What makes a poem good? Words.

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Jonathon Swift said it was the proper words in the proper places.

(07-21-2014, 05:47 PM)MustIenteraUsername Wrote:  I've struggled with this question, as i don't seem to get it right. Can i please get your opinions?

Good poems, oddly enough, always seem to be poems that I like.

That's a big question, what makes art good? When strolling a museum what makes me stop in front of one piece and not another? For me it's either when they have successfully communicated, when I get a view into an emotion or experience they were tapping into or when their use of their chosen medium is so skilled it holds me long enough to absorb what they were getting at. Maybe the two are the same thing.

A poem that works for me makes me read repeatedly, pulls me through it each time with interest in its successful use of word and form while it reveals its many layers.

What interests me on one day is not the same as what I'm drawn to on another, though there are some pieces that stop me in my tracks each time. I think part of what makes some pieces my favorites is my own journey that I have taken with it and that, of course, will be different for each of us.

IME, one of the great things about this site is reading and being read by people who have all sorts of views of what is successful. It's for each poet to figure out how they can best communicate, and what is worth the effort it takes.

A good poem is one that is still talking to new poems a half a century after you are dead.

(07-21-2014, 08:02 PM)ellajam Wrote:  That's a big question, what makes art good? When strolling a museum what makes me stop in front of one piece and not another? For me it's either when they have successfully communicated, when I get a view into an emotion or experience they were tapping into or when their use of their chosen medium is so skilled it holds me long enough to absorb what they were getting at. Maybe the two are the same thing.

A poem that works for me makes me read repeatedly, pulls me through it each time with interest in its successful use of word and form while it reveals its many layers.

What interests me on one day is not the same as what I'm drawn to on another, though there are some pieces that stop me in my tracks each time. I think part of what makes some pieces my favorites is my own journey that I have taken with it and that, of course, will be different for each of us.

IME, one of the great things about this site is reading and being read by people who have all sorts of views of what is successful. It's for each poet to figure out how they can best communicate, and what is worth the effort it takes.

Good answer!

Here's what they say on this website, this is posted under judging poetry in the serious workshop section.


"Method: The way the work is presented. Structure and language especially.
Manner: How it's presented. Imagery, sonics, metaphor.
Matter: WHAT is being said, the argument/examples/information


Method: Does the form of the poem support the content?
This is generally more rigid for structured poetry than freeverse. For example, if someone writes in meter there are standard measures to decide whether it's been done properly. Similarly with cinquains, rictameters and other set forms. There's no such requirement for free verse. For either, though:

-- Look at line breaks, line lengths and punctuation. Are these carefully placed or arbitrary? Do they provide emphasis? Do they contribute to mood?

-- Is the language of the poem suitable? Does the tone convey the appropriate mood? Look at things like vernacular, archaisms, scientific discourse. Do these "mesh"? If not, does the language choice provide contrast/juxtapositions/irony or is it simply "wrong"?

-- Does the poem appear fluid or does it seem forced? Is the language stilted and awkward? Do inversions of syntax and other grammatical oddities contribute to the piece or detract from it? Rhyme will come into this as well -- any rhymes should seem natural and not overstated or obvious.

Manner: How "poetic" is the poem?

-- Is the phrasing interesting and original?

-- Are all metaphors etc clearly drawn and continued, or are they seemingly random and overblown?

-- Does the imagery/symbolism make sense or does it seem too personal/closed?

-- Do individual sounds/words enhance the poem? For example, lyric poetry is better served with softer, rounder sounds and sibilants. Battle poems -- hard sharp sounds. Consider how the sounds contribute to the speed of the poem. This ties in closely with the method but also very strongly supports the "imagery" side.

Matter: What is being said?

-- Is the topic of the poem interesting? Bearing in mind that any topic may be interesting or dull depending on the way it's presented -- so, is the poet finding that required hook?

-- Is it logically presented? This will obviously not come into play in certain kinds of poetry (surrealism defies logic deliberately, for example). Further to this, though, consider whether the poem keep the reader's interest or is a bunch of non sequiturs that are unlinked by any devices.


Remember: Whether you LIKE the poem is the very last thing you should consider if you wish to remain objective."

good example above

I think a good poem makes you like it even more the more you read it. If it is something I can't relate to, or too ambiguous, or has been said a million time before and much better, it probably won't get a second read from me. I can go back and read the great poets time and time again and realize something new every time, and that's what makes them great.

Alcohol, sex, maybe a club sandwich.
And perhaps a contemplative dissatisfaction with humanity.

I don't know the answer to that. There are the poems that I like no matter, there are the poems that are great, some i like, some I'm "meh" on, though try to acknowledge their rightful place. I'm not good enough of a critic to say why about such things/opinions...fuck...I like what I like...how pedestrian of me...

is a good poem a poem that you like? when i started trying to write poetry, i was on one of those not so clever vanity sites and i actually thought it was all good poetry, mine included. i'd very very little good poetry and to be truthful thought good poetry was the worst kind. now i've read a lot more there's a lot less poetry i see as good poetry, in that it impresses me (i see all poetry as good poetry, in that poets should always be on the path of improving and learning the craft)

so at the beginning i realized i didn't actually like the poetry, i just didn't know how to understand the good stuff, when all you eat is turnips a piece of medium rare angus can be hard to swallow

^^^Yeah, it's a work in progress, I guess, a moving scale. But I've loved great poems right from the start, others not so much. But I do try to understand the buzz as to why, inquire within why something is supposed to be hailed as good, even though it didn't strike me so at first (and may still not).

I don't know...honestly...

What makes a poem good?

Learning to write them instead of wasting time with the same old stupid questions.

(07-22-2014, 03:59 PM)Leanne Wrote:  What makes a poem good?

Learning to write them instead of wasting time with the same old stupid questions.

I try. When i go into a poem that "holds" me, I give it every fucking drop of what I've got. It may suck to others, but I truly live and die to get that fucking thing right.

That much I know about me.

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A simple parallel for me is food. If one were supervising others, one could easily answer important questions such as ''Have I made this fried egg properly?'' with just a glance, and a sniff to make sure the trainee had not added some alien ingredient. ''Is this a junket?'' in like manner could be judged, as to whether it had set or not, although a taste would be necessary to make quite sure.

Or cheeses. ''Is this a good Stilton?'' Now, there is form; there is texture also - a Stilton is not a hard cheese nor a soft one, firm, yet not as firm as a Cheddar, let's say. Then there is the all-important taste.

Is it necessary for the supervisor to like either cheese or junket? No. So he can say, in a rather dry way, that, yes this is done right, or not. But when he goes home, and tucks into the pickled garlic -- that is not just suitably made food, he enjoys it. Why? The question borders on the absurd. Our brains know why we like cheese, or garlic, or Goyas or poems. But our brains are ultra complicated, and rather secretive - they don't even let on why I have a liking for coffee, although there must be a reason, since otherwise, I wouldn't like it.

I have laboured the point quite enough. Mechanically, we can recognise that certain things tally with the requirements necessary for them to be those things. Likes and dislikes are something quite different. That is why it is said one cannot argue over taste. A poem for me needs a certain je ne sais quoi --and that's the thing--I don't know what. Q.E.D.

(07-22-2014, 03:59 PM)Leanne Wrote:  What makes a poem good?

Learning to write them instead of wasting time with the same old stupid questions.

Called out again.

I don't know, but I can say dedicate yourself to the art of writing poetry, and improvement will come. Invest 10,000 hours into reading, writing, and analysis of poetry, and see where you're at after every 100 hours. Learn from the more experienced members around you. Learn from your mistakes and don't take things personally. Detach yourself from your work.

I haven't even invested 100 hours into poetry...my experience with writing comes solely from the little college I did attend in Grinnell, IA (I dropped out fairly early on...something I regret to this day), and AP courses throughout high school.

Don't be afraid to let loose a little bit.

(07-22-2014, 03:59 PM)Leanne Wrote:  What makes a poem good?

Learning to write them instead of wasting time with the same old stupid questions.

I don't think there is a more important question in the writing of poetry than "what makes a poem good?"

An old friend of mine dedicated his life to answering that question and even wrote this short manual to help others:

http://www.the-rathouse.com/files/prosody.pdf

(07-23-2014, 10:31 AM)milo Wrote:  

(07-22-2014, 03:59 PM)Leanne Wrote:  What makes a poem good?

Learning to write them instead of wasting time with the same old stupid questions.

I don't think there is a more important question in the writing of poetry than "what makes a poem good?"

An old friend of mine dedicated his life to answering that question and even wrote this short manual to help others:

http://www.the-rathouse.com/files/prosody.pdf

Thanks, that's a window that will stay open a good while.

10,000 hours of practice makes you an expert. Whether it's good is subjective.