(01-23-2014, 09:30 AM)Leanne Wrote:  "Blemishes are hid by night and every fault forgiven; darkness makes any woman fair" -- you must read Ovid, billy. He was a delightful pervert.

A propos of writing for money, it was the mainspring for many Roman writers: a rich patron, such as Maecenas, was the reason the Horaces and Virgils wrote. But he was a very cultured man himself.

I think some translations really do need some explanatory notes, to make sense of cultural practices. For example, when a Russian aristocrat offers two fingers, he is not saying fuck off, he is reminding someone of the difference in status. You might have been relegated from three fingers.

Sadly, rich men and culture are rare bedfellows these days.

What would one finger mean?

(01-23-2014, 11:21 AM)Leanne Wrote:  Sadly, rich men and culture are rare bedfellows these days.

What would one finger mean?

You're lucky to have bedfellows at all and now you want them rich /and/ cultured?

[ostentatiously not mentioning the fingers]

I'm busy counting feet.

i think it's always gonna be difficult to read poetry in other languages, and i am ambivalent about it. which doesn't mean i don't recognize the importance of non english poetry...

i keep nearly writing poems on immigration... it's an interesting subject for me, the influx of new "cultures".

Every poet should read Boccaccio's Genealogy of the Gentile Gods for the sheer scope of its message and its continued relevance to writing almost 700 years after its conception.

Of course, Boccaccio brings me naturally to thoughts of Chaucer -- and Chaucer wrote in almost an entirely different language.

(01-24-2014, 02:58 AM)clemonz Wrote:  i think it's always gonna be difficult to read poetry in other languages, and i am ambivalent about it. which doesn't mean i don't recognize the importance of non english poetry...

i keep nearly writing poems on immigration... it's an interesting subject for me, the influx of new "cultures".

As to poetry, Pablo Neruda regularly tops the list of favorites, though he wrote in Spanish. A lot depends upon the poet. It is said that Byron's popularity on the continent, results from his stories and themes being easily translatable. But the more important a part the rhymes and metres are, or the poetic devices like alliteration and assonance,
rather than the theme, the harder the translator's task.

With immigration, in London, one might have thought that it would have produced of itself a flowering of new corners in libraries, but no. We do have, though, of course many, many, many foreign novellists and playwrights and poets. In 2014, it is ''in'' to be a foreigner, and I am busy acquiring the robes to go with my username, which I shall now use.

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(01-24-2014, 05:33 AM)Leanne Wrote:  Every poet should read Boccaccio's Genealogy of the Gentile Gods for the sheer scope of its message and its continued relevance to writing almost 700 years after its conception.

Of course, Boccaccio brings me naturally to thoughts of Chaucer -- and Chaucer wrote in almost an entirely different language.

I have read that there is a possibility that Chaucer met Boccaccio. Presumably, intellectual property was less of a thing then.....

I curse my slow reading ability: I am still slowly getting through Nicholas Nickleby......though I love every page, perhaps too much.

I grew up reading Emma Goldman and hating patriotism. From early on I was one of those people that thought the only serious books were foreign. I don't feel that way any more, but I still read more foreign books than American. But then again, America hasn't been around very long compared to other places.

I still don't care for patriotism.

This thread leads me to another thought: why is it language that makes something "foreign"?

To me, Kerouac is foreign and exotic. So is Byron. Removed by distance, culture, time -- the only commonalities are the emotions. That's what links us. Though they may be triggered by different events and situations, emotions are the same the world over, and have been for a pretty damn long time.

I like books by George Dibbern, and by Garry Davis with his world passport.

(01-24-2014, 06:07 AM)Leanne Wrote:  This thread leads me to another thought: why is it language that makes something "foreign"?

To me, Kerouac is foreign and exotic. So is Byron. Removed by distance, culture, time -- the only commonalities are the emotions. That's what links us. Though they may be triggered by different events and situations, emotions are the same the world over, and have been for a pretty damn long time.

It is not only language. We perceive a thing as foreign which is the product of a culture more or less different from our own. Language acts almost as a straight-jacket, I think, guiding us to think in particular ways. Leaving aside the structure, even such things as vocabulary open and close doors. So people joke about the Arabs that they have thousands of words for camels, and sand. So they do. They differentiate where we do not, although we understand readily enough with horses. The British, being an island nation, have used the sea and rivers for transport, commerce war, and survival. A huge number of boaty words are of Scandinavian origin, and we in turn differentiate of these maritime things. I scent another thread in the offing....But you are right about plight and emotions: Ray's Goya pic resonates it depicts a side of humanity, as fresh now, as it was then.

(01-24-2014, 06:44 AM)abu nuwas Wrote:  

(01-24-2014, 06:07 AM)Leanne Wrote:  This thread leads me to another thought: why is it language that makes something "foreign"?

To me, Kerouac is foreign and exotic. So is Byron. Removed by distance, culture, time -- the only commonalities are the emotions. That's what links us. Though they may be triggered by different events and situations, emotions are the same the world over, and have been for a pretty damn long time.

It is not only language. We perceive a thing as foreign which is the product of a culture more or less different from our own. Language acts almost as a straight-jacket, I think, guiding us to think in particular ways. Leaving aside the structure, even such things as vocabulary open and close doors. So people joke about the Arabs that they have thousands of words for camels, and sand. So they do. They differentiate where we do not, although we understand readily enough with horses. The British, being an island nation, have used the sea and rivers for transport, commerce war, and survival. A huge number of boaty words are of Scandinavian origin, and we in turn differentiate of these maritime things. I scent another thread in the offing....But you are right about plight and emotions: Ray's Goya pic resonates it depicts a side of humanity, as fresh now, as it was then.

the past is another country?

meh, completely different phenomena IMHO

"Foreign" does not mean "from another country".

doesn't JUST mean that, but it does, and it's one separate sense.

How can you be a writer if you don't understand context?

(01-24-2014, 07:25 AM)Leanne Wrote:  How can you be a writer if you don't understand context?

i'm confused, are you disagreeing with something i've said? if so, then can you first post what it is you disagree with, i don't mean to complain but i'm stoned and confused about the forum already.

cheers.

Wow, being stoned makes trolls so much more interesting.

That was sarcasm.

i'm not a troll

Never trust a troll

As far as other languages, I've found Spanish and Hispanic art and literature to be the most popular and influential in the U.S. (They don't call them the conquistadors for nothing.)

As far as foreign in general, I mostly prefer the English Romantics for poetry (but thoroughly enjoy a little of Rémy Belleau's oyster praise from time to time), and Italian Renaissance painting, sculpting, and architecture.