but no. Nothing. Zilch. It was the kind of face you always  desired? Harumph! Means nothing to me unless the duality of meaning implies that you would like to look like a girl. Plastic surgery...that MIGHT be an interesting route. If I am wrong, it isn't.
I’ve always desired; Yep...colonic discharge. You CAN write sentences sequentially without penalty.
her hands hold rosary beads
like soft blue bird eggs; Hmmm. Well, just read it out loud. You should write. "In her hands (location) she holds rosary beads (content), soft-blue bird eggs." The last comma ends the statement referring to "the holding of something" then metaphorically describes the something. I doubt, though, that you really thought this through as the alternatives to the nonsensical (or at very least counter-intuitive) "soft eggs", forces me to link soft-blue as a colour descriptor. Yes? You still need to convince me you don't mean a soft blue-bird egg. OK. Pedantic....but defend yourself with a different weapon.
she might be remembering
what she responded either how she responded or what she replied. As it is it is... er....wrong
last evening when he asked herClue belatedly. He asked her a question, she replied.
how lucky he was ...or is it a question? No. Let me get this right. HE asked HER...how lucky HE was...to have HER share HIS bed?? Sure beats the shit outta me. I mean, what IS the answer and who the fuck gives it?
to have her share his bed; These semicolons are now tedious to the point of irritation; if only because they almost always precede a schoolboy howler
she told him according to mother,  Here it comes. The good 'ol "I shot an elephant in my pyjamas" joke Take your pick. She told him what her mother said, or her mother told you and you are telling us. Now I realise that the comma after "mother" is moot, but I have learnt to distrust your intentions. The circle is squared.
angels are always watching
but sometimes it doesn’t hurt
to pray anyway.
Hi 71,
Good thoughts are only as good as the expression of the same. Deliberately meandering grammar and syntax is often used, not always, as an excuse...er ...explanation for pensive musings . I am not saying that this applies here...so there must be some other reason.
It needs a short back and sides, with maybe some oily gel to hold it all in place. Then it could be quite tidy.
Best,
tectak

how she responded? "she might be remembering"?

what's the rationale behind all the semicolons? It seems sentences would do just as well, with less confusion.

"when he asked her how lucky he was to have her share his bed" It says "he asked her" but this is not a question.

How does the narrator know these things, is this to imply he is also the man? If so, why be so obtuse about it?

I must assume that "Andrew Square Metro" is some kind of bus station, unless it has some more non-obvious meaning, then it should probably be footnoted. It leads one to suspect that it plays a larger role than simply a place as it is in the title.

"her" response is not to a question, and seems generally a non sequitur.

I'm sure there may be something symbolic under this layer of malaise, but it bypasses me.

dale

(12-07-2014, 06:57 AM)71degrees Wrote:  I see a young woman
in the glass reflection
of the Andrew Square Metro; (Going to point out now that the semicolons are being used without need, especially when some of the sentences can end as sentences, and there isn't much relation to the next sentence you want to tie them to.)
her face is the sexual face
I’ve always desired; (It has a boldness to it, and I like that.)
her hands hold rosary beads
like soft blue bird eggs; (These last two lines are great.)
she might be remembering
what she responded ("what" isn't working for me here.  Try "how she responded"?)
last evening when he asked her
how lucky he was
to have her share his bed; ("share" is weak.  "in" would even be stronger, and so would other word choices like "occupy" etc.  This sentence can end, and the semicolon is not needed.)
she told him according to mother, (Adding "that" between "him" and "according" creates a better flow between the words.  It's hard to tell when commas are needed in a lot of cases, and personally speaking, a comma is not needed here.  The line is just fine to transition into the next without punctuation, otherwise the comma gives an awkward pause.)
angels are always watching
but sometimes it doesn’t hurt
to pray anyway.  (I like this closer.  I had a problem with it at first, but after re-reading it a few times, and fully trying to grasp everything, it has become favorable.)

The major thing that got in my way was the awkward punctuation.  Aside from that I really liked this piece.  

(12-07-2014, 08:32 AM)Erthona Wrote:  how she responded? "she might be remembering"?

what's the rationale behind all the semicolons? It seems sentences would do just as well, with less confusion.

"when he asked her how lucky he was to have her share his bed" It says "he asked her" but this is not a question.

How does the narrator know these things, is this to imply he is also the man? If so, why be so obtuse about it?  

I must assume that "Andrew Square Metro" is some kind of bus station, unless it has some more non-obvious meaning, then it should probably be footnoted. It leads one to suspect that it plays a larger role than simply a place as it is in the title.

"her" response is not to a question, and seems generally a non sequitur.  

I'm sure there may be something symbolic under this layer of malaise, but it bypasses me.

dale

Erthona: I agree w/"how" rather than "what"…thank you for this. Nothing symbolic going on here. You're trying too hard to be impressed. Haven't you ever seen anyone you've never met and had a running conversation w/that person, imagining who they are, where they've been, what they've talked about? The narrator would know everything about them. He "could" be the man, but in this case, he isn't. The man is the man.

I do appreciate your assumptions, I do, but again, let the poem come to you for what it is, not for what you want it to be.

(12-07-2014, 10:29 AM)Eluoh Wrote:  

(12-07-2014, 06:57 AM)71degrees Wrote:  I see a young woman
in the glass reflection
of the Andrew Square Metro; (Going to point out now that the semicolons are being used without need, especially when some of the sentences can end as sentences, and there isn't much relation to the next sentence you want to tie them to.)
her face is the sexual face
I’ve always desired; (It has a boldness to it, and I like that.)
her hands hold rosary beads
like soft blue bird eggs; (These last two lines are great.)
she might be remembering
what she responded ("what" isn't working for me here.  Try "how she responded"?)
last evening when he asked her
how lucky he was
to have her share his bed; ("share" is weak.  "in" would even be stronger, and so would other word choices like "occupy" etc.  This sentence can end, and the semicolon is not needed.)
she told him according to mother, (Adding "that" between "him" and "according" creates a better flow between the words.  It's hard to tell when commas are needed in a lot of cases, and personally speaking, a comma is not needed here.  The line is just fine to transition into the next without punctuation, otherwise the comma gives an awkward pause.)
angels are always watching
but sometimes it doesn’t hurt
to pray anyway.  (I like this closer.  I had a problem with it at first, but after re-reading it a few times, and fully trying to grasp everything, it has become favorable.)

The major thing that got in my way was the awkward punctuation.  Aside from that I really liked this piece.  

Thank you. Your insight is helpful. As to the "awkwardness" of the punctuation…imagine "...,and" instead of each semi-colon. Reason: in a poem this short ALL thoughts are related. The poem consists of six (or seven…depends if the last comma is even needed, but b/c there are three clauses within, I put a comma there) independent clauses. You are correct, they "could" end w/periods, but the short, choppiness of the thoughts led me to put semicolons between. Forget the grammar end of it and picture a man looking at a young woman and the first man imagining what she did last night with a different man. All these thoughts are going through the narrator's head. People don't think in complete sentences. They don't think in semicolons, either, so I may be better off writing this in drift with no punctuation at all. I did do this originally, and it was even more confusing. At least to me. Periods do work, but it loses something in the offering with this approach.

Thanks for your thoughts. I will think strongly about the "bed sharing" image. I can only assume if she shared his bed, she would be "in" the bed, but still, your wanting of the image to be stronger is legitimate. I want to stay away from a male domination type of sexual situation. The woman enjoyed the tryst just as much as the man did…just as much as the narrator imagines she would if she were with him, but as she infers, she is praying…just in case.

"let the poem come to you for what it is, not for what you want it to be."

Well yes, I could do that, if there were some clear/little/tiny line of demarcation, between here and there to indicate that. How am I as a reader suppose to know that is what is happening? Plus with the odd little exchange going on at the end it makes one think, ah, something else is going on here. Yes, I could take it that way, as just some guy daydreaming, except there is really nothing in the poem that would lead me to that conclusion. Not to be mean, but I think it is really less than the courageous way out to blame the failure of a poem on the reader(certainly we all have either done this or wanted to do so, I know I have, but it does little to develop any decent rapport between writer and reader). If you have to come back after the reading and explain the poem as you did to both myself and Eluoh ( "Forget the grammar end of it and picture a man looking at a young woman and the first man imagining what she did last night ") then that really speaks to a weakness in the poem, not a lack in the reader.

Dale

I think that if you combined your poem with euloh's poem, yall would have something. There is a similarity between them.

(12-08-2014, 05:17 AM)Erthona Wrote:  "let the poem come to you for what it is, not for what you want it to be."

Well yes, I could do that, if there were some clear/little/tiny line of demarcation, between here and there to indicate that. How am I as a reader suppose to know that is what is happening? Plus with the odd little exchange going on at the end it makes one think, ah, something else is going on here. Yes, I could take it that way, as just some guy daydreaming, except there is really nothing in the poem that would lead me to that conclusion. Not to be mean, but I think it is really less than the courageous way out to blame the failure of a poem on the reader(certainly we all have either done this or wanted to do so, I know I have, but it does little to develop any decent rapport between writer and reader). If you have to come back after the reading and explain the poem as you did to both myself and Eluoh ( "Forget the grammar end of it and picture a man looking at a young woman and the first man imagining what she did last night ") then that really speaks to a weakness in the poem, not a lack in the reader.

Dale

Again, thanks. I only did it b/c you indicated the message/intent had "bypassed" you. As a reader you would never know what is happening in all poems b/c poetry is not meant to be a clear cut medium. Robert Frost agreed w/any and all interpretations of his poems, now matter how odd they were b/c poetry is art and is meant to be interpreted as any work of art would be. I don't have a clue why Mona Lisa is smiling. I don't even know if it's a smile, nor do I need to know. Now, I am not comparing this poem to the Mona Lisa, but the same logic applies. I continue to appreciate any and all comments. I appreciate yours.

(12-08-2014, 07:18 AM)Qdeathstar Wrote:  I think that if you combined your poem with euloh's poem, yall would have something. There is a similarity between them.

I think you may be right.  

"I only did it b/c you indicated the message/intent had "bypassed" you. As a reader you would never know what is happening in all poems b/c poetry is not meant to be a clear cut medium."

Not to beat a dead horse but no, it is not because I interpreted it differently, it is because you did not write it. Your intent was to show a man in a bus station who upon seeing a girl who he thought was the most desirable girl he had ever seen, began to daydream about what she did last night. The problem is You did not convey this. The information is not there. It has nothing to do with your Mona Lisa example. One, we don't know what the intention of da Vinci was outside of painting that picture. On the other hand we have a very clear account of your intent of what you meant this poem to be. I am saying what you meant this poem to be is not there. You are certainly welcome to disagree with that assessment, but I find it somewhat offensive the way you keep trying to re-characterize what I am saying. I did not misinterpret anything, I simply failed to find what you intended to put in the poem but failed to do so. As I said you are welcome to disagree with that, but that is what I am saying. I am saying the failure of the poem is not on my part, nor is a result of a different interpretation by me. It is my experience that when such an occurrence as this happens (and it has happened plenty of times to me in my poetry writing) that the reader is telling the writer necessary information is missing from the poem for the reader to get from the current poem, to where the writer envisions them being. This is a common in poetry. Poets assuming that the reader has certain knowledge that they do not, and projecting that information onto their poem. I must assume that you think there is more information in your poem than there is, this is a very common problem, but it is  a problem with the poem. Just so I am clear, I am saying there is nothing in your poem that would tell a reader that the first speaker remains the speaker throughout, and that this is a fantasy daydream by that speaker about a girl he just happens to notice at a bus station. Please, just understand this has nothing to do with interpretation as there is nothing there to interpret. You are certainly free to disagree with me, and call me names, discount me as a fool, but please do not say this is a matter of interpretation, it has nothing to do with that.

Dale        

(12-08-2014, 12:08 PM)Erthona Wrote:  "I only did it b/c you indicated the message/intent had "bypassed" you. As a reader you would never know what is happening in all poems b/c poetry is not meant to be a clear cut medium."

Not to beat a dead horse but no, it is not because I interpreted it differently, it is because you did not write it. Your intent was to show a man in a bus station who upon seeing a girl who he thought was the most desirable girl he had ever seen, began to daydream about what she did last night. The problem is You did not convey this. The information is not there. It has nothing to do with your Mona Lisa example. One, we don't know what the intention of da Vinci was outside of painting that picture. On the other hand we have a very clear account of your intent of what you meant this poem to be. I am saying what you meant this poem to be is not there. You are certainly welcome to disagree with that assessment, but I find it somewhat offensive the way you keep trying to re-characterize what I am saying. I did not misinterpret anything, I simply failed to find what you intended to put in the poem but failed to do so. As I said you are welcome to disagree with that, but that is what I am saying. I am saying the failure of the poem is not on my part, nor is a result of a different interpretation by me. It is my experience that when such an occurrence as this happens (and it has happened plenty of times to me in my poetry writing) that the reader is telling the writer necessary information is missing from the poem for the reader to get from the current poem, to where the writer envisions them being. This is a common in poetry. Poets assuming that the reader has certain knowledge that they do not, and projecting that information onto their poem. I must assume that you think there is more information in your poem than there is, this is a very common problem, but it is  a problem with the poem. Just so I am clear, I am saying there is nothing in your poem that would tell a reader that the first speaker remains the speaker throughout, and that this is a fantasy daydream by that speaker about a girl he just happens to notice at a bus station. Please, just understand this has nothing to do with interpretation as there is nothing there to interpret. You are certainly free to disagree with me, and call me names, discount me as a fool, but please do not say this is a matter of interpretation, it has nothing to do with that.

Dale        

Of course you are free to interpret the poem any way you wish, including not being able to interpret it at all. Thanks for this exchange. It helps. And please, at no time did I call you names. Peace to you.