.

I bought a full metal jacket off the widow of a vet,
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet.
They’re mostly forgotten, those baby killers and more,
from that vietnam thing, not even a real war.
In that police action only fifty thousand died,
but twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all though we can be so blind,
in wars of attrition it's just a matter of time!




-Erthona

(04-09-2014, 01:08 AM)Erthona Wrote:  .

I bought a full metal jacket off the widow of a vet,
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet.
They’re mostly forgotten, those baby killers and more,
from that vietnam thing, not even a real war.
In that police action only fifty thousand died,
but twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all though we can be so blind,
in wars of attrition it's just a matter of time!




-Erthona

Dale, a full metal jacket is not one that can be worn. It is not a bullet proof vest or flak jacket. It's a type of bullet (soft lead with a hard alloy jacket). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet

(04-09-2014, 01:28 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 01:08 AM)Erthona Wrote:  .

I bought a full metal jacket off the widow of a vet, Shome mishtake here, shurely Quite apart from the strangely (deliberate?) mismatch of the bullet to a real "wearable" jacket (?) we here in Blighty have to further consider, er, in view of the former, whether you mean a dog-doc or a veteran
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet. Nuff said
They’re mostly forgotten, those baby killers and more,
from that vietnam thing, not even a real war. ...but it is a real country, so Vietnam. I suspect some may disagree about the "reality" or otherwise of this war
In that police action only fifty thousand died,
but twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all though we can be so blind,
in wars of attrition it's just a matter of time! Sorry Dale...but there is a credibility gap which I cannot bridge. Help.[b]




-Erthona

[b]Dale, a full metal jacket is not one that can be worn. It is not a bullet proof vest or flak jacket. It's a type of bullet (soft lead with a hard alloy jacket). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet

Chris wrote:"Dale, a full metal jacket is not one that can be worn. It is not a bullet proof vest or flak jacket. It's a type of bullet (soft lead with a hard alloy jacket)" Well duh! It's--a--play--on--words--, Please see next line Jeez, I knew some people think I am incredible dense and lacking in sense, but I didn't think you guys did.
Oh well, if you think it too,
maybe it's true!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

It is a real country, but it was not a real war (yes, tell that to the 58 thousand men who died in "not a real war"). Thus a small "v" for not a real war, "vietnam war"="vietnam thing"

"Maybe we’ve got them all though we can be so blind,
in wars of attrition it's just a matter of time!"

Which part of this satire of the "Fondas" do you not get. This is spoken by the voice of those who considered these soldiers as baby killers and spat on them when they returned. The peace at any cost nicks.

I'd rather he be a slave,
than see my boy in the grave.
______________________________________________________________

I guess I am a complete fool,
but to old to go back to school.

Maybe you'd like the old version better.

I bought a full metal jacket, off the widow of a vet,
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet.
Thank God they’re forgotten, those baby killers -more.
from that police action thing, not even a real war.
In that police action only fifty thousand died,
and then thankfully twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all by now,
though we can afford to be blind,
in wars of attrition it’s just a matter of time!

I don't think I took any information out, just tried to make it more singsong, to fit the obtuseness of the speaker. maybe I should keep the original version, it was easily understood by a friend of mine who is the former Dean of a University English department, and my ex-wife who is a fairly bright women, the only exception being her lapse in judgement when she decided to marry me. I could have told her it wouldn't work!

death is so much harder when brought about by friends. Et tu Brute?

dale

(04-09-2014, 03:07 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Chris wrote:"Dale, a full metal jacket is not one that can be worn. It is not a bullet proof vest or flak jacket. It's a type of bullet (soft lead with a hard alloy jacket)" Well duh! It's--a--play--on--words--, Please see next line Jeez, I knew some people think I am incredible dense and lacking in sense, but I didn't think you guys did.
Oh well, if you think it too,
maybe it's true!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

It is a real country, but it was not a real war (yes, tell that to the 58 thousand men who died in "not a real war"). Thus a small "v" for not a real war, "vietnam war"="vietnam thing"

"Maybe we’ve got them all though we can be so blind,
in wars of attrition it's just a matter of time!"

Which part of this satire of the "Fondas" do you not get. This is spoken by the voice of those who considered these soldiers as baby killers and spat on them when they returned. The peace at any cost nicks.

I'd rather he be a slave,
than see my boy in the grave.
______________________________________________________________

I guess I am a complete fool,
but to old to go back to school.

Maybe you'd like the old version better.

I bought a full metal jacket, off the widow of a vet,
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet.
Thank God they’re forgotten, those baby killers -more.
from that police action thing, not even a real war.
In that police action only fifty thousand died,
and then thankfully twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all by now,
though we can afford to be blind,
in wars of attrition it’s just a matter of time!

I don't think I took any information out, just tried to make it more singsong, to fit the obtuseness of the speaker. maybe I should keep the original version, it was easily understood by a friend of mine who is the former Dean of a University English department, and my ex-wife who is a fairly bright women, the only exception being her lapse in judgement when she decided to marry me. I could have told her it wouldn't work!

death is so much harder when brought about by friends. Et tu Brute?

dale

Coincidences...don't you just love'em. There am I cleverly muddling maths to imply the onset of memory loss and there you are cleverly playing the FMJ pun....sheeesh, how weird is that? And what's more neither of us realised! Well, stone me!
Best,
tectak

Evidently we've gotten to subtle for ourselves. That present quite the conundrum! At least I think it does, I'm no longer sure!


Dale

[quote='Erthona' pid='160217' dateline='1396980441']
Chris wrote:"Dale, a full metal jacket is not one that can be worn. It is not a bullet proof vest or flak jacket. It's a type of bullet (soft lead with a hard alloy jacket)" Well duh! It's--a--play--on--words--, Please see next line Jeez, I knew some people think I am incredible dense and lacking in sense, but I didn't think you guys did.
Oh well, if you think it too,
maybe it's true!

Gotcha. I like double entendre. Sorry, I did see the next line, but it still was not clear to me. If the bullet was in him, how (or why) did you buy it? Perhaps something like, you were conned by the widow of a vet into buying a FMJ that was still inside her husband.

Yes, I understand your confusion, "how can you be two places at once when you're not anywhere at all". The speaker (not to be confused with the writer), did not buy a bullet. The speaker by saying she buys the jacket is saying she is taking away his honor.
It is generally assumed by the writer that the reader will understand one cannot wear a bullet, and thus he is treating the supposed jacket bought from the widow as a metaphor which represents something like the dead soldiers honor, courage, bravery, and in such a way uses this device to represent the devaluing his sacrifice, just as the anti-war people demonized the returning soldiers, i.e., they stripped them of their honor. These first two lines are completely metaphorical.

I bought a full metal jacket, off the widow of a vet,
it had no holes in it, the bullet was in him yet. (also a pun...yet. Mommy, what's a yet? I don't know dear why. Well I was reading the newspaper and it said a woman had been shot and the bullet was in her yet".)

This is an ironic satire. It is assumed that the reader will know when such is metaphor and such is reality. Readers of "Gulliver's Travels", did not say, "What is this, there are neither giants or little people, what is this Swift person going on about?" Nor did Cervantes wish to make it too clear what he was writing about, for in such situations one can lose one's head, literally.

Just so you will know for future references, the bulk of what I write is general some combination of satire and irony, also the voice you hear in the poem is rarely my voice.

Dale

(04-09-2014, 03:47 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Evidently we've gotten to subtle for ourselves. That present quite the conundrum! At least I think it does, I'm no longer sure!


Dale

To the poem, I especially like

Quote:but twice that many committed suicide.
Maybe we’ve got them all

It's the truth of the ugly matter, though the count may be underestimated.

Yes, the count is...difficult, but I have seen estimates as high as 58,000.


Thankee, me lady,


Dale

(04-09-2014, 06:16 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Yes, the count is...difficult, but I have seen estimates as high as 58,000.


Thankee, me lady,


Dale

Nah, I mean the afterdeaths.

(04-09-2014, 06:59 AM)ellajam Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 06:16 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Yes, the count is...difficult, but I have seen estimates as high as 58,000.


Thankee, me lady,


Dale

Nah, I mean the afterdeaths.

One thing can be assured - it will reach 100% of all participants.

I did therapy with Vietnam Vets (got thrown around a lot), I was told the suicides that had occurred since the war was double that of those killed in the war, or about 100,000. Of course that was around 1990. I worked with this one Vet who lived on a farm out in the country, I think it was about 40 acres. A lot of times at night he would get so paranoid, he'd suit up in full gear, and walk the perimeter of his farm for hours. Anybody I met, who was on the ground had similar stories. The fly boys just had guilt. I think probably 80% of the guys I saw had survivor guilt, that sort of thing leads to a high incident of suicide.


Dale

So by 'bought' you meant 'believed'? I too had trouble understanding.

"One thing can be assured - it will reach 100% of all participants."

That is true, unfortunately it gets there in half the time it normally takes. It's not just Vietnam vets. I have known WWII guys who had been in concentration camps who seemed fine until they got into their later years and then became extremely depressed, in the cases I have known (not a large sampling here) it was always related to the war in some way.


Dale

(04-09-2014, 07:06 AM)milo Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 06:59 AM)ellajam Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 06:16 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Yes, the count is...difficult, but I have seen estimates as high as 58,000.


Thankee, me lady,


Dale

Nah, I mean the afterdeaths.

One thing can be assured - it will reach 100% of all participants.

Don't forget the 2 million civilians murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Cambodian killing fields.

(04-09-2014, 07:28 AM)Erthona Wrote:  "One thing can be assured - it will reach 100% of all participants."

That is true, unfortunately it gets there in half the time it normally takes. It's not just Vietnam vets. I have known WWII guys who had been in concentration camps who seemed fine until they got into their later years and then became extremely depressed, in the cases I have known (not a large sampling here) it was always related to the war in some way.


Dale

when it comes to depression, if it's not the war then it's something else. War seems as good a reason as any.

---

(04-09-2014, 07:29 AM)ChristopherSea Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 07:06 AM)milo Wrote:  

(04-09-2014, 06:59 AM)ellajam Wrote:  Nah, I mean the afterdeaths.

One thing can be assured - it will reach 100% of all participants.

Don't forget the 2 million civilians murdered by the Khmer Rouge in the Cambodian killing fields.

even the ones they let live will die eventually. It could add up to billions!

Mark,

"So by 'bought' you meant 'believed'?"

No. Did I say that say that somewhere?

Thanks for giving it a try,

Dale

---

"even the ones they let live will die eventually. It could add up to billions! "

So I guess you're saying it doesn't matter when you die, just that you will?

Dale

(04-09-2014, 07:38 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Mark,

"So by 'bought' you meant 'believed'?"

No. Did I say that say that somewhere?

Thanks for giving it a try,

Dale

---

"even the ones they let live will die eventually. It could add up to billions! "

So I guess you're saying it doesn't matter when you die, just that you will?

Dale

Are you countering? (It may be too late to die in the French Revolution, btw)

No, I was asking a simple question, "Are you saying it doesn't matter when you die, just that you will?"

I didn't know that you died in the French Revolution. Did you lose your head?


dale