Here goes nothing...as I make this first post I'm reminded of a T.V. show I used to watch as a kid called Hogan's Heroes and like Sergeant Scholtz used to day, "I know nothing"

edit 1

WORDS
They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment words of strife
Words that impale words that are trite
Creative words so cunning and coy
Pregnant with meaning or empty and void

Words don’t have energy, power or force
Til they’re seen or spoken or given a voice
Just letters on a page til the moment they’re heard
At second glance--I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
A loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief

Think before you speak or so we’ve been told
Wonderful advice from those who’ve grown old
Given because they know all too well
Words can empower or hurt like hell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And heart’s aren’t bulletproof they’re easily pierced
So choose your words wisely their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Quote:original

WORDS

They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment, words of strife
Words that impale you, words that are trite
Words that are creative, cunning and coy
Chock full of meaning, or empty and void

Words don’t have power or energy or force
Until they’re seen, until they’re spoken, until they’re given a voice
They’re just constructs of letters, til they’re spoken and heard
At second glance, I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas, the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
And a loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief

Think before you speak, or so we’ve been told
Very good advice from those who’ve grown old
Given by people who know all too well
Words have the power to cast a dark spell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And the heart’s not impenetrable, it’s easily pierced
So choose your words wisely, for their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Hi Kat, nice to see you posting after some really thoughtful critiques -- thanks for those!

From this poem it's evident that you have a natural ear for rhythm, which can be improved by learning about meter. Without music to hide any flaws, poetry really needs meter to make sure the rhymes fall in the right places.

(07-20-2014, 06:57 AM)KatBrown Wrote:  Here goes nothing...as I make this first post I'm reminded of a T.V. show I used to watch as a kid called Hogan's Heroes and like Sergeant Scholtz used to day, "I know nothing"

WORDS

They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment, words of strife
Words that impale you, words that are trite
Words that are creative, cunning and coy -- the repetition gets a bit much here -- my suggestion would be "creative words, so cunning and coy"
Chock full of meaning, or empty and void -- "chock full" is an idiom that's out of place here; it would be nice to see something else

Words don’t have power or energy or force -- "energy" gives you a syllable too many here, with an odd emphasis. You can fix this by rearranging it to: "Words don't have energy, power or force"
Until they’re seen, until they’re spoken, until they’re given a voice -- and this line is just too long -- you could try "til" instead to fix it a little, but your next couple of lines are running long as well and you're losing the rhythm
They’re just constructs of letters, til they’re spoken and heard
At second glance, I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas, the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
And a loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief -- this stanza works nicely -- it could be tighter but it's ok to leave it alone until you get more of a handle on how meter works

Think before you speak, or so we’ve been told
Very good advice from those who’ve grown old
Given by people who know all too well
Words have the power to cast a dark spell -- dangerously close to cliche territory

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And the heart’s not impenetrable, it’s easily pierced
So choose your words wisely, for their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

(07-20-2014, 07:11 AM)Leanne Wrote:  Hi Kat, nice to see you posting after some really thoughtful critiques -- thanks for those!

From this poem it's evident that you have a natural ear for rhythm, which can be improved by learning about meter. Without music to hide any flaws, poetry really needs meter to make sure the rhymes fall in the right places.

(07-20-2014, 06:57 AM)KatBrown Wrote:  Here goes nothing...as I make this first post I'm reminded of a T.V. show I used to watch as a kid called Hogan's Heroes and like Sergeant Scholtz used to day, "I know nothing"

WORDS

They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment, words of strife
Words that impale you, words that are trite
Words that are creative, cunning and coy -- the repetition gets a bit much here -- my suggestion would be "creative words, so cunning and coy"
Chock full of meaning, or empty and void -- "chock full" is an idiom that's out of place here; it would be nice to see something else

Words don’t have power or energy or force -- "energy" gives you a syllable too many here, with an odd emphasis. You can fix this by rearranging it to: "Words don't have energy, power or force"
Until they’re seen, until they’re spoken, until they’re given a voice -- and this line is just too long -- you could try "til" instead to fix it a little, but your next couple of lines are running long as well and you're losing the rhythm
They’re just constructs of letters, til they’re spoken and heard
At second glance, I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas, the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
And a loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief -- this stanza works nicely -- it could be tighter but it's ok to leave it alone until you get more of a handle on how meter works

Think before you speak, or so we’ve been told
Very good advice from those who’ve grown old
Given by people who know all too well
Words have the power to cast a dark spell -- dangerously close to cliche territory

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And the heart’s not impenetrable, it’s easily pierced
So choose your words wisely, for their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Cool! I'm gonna grab these tips and rework the piece and see how it turns out. Thanks for the feedback!

Words mostly fall on deaf ears.

(07-20-2014, 08:40 AM)Qdeathstar Wrote:  Words mostly fall on deaf ears.

This is not valid critique and you know it. Are you hearing me?
Mod

Yes, i hear you. I was unaware that every post i made had to be a critique...


My critique of the poem is that it's conclusion is wrong. Words are only a third as important as people claim them to be. If the conclusion of a piece is wrong, why continue?

I know the "wrong" of the poem is just my opinion, but so would any critique I offer.

(07-20-2014, 07:35 PM)Qdeathstar Wrote:  Yes, i hear you. I was unaware that every post i made had to be a critique...


My critique of the poem is that it's conclusion is wrong. Words are only a third as important as people claim them to be. If the conclusion of a piece is wrong, why continue?

I know the "wrong" of the poem is just my opinion, but so would any critique I offer.

No,no...you shouldn't worry. If you want to POST ANYTHING you can go into Discussion or the Sewer. Crit forums are for crit of the poem. That's all. Your comments are always worthy, which is why I said "and you know it"
Best,
tectak

To Leanne and tectak, thank you for your feedback. I am presently working on the revisions and hope to post an updated version later today. tectak, punctuation is my Achilles and something I have to get better at, but I guess I always thought when things were in a list they had to be separated by commas. Turns out when I removed them my auto correct didn't have a nervous breakdown at all. Then I read further in the poem and realized I had comma'd the poor thing to death. Leanne, I adopted almost all of the changes you recommended save one. I couldn't find a word picture to express the sentiment I was trying to express that I liked better than "power to cast a dark spell" so for now until I think of something it will remain, but even when I wrote it I was concerned about the cliche factor...
Qdeathstar, I respect your right to disagree with my premise and would be shocked if every or even many agree with everything we post as it is our life experience that fuel what we write and your life experience informs your conclusions about my piece through different lenses. I'm Okay with that. Thank you for posting!

Okay, so here's my revised version and Leanne it turns out I did come up with an alternate choice for "power to cast a dark spell"

WORDS
They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment words of strife
Words that impale words that are trite
Creative words so cunning and coy
Pregnant with meaning or empty and void

Words don’t have energy, power or force
Til they’re seen or spoken or given a voice
Just letters on a page til the moment they’re heard
At second glance--I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
A loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief

Think before you speak or so we’ve been told
Wonderful advice from those who’ve grown old
Given because they know all too well
Words can empower or hurt like hell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And heart’s aren’t bulletproof they’re easily pierced
So choose your words wisely their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

(07-21-2014, 01:43 AM)KatBrown Wrote:  Okay, so here's my revised version and Leanne it turns out I did come up with an alternate choice for "power to cast a dark spell"

WORDS
They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment words of strife
Words that impale words that are trite
Creative words so cunning and coy
Pregnant with meaning or empty and void

Words don’t have energy, power or force
Til they’re seen or spoken or given a voice
Just letters on a page til the moment they’re heard
At second glance--I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
A loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief "One" is singular, "they" is plural

Think before you speak or so we’ve been told
Wonderful advice from those who’ve grown old
Given because they know all too well
Words can empower or hurt like hell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And heart’s aren’t bulletproof they’re easily pierced
So choose your words wisely their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Removing punctuation COMPLETELY is not the same as punctuating CORRECTLY. Yes, you DO normally need to seperate items in a list with commas, if they are "items". A shopping list, for example. If you are listing phrases, then a semicolon will usually do it. If the phrase turns out to be a complete sentence then a period denotes its end. If you READ your poem out loud you will hear where pauses fall. Punctuation has another use, other than the formal structural purpose. You can use a comma, semicolon and period to denote where pauses should fall in order to CLARIFY YOUR INTENT. If you read at a fixed pace, or beat, then you can approximate like this. Comma-one count; Semicolon-two count; colon-three count; period-to suit dramatic purpose.
Line breaks are NOT punctuation and should not be used in that way. Capitalising line starts is retro, faux-poetic and was never a good idea even in the 19th century,confusing and simply without purpose.
One final point, if you write in "list form" it will sound like a list; which can get quite boring and sterile...so make sure your list is interesting and diverse. Stylistically, and with skill, a list can be written which leaves no reqirement for punctuation. It is not easy. In your piece, anomalies are rife.

Words that impale words
til the moment they’re heard at second glance
make believe a loved one’s last thoughts
those who’ve grown old given because they know
Best,
tectak

(07-21-2014, 05:37 PM)tectak Wrote:  

(07-21-2014, 01:43 AM)KatBrown Wrote:  Okay, so here's my revised version and Leanne it turns out I did come up with an alternate choice for "power to cast a dark spell"

WORDS
They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment words of strife
Words that impale words that are trite
Creative words so cunning and coy
Pregnant with meaning or empty and void

Words don’t have energy, power or force
Til they’re seen or spoken or given a voice
Just letters on a page til the moment they’re heard
At second glance--I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
A loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief "One" is singular, "they" is plural

Think before you speak or so we’ve been told
Wonderful advice from those who’ve grown old
Given because they know all too well
Words can empower or hurt like hell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And heart’s aren’t bulletproof they’re easily pierced
So choose your words wisely their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Removing punctuation COMPLETELY is not the same as punctuating CORRECTLY. Yes, you DO normally need to seperate items in a list with commas, if they are "items". A shopping list, for example. If you are listing phrases, then a semicolon will usually do it. If the phrase turns out to be a complete sentence then a period denotes its end. If you READ your poem out loud you will hear where pauses fall. Punctuation has another use, other than the formal structural purpose. You can use a comma, semicolon and period to denote where pauses should fall in order to CLARIFY YOUR INTENT. If you read at a fixed pace, or beat, then you can approximate like this. Comma-one count; Semicolon-two count; colon-three count; period-to suit dramatic purpose.
Line breaks are NOT punctuation and should not be used in that way. Capitalising line starts is retro, faux-poetic and was never a good idea even in the 19th century,confusing and simply without purpose.
One final point, if you write in "list form" it will sound like a list; which can get quite boring and sterile...so make sure your list is interesting and diverse. Stylistically, and with skill, a list can be written which leaves no reqirement for punctuation. It is not easy. In your piece, anomalies are rife.

Words that impale words
til the moment they’re heard at second glance
make believe a loved one’s last thoughts
those who’ve grown old given because they know
Best,
tectak

Back to the drawing board. Thanks!

Firstly I liked your introduction, it made me giggle. I don't really know the technicalities of poetry so if it's okay then I'm just going to comment on how your poem made me feel. I really enjoyed your style of writing, the last two lines are my favourite and I feel drive home your point succinctly. Your poem made me reflect upon my day and think about all the things I said. More than anything I like writing that makes me think (which is the whole point of any writing I guess). I'd like to read more of your work I felt like it has a lot more to it than other cliched first attempts at poetry involving unoriginal sentiments about unrequited love. I hope my thoughts serve as encouragement for you!

hi kat klump and thanks for your feedback elsewhere.

i copy and pasted your edit to the opening post so they can be easily compared.

some of the lines give the chance for some good wordplay but without punctuation it can't be done, i think the poem would benefit for some. (some poems work well without but i'm not sure that's the case here. ) so far it's a good edit but i think it still needs more, trim away what you don't really need and look at shortening lines with lots of filler. well done so far and thanks for the read.

(07-20-2014, 06:57 AM)KatBrown Wrote:  edit 1

WORDS

They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment words of strife
Words that impale words that are trite re a remark above; if you put a comma after the second words (not after impale) you'd give the impression of impaling trite words, just a suggestion
Creative words so cunning and coy this is a better line as it breaks up the word syndrome
Pregnant with meaning or empty and void good word change

Words don’t have energy, power or force
Til they’re seen or spoken or given a voice
Just letters on a page til the moment they’re heard i think the meters a little off, a suggestion would be [just letter's on pages until they are heard]
At second glance--I guess they are more than words feels a little wordy, i preferred the original line without the [just]

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas the welcomed surprise a suggestion for the meter would be [the rendered idea, the welcome surprise]
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
A loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief

Think before you speak or so we’ve been told
Wonderful advice from those who’ve grown old
Given because they know all too well
Words can empower or hurt like hell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And heart’s aren’t bulletproof they’re easily pierced
So choose your words wisely their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain

Quote:original

WORDS

They’re just words, right?
Words of endearment, words of strife
Words that impale you, words that are trite
Words that are creative, cunning and coy
Chock full of meaning, or empty and void

Words don’t have power or energy or force
Until they’re seen, until they’re spoken, until they’re given a voice
They’re just constructs of letters, til they’re spoken and heard
At second glance, I guess they are more than words

They’re the start of a thing or its demise
The rendering of ideas, the welcomed surprise
The wishing on a star where we enter make believe
And a loved one’s last thoughts as they find sweet relief

Think before you speak, or so we’ve been told
Very good advice from those who’ve grown old
Given by people who know all too well
Words have the power to cast a dark spell

And seldom do words fall on deaf ears
And the heart’s not impenetrable, it’s easily pierced
So choose your words wisely, for their impact remains
A source of inspiration or an indelible stain